E.T.A. Hoffman

Not sure how I missed it lol.

I'm unsure of how this works. The scoprius creep along ability says, "immediately, move this model up to its wk towards target friendly model in Line of Sight" So it's a move, not a walk or a push. So it's slowed by terrain I'd assume. But I'm confused where it says towards. Towards are always straight lines directly towards the target, right? Then does it stop when it hits an object, like a push would, or does it walk around it like the way bells work (expect they say just end as close as possible). Was the ability suppose to be like a push in every way expect it doesn't ignore severe terrain? Seems odd to me, otherwise why not just call it a push?

I think the point here is any Mei Feng players could decided, hey I'm just gunna flip some cards. Sure, they might be good, they might be bad, but I got some good cardes in my hand, I feel safe milling a little to see the lose ones maybe go. I also can see a player, at the 2nd to last turn of a game during a tourney when the clocks getting low and knows that extra rounds would hurt him when he's winning already, could use this ability to just stall. But these aren't huge cases. I dont expect it to really be a crisis. Its just not a good mechanic. I saw an issue on the scorpious card too among others. I think there's a balance issue with the Outcast emissary versus the others. Overall, I don't feel like the book was tested well enough. I dont recall even see the open beta for it.

I saw plenty of Levi at Adepticon, Nova, and Gencon. So that's my data. And what I said about summoning didn't mean just his summoning but all summoning. I think across the board summoning should be changed. At least in next edition whenever it happens. There's no way you could make that change now without ending the world for some people.

This ability just mechanically is dumb. I can't understand why Wyrd made it. Honestly, it comes off as lazy, not hey this a cool fun thing we made up.

And hands off Levi! He must stay broken so we, Outcasts, can torment others easily When did it get uncivil? I HATE YOU MODERATOR! You take all my funs! JK!LOL!#ILUVMODS/NervousLaugh Lol, what do you mean? We have DAW! and Schill! Honestly, what I've noticed playing Levi is that people let him do whatever he wants I think because they fear him too much. For instance, do you have any idea how few people will use a SS to put his damage (from gun) at a negative flip?! This is a great counter and hardly anyone uses it. But, I do think levi does just too many things. He's got great melee, the best summoning (it works off of killing so its arguably the most efficient), excellent range support, nearly impossible to kill without running specific hard counters which means you knew you were going to face him, the largest hiring pool and thus the best answers to almost every scheme and strategy, the most mobility of any master (he can teleport 10" to a model, Ashes and Dust, at no cost to anyone except he can't make a waif but that can really be worth the trade and not to mention he unburies next to waifs who if you deploy around the board means he can be anywhere), and if you set it up right can do a major card draw turn 1 and 2. If his teleport was taken away, the 10" one I think that would really do a lot to fix him. He's already got major board control with the burying. If he couldn't just jump to the Ashes I think he's have to plan a lot more about where he's going to go. This means he can't always use all his AP to just kill without planning. Also, make his hire everything upgrades more expensive. That and I think summoning in general needs to be changed so that summoned models can never earn you points. But hey, I'm a radical and challenges the norm! That's why I'm running for president as Trumps VP XD

I just have to say. Using the argument, "I don't use it anyway, so it's not a big deal," is not much of an argument. If you don't charge with Levi that's fine. But that doesn't make the extra buff any less unnecessary on a master who already is pretty silly powerful. To add to that, in response to the question, how often have some of us played Levi. I played Levi almost exclusively for a year. I played him through Adepticon, Gencon, and the Nova Open. I won Adepticon with Levi. And watched another stronger player win 2nd with him at the Nova. Btw, I ran my Levi verses this player at Nova and he beat me. So there's plenty of Levi data from my perspective. Yes, I did not charge with Levi very much before the errata, only because I relied on the summoning trigger so much and his gun gets around so many things that impose a negative to a damage flips which is what I use to make sure things go dead. Yet, the same day this errata dropped, I played Levi in a local tourney and used the charging several times each game. Why? Because there are times when cover is factor, such as against Yin who makes it hard for Levi because her built in negatives and cover pretty much shut down the, at least, straight flip I rely on. But, instead, I was able to charge her an get all those bonuses to the attk + damage + Horror duel and beat her in a single punch where upon I STILL triggered to make an Abomb. Am I to take it that the intention of Levi is just to make sure that NOTHING can defend against his attacks? Might as well just replace all his attacks with "Sacrifice enemy model after succeeded and summon an abomb." (All this for a master who spent a whole EXTRA year in development) XD

I don't think he's squishy at all. It's very much a challenge to actually kill those waifs. I can hardly think of any time I've seen him die.

Any way you look at it, the ruling got changed from you cannot to you can. And as far as board control he has amazing area coverage. He can teleport 10" to the Ashes and Dust for now cost. Plus his 12" weapon.

I was too amazed by the recent errata not to post something to see what the interwebs thought. As you probably know, the newest rules faq tells us that Levi can channel a charge attack and get's the bonus to attack and damage to BOTH attacks. Does anyone else think this is really weird? Here's my reason why I think it is: 1) All previous debates on this topic before the change agreed that the Channel was like focus in that it only worked on the first attack. 2) This is such a powerful boost it gives the guy positive to all flips, that means both Horror and ALL manipulative checks. 3) Levi's other trigger, Poke of Death, is now all but useless. Since you can effectively channel the charge, then channel both attacks, giving yourself double pos to attack and damage. So why does he even have a trigger that costs cards to give himself the positives? This errata just removed a trigger from ever being needed. And now you will only declare the summon abom trigger. 4) Levi hardly needed the power boost. All circles I know of generally agree, if anything, he needs a bit of a Cuddling. So that's my thoughts. Let the debate begin!

As the title goes; does it stack?

OK this is a fun thread about whether any merit exists for this old rule. So some people are replying without reading what's here because this is not an attempt to get a rule changed. Everyone already knows the beta is closed...

Fetid. It was all in the attitude which was not in the spirit of meaningful conversation. Moving on. I think the argument "X can't have Y because Z can't have A" is a poor argument. Hoffman having access to Coppy should have nothing to do with what Kirai has access to. Each needs only be concerned with it's own 1) Fluff, 2) Theme, 3) Game Balance. Does the idea meet these requirements? Yes/No? Then go from their. Each model addresses this separately and shouldn't be looking into each others driveway. If we stick to your rationale, then why doesn't Hoffman summon like Kirai? Why does she get summons? Why does Lilith get to ignore LoS? Why does bla bla blah... Levi can hire 60% of the entire game then why can't Hoffman hire Coppy? See? Argument is pointless. Now Hoffman not having access to Coppy because Wyrd doesnt see any fluff in it then I get that. Removing unnecessary mechanics was a great boon to this game. So a lot of things require fluff and theme to be included. I personally would like to see these two models gain some kind of story together.

Now I can get behind that. A story encounter/campaign reward would be fun. Idk if the question was directed at me but Neverborne was/is my main faction for a long long time.

Fetid this is a game. With little plastic toys. If I want my Robot Guy and My Fishy Man to play together I hardly think it's out of line. Further more, you're reading way to much into this thread. If you don't like people voicing their opinions on what they'd like to see in the game then don't read the thread. Go and start a thread if you like. You can shoot down ideas because you know best all day. But, this is a fanmade thread and we're going to discuss whatever we please here. Moving forward and never looking back now, before we got locked. I wonder what prompted Wyrd to remove the ability. Was it just to obscure a reference? Or could they not reconcile an in story reason for it?

Ausplosions when did you become Fetid? The poll is for fun. Not an attempt to change things. Ya'll so scared of change you jump at its shadow. Chill bro, let the good times flow.

Fetid I feel your post misses the spirit of the thread. But, thanks for playing. Moving forward with the conversation. Would, as it is, be broken to add Coppy to the hire pool for the Hoffs? I wonder. You gotta summon an alp then it's gotta be there when the hunter shoots his gun. What's the range on the alps aura? 3 inches? Idk if that'd be really that powerful. Good? Sure. But, I doubt it'd hurt the game at all. I'm eager to try it though just for Schills and Giggles. However removing the summoning would fix it easily. Funny part is that would probably remove the only real 'good' reason to hire the monster. Hell, if you could hire Coppy what (other than the alp summon) would he bring to the table for Hoffman? Probably nothing other than theme. Of the people who voted 'No, there's no good reason', how many of you played Malf in 1st edition and of you how many played either Hoffman or Coppy? I have a theory that only those of us who did play the combo are the only ones nostalgic even to see a merit in the return of "Unexplained Connection".

http://germanstories.vcu.edu/hoffmann/sand_e.html

Gather around children and I'll tell you a tale. A tale of thing that appeared once upon a dream. Where once a man Hoffman could hire a creature name Coppelius. Now, some time ago this was, mind you. And in this 1st edition of the rules a rule did exists named "The Unexplained Connection". So it was that this Connection was actually a reference to a story called "Sandman" by an author, one named E.T.A Hoffman. Such it was that the villain of this tale was a man to whom eyes were a delicacy and it was this man that Coppelious was. (Just incase any one didnt know, that was the reason (the whole reason) that Hoffman could hired Coppy in 1st ed.) (also in case you didnt notice I liked this reference so much I named my forum handle after it. So no surprise I'm asking this poll).

Hey all! So I'm curious enough to start a poll about this because of another topic about Coppelius. IDK about yall but in 1st Edition Malf I purposefully bought the Hoffman crew because I could run Coppy with him. Coppy was one of my favorite models then (and still is). So I started this here poll to see how you guys felt. I tried to add some reasons too and keep em generic enough. Feel free to discuss why you think what you do. I'm really only curious. This is not a let's get Wyrd to bring back the Unexplained Connection as much as I might enjoy that. That is not the purpose here. T's for fun. Unless Wyrd is moved by our fanatical passions. lol

Not sure why you're using her AP to lure your own models though. What's the gain here?

And like Tara I think they mechanic the made up for her doesnt work but she might be good at something else. I found in the Tara case that not bury and not giving fast but instead burying your own models and running schemes is way better. This is suspect is the case of Ironsides. While they may have intended for her to gain buffs from damage then turn into a beat stick, it really seems like its not worth the effort to do it. I can see that the powerful play is to stick in behind her crew so they benefit from her aura which is truely the best ability she has. Then use her lure to pull things into her crew to eat. Its not that I dont think it's effective its that its just not very exciting. And the mechanic that was intended seems way more fun. Which if all this winds up being the case I wont be buying her crew. If the main theme she's designed around doesn't work and I have to work off a secondary theme, one that for some reason is miles better than the concept, It's not worth the money. There's too many other exciting masters to play. That all being said I really want her to work. I think the idea is great. But, it might be a case of 'let's wait till she gets an upgrade that fixes her'. I really think giving her at least one built in trigger would go really far. I already know that if I do what I suggested in the OP it'll still be a very very suit intensive thing and prone to failure if one thing doesnt land. Plus, it'll eat a stone on each attack probably becuase you wont have the dang cards.

Yah that aura is sick. But, that's not enough to take her alone. I think she can be a crazy damage dealer but not right away. Really not sure how she suppose to work yet. Tomb - Tome = be Tom - eb Mot - be Bemot. I shall compromise and call it Bemot for you. Sound fair?

With Misaki's mastered I've set my sights to something new and Ironsides is very new indeed. I've read her cards and she looks fun, but is she effective? Well, the first game I played would imply the answer is no. But! One game is never enough. However, I think I learn a few things about her. To begin, I've been thinking of her as a normal master. As in, she is a master who is good turn 1 and still good turn 5. I don't think that's the case. So here's my thinking. If she activates outside melee range (so turn 1 and 2). She'll have to use her 1 AP lure-type to get even a single Adrenline. Keep in mind without any 'A' she is swining a lame attack and won't do much. Sure, you could trigger her get 'A' twice and then on her third attack trigger Uppercut but it'll be cb4. Plus you'll need CROW + CROW + RAM just to do that. Let's say you use the lurething to get some 'A'. Well one is not enough. You need at least 2. Maybe then you could trigger to get more on her melee then trigger Uppercut on her last attack leavng you with 1 'A' to get a ml 5 on the Uppercut. Well that's not that great either. So you'd need a MASK, TOMB, TOMB, CROW, RAM. WOW that's suit intense. Well clearly if you want to do anything worthwhile with her you'll need to wait late game. Because if all you do is toss out a few 2/3/4 attack or take one lame ML 4/5 attack that's hardly worth the buttload of cards you'd need to do so. That means stones, lots of stones. But, you won't wanna waste them without knowing you got it going. So you get some more stones with Mages and a few upgrade tricks. Maybe you'll net one or two. And I think that's where Ironsides unique style comes into play. Like Yan Lo. I think Toni is meant to start the game underpowered and gain power as she goes. So turn 1 - 3(ish) you'll probably just be harassing Minions. You'll build 'A' while taking little significant damage. Around turn 3/4 you should hopefully be sitting on a stack of 'A'. Let's say you manage to secure 5 or 6 'A' by the time she goes. Well now we're cooking! You could start with 1AP attack. Trigger Uppercut. Drop down to 4 (let's say) 'A' then make a ML8 Uppercut. Then trigger a 1AP attack. You could trigger 'A' (putting you up to 5). Then Spend your 2nd AP to Jab (1 AP Attack) and trigger Uppercut (ml8). Trigger Jab (Adrenaline 3). On the Jab trigger uppercut (A 1) (cb5). Then last AP Jab and trigger Adrenaline. You end with 2. Probably a better way to do this. But, you'll have attacked...what 8 times? Hawt damn! Of course you'll probably be completely out of SS or damn close too. But, with this number of high damage attacks and pushes and if you had atleast some good cards, by turn 4 you could really really get work done. And this is what I hope is the case of her. That by having lame AP for the first half of the game you'll net more and better AP later game. I'm not sold yet if her Mechanic works. I'm hopeful. But, I worry she's too suit intense. Really (and I mean really really) she should have had her Def Trigger built in. I think then she'd be amazing. Her crew is really important too. The captain is almost a must. You need him to push her into melee range and to pull your Mages out. Wouldn't take more than 2 mages though. I think two for their upgrades to make warding ruins better is the way to go. But, the real thing is Healing. I think for Toni to work her crew needs to supply heals. Her totem is lackluster as hell. I mean there is some tricks with his Drag that you could get some movement out of it. But, its nothing worth his points I think. I'll have to look but I think the success of Toni will make or break on her healings. Def 5, 14 wounds, and Hard to kill I know sounds like a hard line to beat. But, really if Toni get's into combat with a bunch of the wrong models (which is what she is clearly designed to do) she'll fold pretty quick. I think her success also hinges on you knowing what enemies to engage. Thoughts?! Stories of Success with her?

IDK if my opponent every announces they only have 2 SS then that master is dead by turn 3 at the latest. Another thing is if I see you're relying on Ronin and Pilfer to get your stones back I'll thwart you on that and get one of my melee 6/7 high min damage models into combat with your master and that'll be the end of her. I've been playing for a long while now and I've never seen low cache work well. But, to each his own if you find it works for you.