Therril_83

And while he has his place to help out the WP of a crew, Schill does that so much better!

You do realize Schill only buffs Wp for Morale Duels, right? Sue buffs Wp with no conditions.

I still agree he's a tad expensive and needs an extra AP, but there are uses for Sue.

It ofcourse all depends on what strategy and schemes you pick, and what your opponent's running. But the box isn't that bad from the start. Illuminated are decent both offensively and defensively. Graves is the tricky one to use, I think. Try to use Pacmans.. sorry, Huggys Heed My Voice and Graves Bar's Closed to move enemy models into Graves range to flurry.

Also, what's not to like about Ronin? They're an absolute steal at 5ss, and as mercs for 6ss they're still pretty awesome. Ofc it depends on what you're facing, as does everything.

They ignore terrain when walking/chargin, they can push their cg and make a strike (very good against things that put up obscuring auras for example), they can push even further after landing a strike if they wanto. So in the thick of combat, they can be incredibly fast.

They have a builtin positive on dg, which is great, and they also ignore armor. They can get Df8! and they have Hard to Kill, so they won't go down in one hit. I can't tell you how often I've managed to beat an opponents Ronin to 1Wd and then missed my last attack, only to have them Sepoku, netting 2ss to my opponent and denying me my points for Slaughter or similar.

Can you tell I like them? :-P

http://malifaux.com/Fixes.php

It's all in there.

Perhaps get a pair of dogs in there for grabbing objectives and sacrificing for reactivate on Lucius?

Just theoryfauxing though, as I've not yet tried Lucius.

a 6ss beatstick with 1ss of control.

Haha, that's one of the best descriptions of a model I've heard

And perhaps Tannen could be a suggested topic for an episode of your podcast? Would be awesome to hear some of your thoughts on how to use him and in which machups and so on.

Great paintjob! Looks awesome.

And I'm also really liking that floor. Did you do it yourself or is it premade from somewhere?

I've not tried Tannen yet, but I think he will be quite hard to use effectively without dying very fast. He'll probably annoy the crap out of your opponent and cause all kinds of trouble if you manage to get him in and survive, but I don't see how I would do it personally, so I haven't bothered trying it yet until I learn the rest of the crew better.

Graves I've proxied a couple of times and I'm not fully sold on him. His board control in Bar's Closed is pretty good, both early game to boost up the movement of your own crew, and later to mess with your opponents positioning. And Show Ya The Door is just so much fun to use.

However, I do feel that him having Flurry instead of Melee Expert is a bit of a letdown, but I guess that's what the learning curve is for him. Learn how to use the rest of your crew (via Huggys Obey or Beckoners Come Hither for example) or his own Bar's Closed to move models into his melee so he can flurry them.

Depleted.. I'm very dissapointed in these guys. You'd think they are hard to kill and great to spread brilliance and whatnot. But they're not either of the two. They die very quickly, and you need a crow-trigger to spread any brilliance when they die.

Had they exploded without the trigger, I think I would've liked them.. But I've stopped taking them because I can't figure out what to use them for. They are fairly quick though, I have to give them that, with smart use of their push towards a brilliant model. And within sight of Huggy, they are significant. So I suppose you could use them to take objectives.. but there are better options for cheap, quick objectivegrabbers in Neverborn and Ten Thunders alike.

Illuminated seem to get alot of bad press on these boards, but I like them. They have a solid statline and with Brillshaper they can be somewhat flexible for what the situation demands. Also, they are the only ones that don't care when Huggy saps them for 1Wd at the end of turn 1 or 2 since they regenerate.

And I don't think I need to mention the Beckoners.. Just watch out for stuff that's so fast/long ranged that they can attack you without risking brilliance. I play alot against von Schill and he one shots them from 22" away.

I only wish I had a good use for Lynch himself.. he's a decent gunslinger and objective grabber, but I'm always hesitant to put him out there. I think I need to learn to be a bit more brave with him and test out his own capabilities more. The thing that saddens me a little is what I read about him before he was released. I thought he would be a card and hand manipulating master that messes with your opponent. But I find Dead Man's Hand does more good for the enemy than it does for you, and he really doesn't do anything else with cards than that.

Anyway, I think those are my views on the Dark Debts models so far, I haven't been using them overly much though. I'd be happy to hear if someone else has good tricks and uses for the depleted and more reasons why people don't like Illuminated.

oh, and I keep wishing I could obey my own models each time I activate Huggy, wouldn't it be awesome!? *devil*

If you look at what Thaarup asked and what Ratty responded to that question, it does indeed look like Ratty implied that actions that result in movement effects are covered by the Menace spell.

6. What constitute a "moving action"* - as per the "menace" spell? I can see what are "general move actions" (move, charge and jump) but does it affect other actions ("non general movement actions" ) like Dr. Mcmornings "Scalpel Slingin" and others like that?

Scalpel Slingin will now work as it is now a Place not a Push, since the Errata on Push into Base to Base... however Pushes that state a distance still count as movement effects.

Tharup asks "is an action that generates a movement effect (example X) covered by menace?"

Ratty replies "Action X is no longer a movement effect, but others are"

I see what you mean that Ratty didn't actually cover other movement actions. You could say he simply said "The example you provided isn't relevant" and stopped there, implying nothing, answereing nothing and a sentance absolutely worth nothing in this thread. But the inclusion of the word "now" does give his sentence meaning, in that he actually says "The example you provided isn't relevant any longer, but it does apply to other effects"

I do believe Ratty could've stopped this whole thread from moving beyond one page if he had used more than a short sentence that didn't completely answer the question.. it is rather unfortunate that he didn't.

The movement actions covered by the book, aptly named General Movement Actions, are the ones that each and every single model in the entire game has access to. There is a whole buttload of other actions that provide movement (Driven By Purpose, Run Through to name a few. And look at Marionette's Pull Strings, it't not push or place, but "move".). Some of those actions could easily be called move actions, because they are actions that provide movement. They aren't available to everyone though, so not general.

I'm not saying this is so, because simply, it's not defined.

One thing you could try is using magnetic paint underneath the forest floor texture (like sand and grass), and have your trees and bushes magnetized so that they stick to the board but are also removeable. It's a nice way of having removeable trees without leaving any tree-sockets or something on the terrain piece when they are removed.

The forests where I've tried this, I've left small areas without sand where my trees are placed, so that the magnets get a stronger bond to the magnetic paint, but either using a thicker layer of that paint underneath, or stronger magnets than I use, you should be just fine with applying sand and grass over the magnetic paint and placing your trees and bushes on top.

The only thing that still makes me frown a bit on this interpretation is the clarifications we've had regarding Strike Actions (it was mostly discussed together with Alps I believe). Not all actions that contains Strikes (like Charge or Mounted Combat) are Strike Actions. Only the actual (1) Strike is a Strike Action and takes wounds from Alps.

But there is nothing that is called a Move Action in the rules, so the same interpretation cannot be made here. So I can only see the options to either assume that Wyrd means General Move Action, or we can derive from Rattys earlier response in the thread like I did in my previous post. I think I'm leaning towards the latter.

Expanding on why Link doesn't go away:

The doppleganger looses the ability Link after the closing phase first turn (unless she mimics it again). But the effect of Link has a stated end time (when they are not in base contact at the end of the turn), so while doppleganger loses the ability, the effect stays on.

I know and understand that push-into-base is now a place, and place isn't movement.

I also have no issue with "movement effects", what is considered a "movement effect" is perfectly clear on pg35. But again, what causes this question from me is the word "Action" (which is, again, capitalized, in the spell). The RM only contains what is considered general movement actions, not what defines a movement action (if it does, I've missed it, pg reference would be appreciated).

It seems we could derive from Rattys response earlier in the thread that a movement action is any and all actions performed by the model itself that contains a movement effect as part of the action. And pre-erata this would have included Scalpel Slinging, but since this is now a placement effect it does not any longer.

Can I get comments in favour or against this view?

So a model affected by Menace could not walk or charge, neither could it use Menace or Come Hither, or Quick Retreat. It could use triggers like Next Target or Reposition, because they are not actions. And it could be lured, since that is not the models' own action.

@DaemonChild; Would that not be similar to the "General Move Action" Charge? You move and then in addition make a strike (with bonus flip on damage)?

But yes it would be nice to know if all actions/spells that included some kind of movement effect would constitute a move Action of some kind?

What makes charge a very clear case is that it is defined in the rule book as a general move action, so being forbidden to use move actions couldn't possibly allow the use of anything mentioned there. I would also think it's fairly clear that things like Driven by Purpose (suffer 1wd, push 3") is a clear move action, it's an action and all it does is move you. But is "move action" any kind of action the contains moving as part of what it does?

As per Rattys answere regarding scalpel slinging, I would assume that the spell is meant to forbid any kind of movement that is caused by the model itself. But actually states pretty clearly "movement Action", which is what makes me unsure.

I'm a fan of Df(:masks) Dissapear that Lilith has. I don't think I would like it as much on another model, but on a model that already has the highest unbuffed Defense in the game, to be able to make sure you miss the first attack and receive -2Cb for all other attacks against her I think is massive.

Hold on.. Menace states "..may not take move Actions", the word "Action" even being in capital, to me seems it would imply Actions that specifically move you. Not actions that has an additional effect of also moving you. Is this wrong then?

For example, if I cast Menace on a Guild Guard, could that Guild Guard in his turn then cast Menace himself? Could he not cast it, because there is a move involved in the effect of the spell, or could he cast it, he just doesn't perform the moving part of the spell himself?

I like to think about it as a debt needing to be payed. You need to pay 1 general AP to get rid of the slow. If you recieve slow during your activation when you still have general AP to spend, you will lose it right away. If you receive slow when you've already spent your AP, or outside of the activation, you will pay the AP next time you activate.

So far I have not come across a situation where this point of view does not work, but I also have not played with slow overly much. I suspect I will find possible errors when I start playing McHamish :-)

Yeah, that's pretty annoying - you could hide them behind other models however - 2 x 30mm bases, or 1 bigger base...

This is very true, and something I believe quite alot of players don't think about. Lilith ignores terrain for LoS, but not other models, nor spells or effects.

So in the case of Wastrels, hide them behind other models, or using the Torakages smokebombs or similar, and then secret passage away as much as you want.

In the V2 PDF, the Essence of Power does have the last sentence "Link ends if the two models are not in base contact at the Start Closing Phase."

Strange if your card says v2, but doesn't contain that bit..

Ignoring the fact that Ht1 is not enough to block LoS for those models, like Ausplosions said, Augmented jump gives Von Schill flight, but fligh does not let you ignore LoS when charging (or at all, really). You need the ability Diving Charge to do that, which some Nephilim and Misaki have.

But von Schill could use Augmented Jump to gain flight, then use his Nimble to go across the wall, and then charge. Though I don't see why he would ever willingly go into melee with Lady J, but that's not the topic here

I've had the same come up on Nino, and we reasoned the same way. His Cg stat is "-" therefore he moves that far, ie not at all.

The spell is quite clear in what happens. You push your Wk (or Cg if you are brilliant) towards the casting model. It's not optional, it's not a choice of "up to yout Wk/Cg" or anything.

If you use Come Hither on a brilliant model with no Cg-stat, you made a mistake (unless you only want to move the Beckoner forward ofcourse), as simple as that.

I believe also that Photobucket has an option to link thumbnails of the pictures that are clickable links to larger versions of each picture. That's pretty neat for forums, as it doesn't bog down the loading of a thread with big pictures, but still allows you to keep the full size of the originals.

Personally I use picasa and it's builtin editor and just shrink the pictures slightly, also removing all the dead, white space around the minis, since that's not really interesting.

She can definetly target herself with Sweets, just as Marful and the others have said.

She is fun, definetly, just a tad too expensive for what she does. I'd had hired her as often as I do Kade if she had been 6 aswell.

Her ability to heal and to make models hit themselves are ace. Df7 is nothing to sneese at either. For it's just that I rarely get her to do enough to justify paying 8. I still take her for fun now and again though.

People usually say that the kids are extra good with Pandora, but I actually think they aren't. Most importantly because you can't use Pacify/Incite when you play them with Pandora; you want Pandora to use that, not the kids. Kade doesn't really do much in terms of Wp-duels, Candy can atleast cast Self Loathing to trigger a Wp resist duel.

I was about to suggest "attaching" the effigy to a henchman, but checked the rules for it first and it requires you to nominate a leader, so it won't work.

In a brawl though, you could attach the effigy to the other master beside Collette if you wanted to.

I know I would have liked to see a trap or two in his sprue.. but I guess I'll have to run with two empty bases until they are released.

Really well done!

I especially like that her hair is fiery too.