Nagi21

Did we ever get a solid answer on the whole 3/2/1 with the jokers, because the rules say the ability is supposed to clarify, but it obviously doesn't.

On 5/14/2021 at 11:28 AM, Thatguy said:

This is what I meant. 

They're an option, but not one that had much effort put in to it as far as balance goes.

I would say Hinamatsu is actually a pretty good leader, if to only have a few tricks on hand to keep in the back pocket.

On 4/29/2021 at 7:43 AM, Roadhouse said:

Cache kitties don't happen with NVB Marcus and that makes a world of difference. Not being able to stone for Onslaught means having to pitch an upgrade for it, and without the defensive upgrades they die.

NVB Marcus runs a more schemey crew using Adze, Bandersnatch, and Wisps. It is a very different playstyle but so so fun.

The main issue I don't see people running Marcus in NVB aside from it being a better ARC crew, is that it plays so very similar to Zoraida, and Zoraida is better by a loooooong barrel.

4 hours ago, Kharnage said:

It was not that third Focus stack that carried Nekima through dark times. I find that, rather than focus stacking, Strategies have a much larger impact on her viability, namely those that reward aggressive alpha plays and mobility, which GG2 definitely does. No more Public Enemies and no more Recover Evidence means that folks can't just slow ball in their own deployment and expect to win. You've got to cross the center line and take non-killing actions, which Nephilim are just naturally good at (as well as denying)
Beyond that, a lot of the "soft" stances that came with the new errata and GG2 benefit Nephilim. While our summoned Terror Tots no longer can run strategies for us, they were always meant to turn into Young Nephilim and just kill things anyway. This also means that the plethora of summoners who sought to overpower us with AP-dumping (Break the Line would have been RIFE with summoners without that rule) can't, and losing their cheapy resummonables doesn't work as a point scoring method, so rushing with focused Matures and Nekima into whatever they were hoping to score with is quite strong. With the new Toward and Away rulings, Shove Aside is now a cone of movement that I can choose from, making our in melee offensive movement way more adaptable. And of course, "Another" back to the way God intended means that Nekima can take her own Enraged by Insolence attacks, placing the heat back on Nekima rather than her crew, which is where I want it, as she's the most likely to absorb and tank. 
What Nekima does that Titania doesn't, is synergize with the Nephilim keyword, move a potential 18 inches a turn while taking attacks with Frenzied Charge, and rob AP with 2 inch reach. Titania's great, and she's got a high win rate for a reason, but she is not a better Nekima.

I'm not as confident as you are in the new GG2.  Sure the strategies are slightly more favored, but claim jump just became significantly harder since NVB lack a decent tank outside of Titania, and Vendetta got nerfed due to the new replace rules.  I expect the gains in possible strat points will be offset by the losses on the scheme side and it'll be similar to GG1.

5 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Interestingly, Leveticus, Parker, Von Schill, and the Viktorias all have sub-50% winrates in the series so far.

So at least in this series, I don't think that holds up.

I mean... by that logic then Leveticus needs a massive buff instead of the nerf he got, but I don't know that you'd survive the rioting trying to argue that 😆

2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Glad you found a faction you enjoy more, just don't see why you have to bash a faction that is performing so well.

True, that is a bad record, but worth keeping in mind MOST masters have below a 50% winrate in the series (since most of the wins are concentrated in a handful of masters).

I mean if you think they're doing well from one event where they are being carried by a singular master, I can't really argue with your logic.  I bash because I've seen the faction fall into the abyss over the last two years to the point where it's an uphill climb unless you want to do some one-trick cheese build i.e. Dreamer.  NVB has gone the way of the Guild.

9 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

So you switched from neverborn because you think they only have 1 viable keyword(which is so demonstrably false it's just willful ignorance at this point)

...to outcasts?

I mean... between Leveticus, Parker, Von Schill, Viktoria, and Zipp, I'm not pigeonholed into one great crew and a handful of mediocre ones and playing with one arm tied behind my back.  But you do you.

11 hours ago, extremor said:

Really? Which rank was Lucius? Which Marcus? Or: where can I get these infos?

According to the info Cackle posted, they went 2-8 combined, with Lucius going winless, which doesn't surprise me in the slightest considering Marcus is an ARC master that likes to paint himself purple to fit in and Lucius is trying to comprehend the details of 5D chess during a hockey game.

2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I wouldn't be too discouraged, Neverborn were/are pretty powerful! For example, last time the relative faction rankings were posted for the World Series, here they were:

1. Explorers 64.92
2. Ressers 58.90
3. Neverborn 57.38
4. Arcanists 55.49
5. Outcasts 53.99
6. Guild 52.40
7. Bayou 51.37
8. Ten Thunders 50.30 

Neverborn were the third highest ranking faction at that time, in a pool with some insanely good players. So I'd say Neverborn can hold their own

Now take the Dreamer and Kharnage games out and let me know what the rankings are 😏

23 hours ago, Ogid said:

Serena is way weaker now and it's going to be a problem when condition removal is needed but the other player can deny Demises (things like Manos or Cooper for example)... but I've never liked a faction relying so hard on a model so maybe now we'll see other models coming or other adjustments where needed (in anohter year, that's the bad part tho...)

This is the problem.  The other factions have options, particularly the ones doing very well, while NVB are pigeonholed into using the one option they have to a problem (see IR, Serena, etc), then get punished for it by getting it removed.  Then we have to deal with those changes for at least a year before anything is fixed (and yes I say fixed, because we had to deal with a legitimately broken Shenlong for how long?).  I switched out of the clusterfuck that is current NVB only because I still had outcast stuff from when I got in back in 1st edition.  If I only had a few NVB crews at this point?  I'd probably be leaving the game rather than reinvesting in an entirely new faction.  I feel bad for the newer people to this game (assuming we have any coming in at this point).

Edit: Didn't mean to post 3 times.  My browser and the website had a stroke.

1 minute ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I don't know if it was pointed out in this thread, but Arcanists aren't doing exceptionally well in the World Series so far (I think Neverborn might be higher, with Titania being a big factor.

You still get two 1/2/3 heals for a single action, now it is just spread out more. I'd be surprised if Serena sees 0 play.

I mean... they must have poor ARC players cause SE USA meta is all ARC killing everyone.  

You get 2 heals with a non-built in trigger for a single action on two different models.  Candy offers more options and the same healing unless you don't have a mask for one stone more.  I expect some early attempts to make Serena work followed by a lot of Candy play.

10 hours ago, Ogid said:

NVB got a few hits this GG, but after looking at others like ARC; I think NVB didn't got the sort sitck this time.

Serena was hit hard; but when condition removal and healing is needed, she is still probably a decent pick (as long as there is no easy way to deny demises for the other crew). We'll see.

Aside from Collette herself, I fail to see how this Errata fixed the fact that ARC have a solution to everything, have 3 massively OP upgrades, and one of the best summoners in the game.

Serena is done.  1/2/3 healing per turn on a Df5/6 hp (even with eternal) does not an 8 stone model make.  Candy is a better option at 9 stones by a long barrel.  I expect most people to start taking the wild child now and that Candy gets nerfed into oblivion next errata since that's now our only healing option.

On 4/22/2021 at 5:22 AM, zeno said:

Don't forget the slam of the nerf coming from the new summoning rules of GG2 as well. 

They really went for the kneecaps this time. Probably wanting players to buy the new stuff and be done with their old toys... 

It's almost like there was one competitive keyword in the faction and people kept playing it vs nonsense like Collette and Sandeep.  Can't play with the old toys if there's no toys that are useful anymore!

On 3/8/2021 at 5:49 AM, Maladroit said:

Something similar was in the FAQ though (From Section 5 on page 4):

6. Blade Rush – Is damage from Blade Rush treated as damage from the Charge Action? a) No. The damage from Blade Rush is generated by the Ability as a result of taking the Action, not the Action itself.

Which leans towards damage from Stampede being treated as from an ability rather than from the action.

Could always say that only applies to Blade Rush (like how some people read the clarifications of "another model" to only apply to Nekima since it's under her ability 🙄), but I'd agree lol.  I just wonder about the Obey implications.

On 3/1/2021 at 8:46 AM, Adran said:

Are you asking if the damage the Blood hunter takes to cause stampede will also cause Black blood damage?

Because that is a no. The damage the blood hunter suffers is from an ability, not from an action or a trigger. 

Likewise if something else stampeded into a blood hunter, the damage from Stampede won't cause black blood damage because it is from the stampede ability  not from the charge action. 

I mean... the charge caused the stampede ability so one could argue the damage suffered is due to the charge action.  Arguably.

On 1/22/2021 at 7:00 AM, Kharnage said:

I originally saw Candy and Teddy and saw them as Annie and Tibbers from League of Legends and was like "this could be a super cool game". 

Not gonna lie, this statement explains so much...

On 1/30/2021 at 9:06 PM, Kotep said:

Does anyone use these models? They look really cool, I just do see a great use for them . 

Anyone use them that can convince me they're worth taking?

I have rarely used them, however there is one situation where I've brought them successfully multiple times.  They are exceptionally good for cost vs armored crews (just armored, not armored + htw + etc or armored + guns), because you can toss them in as cheap black blood bombs to plink away at models.  I'm not saying bring 4, but I've brought multiple to play when I expected armor based models.

On 2/10/2021 at 9:29 AM, whitters said:

Another fun one is a Guilty with "wanted criminal" attached upgrade.

You can shoot it with a Dead Outlaw (after charging forward using "run and gun" of course) to draw a card for the torment ability, trigger "drop it"  for an enemy scheme marker, draw another card for "wanted criminal "while still having the scheme marker to trigger "covetous carvings", "life of crime" or to use for "appraise". Plus points if you include a bayou smuggler for card draw from "carry the loot" when removing an enemy scheme marker.

A bit resource intensive for competitive play but fun.

Follow up question: Are Dead Outlaws actually good?  Cause if so this isn't actually a bad idea to run with.

9 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

Yeah, it's better

Hmm... 3/5/6 vs 3/4/5 with + to damage flips (i.e. focus bonus).  Not saying you're wrong... but you're wrong.  😁

19 hours ago, Kharnage said:

An interesting fighting style does not a good character make. I've never seen someone plot to overthrow someone who made them powerless, and actually do it for more than the first half of the second act of a movie. Nekima is not Scar. She sucked up to her backstabbing sister, plotted for two editions, her sister messed up by, I dunno, letting her live, and someone who lets their "neither can rule while the other lives" prophecy go on with their "I take everything VERY personally" GIANT MURDER DEMON of a sister deserves to be tossed in a plot device pit. Besides, everything that was written about Lilith in 2e made her out to be a very one dimensional angry arrogant individual anyway while Nekima's first person descriptions of the half bloods was very "my lovely children, schemey scheme scheme" and while I don't have a problem with that, I'm surprised you don't.  

I mean... she's really not a good character though.  She's one-dimensional in that either you defer to her, or you get put on her shitlist.  She doesn't hide her schemes well, and you can't really sit there and actually tell me you don't expect either her or Titania to get smacked in the face by the other (and spoiler... Titania is a lot scarier) eventually.  Lilith at least knew the eventuality and took steps to account for it.  Nekima thinks she's going to be something more than a pawn in Titania's game.  If you think otherwise, I'd like to point you in the direction of Diamond's body and the fiasco that ensued.

2 hours ago, Kharnage said:

But Wyrd writers, seriously, I will fight you if you fridge the God Empress. It'd be such a waste of a cool character. She's basically the Malifaux equivalent of Guts from Berserk; somewhat cunning but will just violence her way out of destiny if she has to. 

 Yea... would be so sad for something to happen to the petulant child of the faction so she could be replaced with someone with more depth than "big sword go bonk". 😒  Her greatsword isn't even a greatsword. 

On 2/7/2021 at 9:48 PM, Kharnage said:

I'm sure it's cocky to say it, but it is not that Nekima is competitive, it is simply that I am competitive with Nekima. She's my favorite master to play and I will shamelessly soap box for her because I finally got her as a master and I don't want to watch her get DMH'd by plot, and if Nicodem teaches me anything, it's that hype saves lives. 

I've been saying Wyrd is balancing Neverborn and Nephilim around you for the last year, and nobody wants to listen, even though you are the only one keeping her even remotely relevant.  She's not good unless you are much better than your opponent, in a favorable matchup, and you bring a hyper-optimized list.

Also hype is overrated.  Lilith was plenty hyped in 2e and now we're still waiting for her to come home and fix this fiasco.

On 2/7/2021 at 11:40 PM, ooshawn said:

I honestly don't see where bloodwretch and C. hounds would ever be taken

I've taken hounds before in very specific situations where I wanted some fast and disposable blood bombs.  They do yeoman's work against armor.

10 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Wait, are you saying Silurids are bad? I thought most people agreed they're awesome.

How much terrain do you play with? That can make these types of models a lot worse if you don't have enough terrain.

Oh I'm not saying Silurids are bad, I'm just using them as an example of something that is just mobile and can't stay vs a dedicated attack.  Not bad when the model is a 5 stone runner... very bad when the model is a 7-10 stone minion or master.

A lot of terrain.  The problem isn't usually getting there, the problem is that 3e models are much more survivable vs alpha strike so you take way more as Nephilim than you give once you go in.  Good for attrition crews, bad for Nephilim.

18 hours ago, Kharnage said:

I don't check the Neverborn forums for a bit and I come back to people talking mess about the God Empress Nekima. Shameful! You're all free to play as you see fit, but only peasants don't recognize the greatness.

First off, if you're asking whether or not she's fun to play, I think she is. You can boil down all the masters into some unfun sounding description if you try hard enough (so Hamelin is just a rat themed cancer engine? So Sandeep just summons element midgets? Etc.) and when it comes down to it, effective Nekima play is extremely contingent on whether or not you can play the positioning game on a high level. If you think she is simply a "apply my base to your base, check stats and see who wins" kind of playstyle you will likely not enjoy her or do well with her. You need to know what models are worth stiff arming, what models are worth risking their attacks to splash on, and what models are worth avoiding entirely. With Shove Aside being the real keyword ability between her and the Matures, and the power of Fly with Me, the mobility game is where she shines. If you want to smash bases together, play Peacekeeper Hoffman. If you want to scalpel models from play and score objectives while accepting spankings that hurt them worse than you, play the God Empress. 

Disclaimer; I enjoy peacekeeper Hoffman. 

I mean... Titania took over, Nekima took over, then the whole faction just dropped like a rock.  Seems pretty obvious the leadership is... questionable lol.  

She can be fun, but fun =/= competitive.  I mean you yourself said you had stopped playing your "God Empress" in GG1 because the only thing keeping her viable got nerfed for no reason.  The minions are fun but the crew itself is really quite underwhelming, and very one trick.  They melt into anything that can hold up to min 3 damage or out position them (Rezzers, Arcanists,  Thunders), and their only viable strategy is a BBS bomb then run around and hope they don't get killed before they can lay into something.  They have their good matchups, but they don't punch above their weight anymore because everyone thinks min 3 damage is better than it actually is.  Not to mention Nekima herself is this... hodgepodge of abilities and actions that don't at all synergize with each other.  

There was a reason Nephilim were good in 2e.  Lilith was a beatstick (a better beatstick than 3e Nekima mind you), and had defense, and had positioning tricks.  The whole kit synergized together.  Nekima is literally a heavily nerfed version.  If I wanted to play a scalpel game reliant on positioning, I'd play Lucius or Zoraida (or hell even Dreamer can do that).

On 2/2/2021 at 10:57 AM, Regelridderen said:

Yeah, Malifaux is a game of mobility, so writing off the ‘flying master’ as bottom-tier might not be thought all through. 

It's a game of mobility + survivability.  It doesn't matter how mobile she is if she dies to any kind of reasonable offense (see: Silurids).

Another thing that I'm seeing missed about WtM and why it's not very good, is it isn't good vs. normal summons that summon more than one model (looking at you Sandeep), since not only do you have to yeet a card, but you only get to attack one of the god knows how many things that just appeared on the board.

On 1/15/2021 at 6:27 AM, Passenty said:

Pandora for me is totally bad design. She wrecks all the condtion master like brewmaster or mcmourning making them never takes against nvb particulary in multi-master games. The keyword should work only with stunned and gain buffs elsewhere. On other hand on her own in singel master games she struggles against a lot things:

- ruthless - turns off most of her defensive tech, most crew has either manipulative or terrying for defence. As you declare master before crew selection its easy to counter Dora by most of fractions. For unkown reason the anti-ruthless aura is on a def4 totem which is priority target anyways due to his wp aura.

- most defences like dora trigger+misery, candy stun aura+her trigger dont work against shooting. Ruthless shooters like fuhatsu are very problematic

- while master has some strong abilities like mood swing, shockwave or box opens they have stupid restrictions. Moodswing or Despair's Influence are cool but there is no card draw in the whole keyword, you need to use Ancient Pacts on minions which is bit meh for card draw.  Fears given form and Box open need a 7 to go off,  again in keyword with no card draw. So you either do nothing or get rid of your hand which would be ok If you could for example spam your shockwave to drain opponents hand but for some unknown reason its restriced to once per turn. Why the shockwave needs a 7 is a mystery for me. Some totems have better shockwave then Pandora with lower card needed -compare Master Ap to Research asssiatant ap?

-I completly do not understand why both Pandora and Candy have no melee. First off both have a lot of hostile auras but opponent can just leave them without any effort. Second they both cant charge - they lose a lot of efficiency across games because of it. Candy at least has on your heels trigger on her bonus, Pandora has nothing, mv5 and no unimpendent - she needs to hire a rider each time because of it and it sucks.

Is she unplayable? I dont think so. is she cometetive? Definetly not. Why bother at all when so many things can go wrong when you can take a safe pick with either dreamer or zoraida.

The whole keyword is a missed opportunity in my opion.

Ruthless is an issue for the entire faction, which makes running into TT or the like miserable anyway.  Poltergeist is in a bad spot because if it gets a defensive buff it becomes stupidly good (not that stupid good totems don't exist), but without defensive buffs, the insane supporting buffs never actually get to be used in actual play.  I don't expect Wyrd to make any changes to him though with their current mindset.

Shooting is also an issue for most of the faction, that's just been life as NVB since 1e.

7 for a shockwave isn't that uncommon.  Fears given form isn't really the play you should be making with Pandora since it's just 2 damage and possibly a push.  It could be useful sometimes, but on the times you want to use it you'll almost certainly be saving a 7 for it.  Box open should have a 7 because it's a 14 wp with both damage and condition effect.  Agree on the card draw problem though, but again, that's the faction not the crew.

They have ranged options they can do regardless of being engaged, along with auras to punish, them not having melee really doesn't hurt that much, especially since charge + melee would be shorter than the 10" on self loathing.  I agree there's some wasted AP to get closer when you want to use your shorter range things like Box Opens, but that's not that bad.  Rider does help the crew alot though, usually with Candy.

I mean comparing any crew with Dreamer is just unfair since he's the only thing keeping the faction relevant (which is why most discussions about NVB competitiveness have the qualifier "without Dreamer").  Like I stated before in this thread, Pandora has very few middling matchups.  Either she's very good, or very bad, into whatever your opponent brought.  There are safer picks besides Dreamer (Zoraida and Titania have less matchups they lose hard, but much less they should run away with too), but Pandora has her place, particularly if you can read your opponents pick.  The faction needs work, and Pandora needs work as part of it.

Don't you mean a missed opportunist? XD

You think the new one is bad?  The original metal one has one tiny hoof supporting the entire thing straight up lol.  Nekima has always been a PitA to base.