dancater

I know this is political.... but I had to say it.

A plastic model with a small picture glued on featuring a member of the Trump White House.  Although honestly a great and wide range of public figures would suffice.

Have you considered looking for a small Kardashian model, that would seem to fit the bill.  I mean the possibilities are endless.

On a serious note +1 to Ludvig, what is acceptable is what the tournament organizers and/or your opponent is happy with.  The number 1 absolute rule is that it is 110% clear that it is the model it is supposed to represent, so using for example a Dead Doxie as a stand in for a Mindless Zombie is a big NO.  But with the number of zombie figures and games out there I'd imagine you could find viable alternatives.  

2 hours ago, WWHSD said:

Just based on the bit in the preview, it seems like these guys should slot in with quite a few masters but will probably bring a lot to crews lead by Kaeris and Colette.

And today is my quote WWHSD day.

Yep, really look promising for Colette and Kaeris which is outstanding as those are two of the three (poor Mei, but we'll see) Arcanist masters currently on the lower edge of the curve.  So super pleased to see that this box seems to target masters that need a little support as opposed to the 'make better more' strategy.

Curious to see what the (0) actions might be for these models, Burning is already a fiddly set-up mechanic so wondering if how these guys work in the move + interact + special power scenario.  Will they be models which need to set-up over 2-3 rounds or need support from a second model to pull off tricks?

Will Fitzsimmons attack only damage enemy models or is it a simple blast which could hit friends?  Also his durability will be interesting 6' is danger close.

Disguised saboteurs, so I assume this means the special rule, which is promising, although interesting, I mean "hey, look at that person in the gas mask with the detonator..." that must be an impressive disguise.  Wonder on the range of detonate hidden charges, seems like it could be tricky to pull off reliably.  Poison knives provides more Poison for Arcanists who seem to be getting a nasty sub-theme going but need some way to expunge to make it truly lethal, strange as well because until now the poison had been solidly entrenched in Marcus Beasts, but obviously the risk now is every new Beast/Poison could result in a super deadly McM synergy.  

Will Ironsides Burning, the Riot-sides start to become a thing?  I've never seen anyone talk up her Molotov cocktail upgrade and emphasize Toni as the rabble rouser theme, it would seem as though these would be the models to do that.    

36 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

Those buildings look cool and all but it looks like they were designed around 30mm bases.

Agreed.  Which may be awkward game play wise but makes sense, it means they 'look' scale (as opposed to super wide doors) and it makes thematic sense, I mean most Malifaux buildings are not scaled for a Saber-Tooth, its not a standard kinda cat (although modeling in a saber tooth cat flap is a conversion idea which brings joy).

They do look nice and really variable.  Price point is the number one concern.  Assembly, painting and storage will also be...... interesting.

Still love the idea and look.  Hey guys how about a targeted errata to clean up the elevation, climbing and movement rules..... widely acknowledged to be problematic and now it looks like we'll be getting terrain which deserves solid rules to support it.

Budget is a huge factor.

Malifaux does not really play into a "one list to take, one list to play them, one list to crush them all together".  The paper-scissors-rock equation runs on multiple different levels so you take faction-master 'x' vs faction master 'y' but then they take models 'a' to negate your models 'b' and then there is the schemes and strats and add in the terrain.  You need to be flexible.

So what.....

First set your budget, certain masters are simply cheaper to play both in efficient crew and maximum crew pool (I'm looking at you Marcus, don't you bring home another Gupp, we can't afford to feed all the others already, is that a Hoarcat kitten in your pocket?).

Second what is your style, what do you like the look of, do you play aggressive or passive?  I believe you always play better when you play comfortable, regardless of respective tier.

As WWHSD said the Arcanist on a budget article is a solid place to start.  For that matter the Schemes & Stones archives are a solid beginning, most, if not all, of the Arcanist masters have had a feature episode.  Now also as WWHSD said note that S&S podcast episodes are all a bit dated, erratas and new releases change things, but in increments so the core information remains applicable and valuable.

Now, my take

Upper tier, generally powerful masters with good flexiblity

• Marcus is great, huge range of models and adaptable play style.  But correspondingly very, very expensive to buy into if you want to maximize him, many very strong Beasts are out of faction and several are only available in expensive boxes outside of secondary market.
• Ramos is durable and as a premier summoner his crews can cover most tasks with numbers if not specialty.  Also can be costly, for any summoner you need the extra summons models, but he is expensive to start as opposed to a sub-faction money sink (I'm looking at you again Marcus, no a Dawn Serpent is not a pet and feeding it Gupps is not an answer to two problems at once).
• Sandeep is another summoner but no where near as capable of summoning the numbers as Ramos (Sandeep is capped in his summons numbers to three).  Very, very flexible master, probably the best all rounder still in Arcanists if you can select from a range of models, but this does include some expensive out of faction purchases (for some reason Sandeep collects Malifaux's errant school children, including the reanimated ones).
• Ironsides is a solid master, tough, durable and has nice M&SU synergy.  Good selection.
• Rasputina the mistress of blasting is a solid master and her crew synergy (Frozen Heart) is a collection of amazing and deadly models many of whom have a place in a lot of Arcanist crews.  Good selection.

Lower tier, while all Malifaux master/crew combos have a paper to rock match up these are the ones who are tricky and finicky to play.  By no means weak but they punish mistakes far more readily than they reward good play, tough to maximize.  Having said that they are frequently more 'side-ways' players and can really confound opponents who rarely see them played and see them played well even less.

• Colette, has great scheme marker play and can be a nightmare to play with her tricks and weird vectors, nice in-crew synergy.  But is very fragile and with recent releases has some really problematic hard counters to her already tricky durability.  The mistress of misdirection really works when you do, but if you can't fool your opposition then she crumples to a hard slap in the face.
• Kaeris is a flying quasi flame angel, she is somewhat fast, somewhat durable, somewhat synergistic, somewhat tricky, somewhat dangerous and somewhat average.  The main problem here is that while she can do everything, and if done right can do it well, it all requires real effort to do well.  It takes a lot of work to make the flaming choir sing, it does not take much to see the fires of hope snuffed out viciously.
• Mei Feng is a shifty, bouncy, ephemeral master that removes an opponents crew around them in a flurry of melee - at least when she works right.  Good anti-range but vulnerable to melee heavy crews and also attrition builds - but has some rezzer hard counter options at least.  She is dual faction which means she can also play as Ten Thunders, this provide some cool options but can also make her more costly to get her range of model options.

If it was me, starting out, I'd get Ironsides and Ramos.  The Ironsides box is great and is also very important to any later purchase of Sandeep.  The Ramos box provides huge synergy for Ironsides, is very important to any Arcanists, and is plain good.  You can from there expand Ramos by buying some spiders for summoning and you'll find many models which are really useful to both Ironsides and Ramos crews.  This is the cheapest way of fielding two very good masters which also have nice coverage to play against most of the enemy-crew/scheme/strat/terrain combos you'll see.     

Having said that Arcanists can do some Burning and Ramos has some options in that direction.

Not sure, in fact doubt, it would be super competitive.  But think it could be interesting and fun and would not by any means be truly handicapped in a more casual style game.

It looks like there is a general thread of agreement in this topic....

That Kaeris is a fiddly master to play with a collection of upgrades and crew selections that don't synergize the way one would expect/hope.  With her upgrades there are several 'limited upgrade' restrictions which constrain her options and flexibility.  In addition the upgrades while providing a boost on one hand potentially expose a flaw on the other (so not durable enough or average damage output or some mobility limitations).  Then there is the Burning upkeep issue which makes her a difficult master as every round you need to set up her burning requirements in order to work some planned magic, but this is difficult to do and that is even without your opponent understanding your potential play and trying to prevent it.  To work Burning she needs to take certain crew models but a number of those models are sub-optimal outside of a Burning build, so do you take them to maximize her Burning but at the cost of having great crew selections which operate well independently.  

Ironsides is simply tougher than Kaeris.  Raspy is vastly more lethal at range.  Mei Feng and Colette (I will point out that Mei and Colette each have their own significant flaws in the current meta as well) are faster and have more weird scheme/attack vectors.  Marcus and Sandeep are vastly more flexible.  Ramos is a tier one summoner support with some durability and damage output.

So Kaeris is..... struggling for space.  Her main schtick is fiddly, requires constant work to upkeep, demands at least some crew selection which is at least a little sub-optimal and also needs upgrades which while they provide a trick also highlight vulnerability.  Meanwhile in the generic areas of damage output, durability, speed, flexibility, support and crew attrition (summoning) she is across the board over-matched by alternative Arcanist masters and crews.  So she needs her upgrades and crew to separate her and give her a firm 'place' but they struggle to achieve this and in attempting it require careful and constant management.

I think Sandeep, Ironsides, Ramos, Raspy and Marcus are all highly competitive.

In contrast Mei Feng, Colette and Kaeris all struggle in the current meta.  They are fiddly and vulnerable.  However at least Colette has a real strength (can be tough to kill with her triggers, has great scheme tricks and strong crew theme sees solid play).  Mei Feng has TT play and also can operate nicely around a generic crew (she does not need++ but can use support - mainly for railwalking) and she also plays strong into Rezzers and ranged crews.  Kaeris struggles in theme and while she has some potential (vs summoners) as a counter-crew it is even then hard to pull off successfully.  So basically Kaeris is "work to succeed > outcome" in terms of competitiveness, functional theme, strong match-ups or excellent play into certain scheme/strat pools.

Hopefully the new box encounter set can resolve some of her issues but the problem is by adding an amazing few Arcanist models to our already strong cross-SS selection it is likely to boost the better Arcanist masters as much, if not more than Kaeris anyway. 

Really like it.  Great theme.

Rasputina is a very good master, not quite top tier for Arcanist faction but very close and her crew can legitimately contend in any scheme/strat/opponent pool, while excelling in several.

In part it is how good her other theme crew selections are which makes the Ice Golem so weak.  When added to some non-Frozen Heart Arcanist models which are also amazing you should have no issue building an amazing crew with the amount of theme you want which is very competitive.  It just won't include the Ice Golem.   

Staying in theme:

• December Acolytes are near must includes
• Wendigo is a superb totem, auto take
• Ice Dancer is an amazing model which really helps a core Raspy weakness, she's slow
• Snowstorm is a very good henchman 
• Silent Ones are useful models with healing
• Blessed of December is good, not an auto take but it does well and is value for points, fast, flexible and a nice all-round selection
• Ice Gamin are nice 4SS models, average speed, armor so OK durability, some nice damage buff tricks and explosive demise

Honestly a crew with just these direct theme models and perhaps the Arcane Emissary (OK) and/or Arcane Effigy (bloody first class hands down amazing and an auto take in any non strict theme only Arcanist list I make) is fine.  The Ice Golem model (with your opponents permission, always and clearly marked as a proxy) makes a perfectly adequate proxy for either the Snowstorm or the Arcane Emissary if you have limited models available or simply vastly prefer the Golems 'look', but you need to 100% clear this with both any event organiser and your opponents first. 

I will join the chorus.

Love the Ice Golem in concept and theme.  Hate it in game.

Its terrible Df and poor mobility make it a liability especially when compared to a variety of Arcanist models such as Joss, Snowstorm, Howard, Blessed of Dec to name a few who are close in cost and hugely better in value.  I'm not kidding here its an actual liability in many games as you'll devote more time and energy trying to make it work than its worth to the detriment of other tactics and models.  With its awful Df enemies don't drain any cards to hit it (you may futilely drain your own just to prevent straight flip damage) and whittle it down, likely they can get straight flip damage easily and may score (or cheat) a severe and many models not have a big damage boost min/mod/severe, armor 2 off 6+ damage means quick death and this is then catastrophic if the enemy model ignores armor.  It drops in a single activation from most beater models similar to its cost and I can't think of one it can alpha strike without huge luck or error because the big ice-guy is so damn slow. 

In the Raspy summoning build (which is generally sub-par compared to blasting Raspy to begin with) it is simply a huge investment to produce the same underwhelming piece, it may... may do some work if summoned in the middle of opponents at a vital moment, but likely even then its performance will be as a damage sink.  

Its recent 1SS reduction has made a bad model no better and means you waste 1 less stone, but the other 9SS are still wasted.

At best its a win more model, either as a summon or crew selection, if, and its a huge if, your opponent makes a mistake or the perfect opportunity comes up it will smash something, but many other models could do the same with more speed, durability and utility.

It needs some combination of errata beyond the SS reduction:

• Needs better Df, it either needs better base Df (4-5 min) and/or some combination of better defensive tech so maybe HtW or ItW, regeneration, in built sub-zero (or triggered) so enemies are only able to attack it once in melee, a concealment mechanism or trigger to reduce ranged.  Biggest weakness is it is so easy to quickly plink down or simply destroy if you bypass armor (and many things do, particularly playing into Arcanists).  
• Needs (perhaps) something to make it faster, maybe +1Wk and/or Charge.  Alternatively a tactical action called something like Snowball where it exerts an AP to roll forward 'x' (I'd say 6ish) inches with ignore terrain or a trigger on ranged attack/damage where it storms forward 'x' inches like a kind of aggressive squeal.
• Alternatively (or in addition) it could use any number of minor buffs to simply get work out of it.  Currently its a very mono-focussed model slow - easily hit - armored - massive beater.  Its only real trick is throwing Ht 1 models.  Perhaps it could diversify something to prevent schemes near it or a ranged attack (snowball/ice spear) where it throws a nearby (any) scheme marker at target (so a ranged attack and scheme clearing).

As it currently is.  Not worth it for anything except pure theme crafted fun list.  Just cannot compete with comparable models in Arcanists (or anywhere else).  Sorry old snowman 

Malifaux is a solid rules set but the elevation and terrain rules are..... 'more guidelines' and pretty sketchy.  Having said that I've never really seen a mini war game with strong and comprehensive terrain rules, I've certainly seen better than Malifaux's current set though, particularly as because terrain is so important to the skirmish scale of the game (not to mention the atmosphere).

Part of the problem is that their is simply so much possible variety in what is tabletop terrain available, how it interacts with other terrain and how the players 'rule' specific terrain pieces.  This makes it very hard for Wyrd.

Generally I'd go with a quick discussion on what is the rules, in a tournament I'd ask the ref for clarification (ideally part of the player pack/table set up to begin with).  Failing that I'd say a model on the edge can voluntarily jump off (as part of their movement) terrain they are on the edge of and fall, they can climb down (or up as per rules) and I think less than 50% overhang is OK but over 50% would result in a fall (you could equally make this 25% or 33% as long as it is understood by both players).

Yes this is a pain to sort out and means possible arguments but to an extent you'll always have to clarify terrain with a tabletop mini war game because it is so difficult to have true scale terrain which represents exactly what you want it to (for example I don't think I've ever seen a house which appeared genuinely 1:1 scale in both size and floor area).  If you sort out the key points before the game starts this should mean you do it quickly and avoid mid-game arguments.

Always, always beware of terrain pieces which have deployable elevated surfaces and are either not climbable or so high as to be effectively impossible to climb.  Malifaux games can quickly be broken by models deployed or able to move and achieve schems/strat (say by maker placement) totally out of reach of any counter.  Not saying don't do it but players need to be aware of these sort of terrain features prior to crew selection otherwise someone will have a negative experience unable to touch scheme markers or sniper models etc placed on very elevated positions they cannot reach with their crew (if they knew and did not take any/enough counter-models then they can't [or at least shouldn't] complain).

I'm hoping Wyrd use the Wyrdscape release as an opportunity to play test and maybe clarify the critical terrain and elevation rules. 

I've looked at them and they are an interesting selection.

An 8SS all-rounder kind of piece, tough enough, OK damage, reasonably quick with a few tricks.  But they are not overwhelming at anything.  Means they are a tough pick if you are looking for game 'winning' but they are solid for a gap filling all-rounder that can cover any gap your crew has or provide support for a more specialized piece.  Least that is how it seems to my list building.

It is probably not the greatest strat but one I've used is to have the Golem throw Ice Gamin into clumps of enemy models and then target the melee with Rasputina and Decembers Curse, hitting enemy models is fine but the best outcome is hitting the Gamin which allows you to cheat the attack/defense draw to maximize the difference and flip (and be able to cheat) for moderate or better yet sever damage.  The enemy then takes a face full of blasts followed by the inevitable explosive demise of the poor Ice Gamin grenade.

Its not the best strat and it involves the much maligned Golem but it does work and is even more viable with the Raspy summoning build.  It also fun.

Here is the thing about the above debate.

It is not about exactly how the English language works or about logical language "cookies and lollipops" not withstanding.

The rule is simply as played, LLC does not stack with extra armor applied.  Thus it is played, strictly speaking you can persist with endless arguments about wording and parsing punctuation, makes no difference.  You go to any tournament or game event anywhere in the world that I'm aware of, LLC does not stack with other armor, certainly does not at my gaming table.  I'm not going to debate it, there is no point, it is simply the way the community interpreted the rule to the extent that I don't think Wyrd has ever even FAQ'd it (I could be wrong here), so yeah if you want to you can debate how the wording on the card could be better to exclude all the possible events/expansions prior, present and future to function perfectly as intended.....

Or you simply accept that its the rule as intended, accepted and in the spirit of the game and then play on with fun for all.

Alternatively we could engage in a fruitless linguistic debate on this forum about a widely accepted rule which 99% of the gaming community is content with, and frustrate everyone of us over what is essentially a triviality.

Me I'm going to play and I strongly suggest everyone else joins me.

Yep, no change for me, this confirms everything I said in my earlier post, truly awesome looking terrain but does promise to be more "I have one super cool table" than a multi-table/option thing.  This of course opens an interesting question of whether this range will have wide future expansion (which is of course hugely predicated on its initial success...), will we see a graveyard, some sort of sewer system (after all we have bases for both), maybe a Gremlin/Bayou concept....

One thing I will say, this could be a really interesting avenue for a larger shop/club, a few of these would supply your gaming areas with amazing tables and I'd be on board if my LGS organised a weekend to assemble and paint such terrain.  Course sadly I'm in Australia so the term 'large LGS community' does not apply 

Looks amazing.

The positives are obvious.  It will create a variable, interesting, multi-level (so Wyrd clean up those multi-level rules please...), characterful, potentially reasonably durable (plastic = easy to repair) and easy to assemble (plastic = simple to glue with cement) and transport (plastic = light).  Hopefully it will be an amazing alternative miniatures profit stream, which will have utility with Malifaux, Otherside and even TtB, this would provide Wyrd an income flow outside constantly releasing new miniatures which at a certain point becomes counter-productive due to model bloat.  Really will watch this closely, the potential for cool ideas and innovations seems really big, but......

The worries:

• Price, this looks like it will be costly, reasonably so as it looks amazing and really useful, but so is a luxury car and I still can't buy one.
• Painting this will be a nightmare, I already have a vast buy more than I paint problem and this will magnify it when/if I eventually make the purchase.
• Storage, as it's all plastic and some of it looks quite fragile the storage, transportation and assembly (between games) for this looks... challenging.  With the addition that both its cost/value and (assuming you do) painting/assembly will make careful storage even more important.

So in the end my worry is that it will simply be a luxury item for the gamer with their own devoted game space for storage and play.  For tournaments, hench-persons and nomadic club/store play this looks like it may be prohibitive.  

So

Top: Guild, Rezzers, Neverborn, Arcanists, Ten Thunders, Gremlins, Outcasts

Bottom: Guild, Rezzers, Neverborn, Arcanists, Ten Thunders, Gremlins, Outcasts

And yes I'm aware I have all the factions in both groups.  But simply put that is the point, depending on master/crew and meta every faction has some truly disgusting power and some obvious vulnerabilities.  I don't think its practical to 'grade' something as broad as a faction in a game as diverse as Malifaux.

Guild is first class with Nellie and have some great hitters and, especially now, some very good cheap spam scheme runners.  But they have a lot of weaker masters, even after the errata they really have some auto-take henchmen and some which are sub-par and shooting simply isn't as useful as melee and summoning which other factions do better.

Rezzers are potentially unstoppable with Nico running high card cycling or the range damage output from Reva.  But again weaker masters, being card starved and slow hurts them.  In attrition fights they are par-excellence but if you opponent surgically excises your key models and denies you corpse fuel its an uphill struggle.

Neverborn have Collodi who is very, very hard to deal with and Zoriada got some filthy boost in Book 5, they have great masters in both horror and melee domination with speed and the super utility of the Doppleganger.  But glass cannon issues, a bunch of masters with terrible hard counters which are common takes in factions (Pandora into Rasputina for example).

Arcanists Sandeep, Marcus and now Ironsides are all flexible and lethal.  But Colette and Kaeris are below the curve.  This faction has some great speed and awesome hitters but they can also be overwhelmed especially if an opponent takes anti-armor and kills magic and triggers.

Ten Thunders rock with Asami and Misaki even with the nerf is still super nasty, many of the cross-faction masters are strong in TT, Charm Warders are simply wrong and Terracotta warriors and Ten Thunders Brothers are still first class.  But they need the  card cycle and can be attacked on that, a few superb models which are very expensive but still essential. 

Gremlins even with the recent nerfs, and they did get the full force of the bat such as it was, they have some of the nastiest henchmen around and Somner and his Bayou Gremlin horde is still a thing, between pigs and gremlins this faction can overwhelm you fast.  But they are horribly fragile, still rely on auto-take models and most of their masters are meh...

Outcasts have the Viks for the premier speed and violence in the game and Hamelin for the best overwhelming spam, while Tara and Levi are a nightmare in competent hands.  But then I think no faction better rewards good play or more completely punishes bad, I mean look at Jack Daw, he's a beast if played perfectly but otherwise a walk over.

So I would say you can rate the factions by overall strength (so strength from the best master/crew to the worst) 

• Arcanist > Outcast > Neverborn > Guild > Rezzers > Ten Thunders > Gremlins

You could also rate the factions based on their single 'best' master/crew combo into any game (I'd rate and am prepared to be very wrong)

• Outcast (Hamelin) > Guild (Nellie) > Arcanist (Sandeep) > Gremlins (Somner) > Neverborn (Collidi) > Ten Thunders (Misaki) > Rezzers (Reva)

But to say a faction dominates another is the equivalent of saying what is the strongest in paper-scissors-rock.  The answer depends on what each player takes, all the factions can dominate, actually quite easily, with the strongest masters and crews into the right scheme/strat pool but obviously strength on strength it gets interesting but I still think they are close enough that its really tough to separate them. 

So multiple things here, one is as already observed Combo spam on certain masters, and to a lesser extent crews will slow you down.  Also the sheer number of activations will slow things, not to mention messing with lots of marker placement.

All this is aside from your opponent, and this is not that an opponent is inherently slow or quick but that certain masters will cause an opponent to play slower and more tentatively and others will invite a quick response back and forth play.

So (I think) (always depending to a degree on crew and upgrade choices)

Quicker (aggression at range or up close):

• Rasputina is up there as very fast, her main schtick is pretty obvious, she freezes stuff, her ice mirror is a trick but usually pretty linear in play.  Largely no need to deal with lots of horror and minimal worries on your end about markers (corpse/scrap) unless you play into it with her upgrades.  You opponent is motivated to get in and brawl, either they do and might win or they don't and likely loose.  
• Marcus is a quick and flexible choice, classic beast list more or less flies in and smashes face or gets smashed.  Some tricky combos but not to much, particularly once you have things down and know your crew.  Opponent is not likely to be to worried about huge got ya tricks, usually plays quick.

Mid-range (summons for the win):

• Ramos is a summoner which always slows things down a shade as more activation's mean more time and you also needs must mess around with creating and dropping scrap.  The arachnids are not deadly but very irritating and they will slow your opponent both in-game (desired) and out of game (not so much) trying to deal with them.  Also probably the trickiest to balance control hand, his summons need cards, so you'll have card draw and cheating to consider constantly, this slows things as well. 
• Sandeep is another summoner and he has a lot of odd angles and choices with his academic and sharing tricks.  You need to balance your summons-upgrades and make it plain who has what and such like.  His very flexibility means lots of options.  Opponents are likely to play him pretty quickly though.

A little slower (the speedy fragile dodgers):

• Colette is all about the tricks, if you have her humming she plays pretty fast, dropping markers and running riot, if you make a big mistake you're basically dead and that is an unfortunately quick game.  This is why she is mid-range, you need to slow her down against a solid opponent as your margin for error is so tight.  Equally your opponent is likely being slowed down as they make 'best choice' decisions with markers everywhere and all her crews defensive tricks and weird movement.
• Kaeris is a bit like Colette with less schemes and defensive tricks and more straight durability, but in this way she actually can be harder as she can't scheme as well and is not a whole lot better at raw aggression.  She slows her opponent while speeding herself up more or less, its a balance and things on both sides can go slow as people try to work out the ideal use of AP.

The slower (combo and crew buffing auras):

• Mei Feng is the combo mistress with anti-range tech and tricky chain movement, she uses her crew to move and her crew uses her to hide.  Lots of moving pieces which need other pieces to be in certain places and when she gets going her activation's can be long chains.  A good opponent is aware that Mei can fly out of a cloud of steam sideways across the board and smash a bunch of their crew, so they are careful looking for the strange angles of attack, makes it slower still.  I'd say this is your slowest master in Arcanists.  She is fragile as well so you simply can't play her fast and loose.
• Ironsides is another combo master and she has to manage adrenaline, some auras and a few pulls and pushes.  Your opponent is going to be careful because Irons wants to engage and they almost certainly don't want this, she does not have the weird angles Mei does but otherwise is similar.  Plays faster than Mei but I'd say slower than the other unionists.

So I'd go fastest to slowest Marcus - Rasputina - Ramos - Sandeep - Kaeris - Colette - Ironside - Mei all things being pretty equal.    

If you look at the explanation for this errata they specifically focused on Book 1 & 2 releases.  Almost everything (except most notably Masaki's Storm upgrade which had caused the meta to explode) was from Book 1 & 2.  So Sandeep a book 4 master was left alone, as were a number of Book 3-5 models that I'm sure are going to score an errata nerf or boost at some point.  Also this errata was again 90%+ simple soul stone cost changes, and other than cache (which I'll admit Sandeep could drop) you can't change a Masters cost only the crew they take, and this is not Sandeep's problem per say.

So it has been a weird errata for us Arcanists.  We scored some really good, almost (we'll see) too good buffs, notably Cojo and the Hoarcat Pride are just evil now.  A number of Arcanist models (and other faction Beasts which Marcus can use) got buffed and could now have real play.  Its odd because this has given more model flexibility and cross-faction balance.

But within the faction the situation between relative masters strengths is probably actually even worse than it was, weak masters like Colette and Kaeris (whose problem is internal mechanics not faction/theme options) remained static while a strong master in Marcus got a sudden influx of even better crew choices thus boosting him overall, maybe significantly.  

So tweaking soul stone costs is a dirty and simple errata fix for poor choice crew models but it does not directly work for masters.  

Hopefully the mid-year errata addresses some more card mechanics issues which is a much harder and more complex balancing method but also works with much more nuance and can directly effect masters.  But I understand why they didn't do that because to do it well it takes months of effort at game balancing a few models, where as this was a quick and simple address of 60+ model issues.  Its dirty but effective, to do this same errata volume with full card mechanic changes would have taken as much work as an entire book release, or maybe more.  This was a errata for maximum numbers with minimum unforeseen impact.

And mostly I think models that needed nerfs got some (especially Book 1 & 2) and those crying for a buff scored as well (with notable exceptions, poor Mouse and those sad little Wicked Dolls).  My biggest worries are probably spam lists of Guild Guard (high Df and Armor on a 3SS significant model) and Hoarcat Prides (I mean I'm going to play them in numbers in a lot of Arcanist lists, at 4SS they are superb).  

Overall like almost every errata I've ever experienced I'm mostly happy, a little worried, slightly frustrated and basically satisfied.

Question, when will the Wyrd online store be likely to have boxes with the new errata'd stat cards inside? - I'm eventually going to need Ashes & Dust for my Crazy Cat Lady crew now the extra Black Friday cats have arrived.  Is there a plan to put the new cards into boxes on the Wyrd store shelf?

Interesting that there appears to be two debate threads going here, one on the value of the Mech Rider and another on the value of the Captain.  The curious thing is they both are good models at doing tasks which are less tank-smash-engage-kill but more channeled towards subtle play, summoning, scheming, moving and either scoring themselves of getting models somewhere they need to be to either score or prevent scoring.

The essence of this conversation I think reflects the two parallel player paths which Malifaux (uniquely) emphasizes more than other games.  Certain people value WAR games and want a model which brings the pain or absorbs the hate, they subscribe to the kill and avoid dying and score schemes over the subsequent graveyard.  Others find love in the war GAME and want to come at you sideways, happy enough to kill nothing and lose models while they work you into an early VP hole which you cannot escape from even if you table their crew.

So ultimately discussion over the value of Mech Rider over tank/smash model 'x' is fruitless because you want to kill then Mech is kinda adequate and points expensive, but for shenanigans its your clockwork horse of points value joy.

Equally the Captain with his errata (-1 or -2 points depending how you frame 'his' upgrade) has suddenly become potentially valuable but again not in a capacity of tank/killing where several models still outshine him for points.  But now you can really play his movement and other tricks to advantage for a reasonable cost, which means you can spend the extra SS on the models you need for him to move them around and be useful.

5 hours ago, retnab said:

I tried Captain in a Ramos crew last night (with no Johan), and while I did end up losing he was a major reason why I got the VP that I did!  He pushed a Large Arachnid into charging position against his Vendetta target for an easy 3 VP, and I used his Eye of the Storm (which to be honest I forgot was on his card lmao) to push models into Ramos' Strike Markers for unresistable 3-4 damage!  I think Captain with Vox Populi Ramos might actually be a thing for forcing models into those Markers, I recommend it.

Look at that, literally an example, a fortnight ago the Captain cost 2SS more and instead of the large arachnid you'd only have the stones for a steam spider.  Now he force multiplies on a slightly bigger pool of models and thus the effective multiplier is greater.  But nevertheless he is still primarily a force multiplier and not a force applier and certain people will always prefer to play with direct application which regardless of his cost on his current abilities is not really his thing.  

I think its safe to say that used correctly into the right pool the Captain and the Mech Rider will score points and win games but high body counts is rarely the way they do it.  If that is your play style then these are value models.  If not then there are great Arcanist alternative.  Malifaux is a WAR GAME of options, you can bring a flamethrower or a candle, both will start a fire but only one lets you read a book.  The answer in an errata is making the models do what they are intended to do, for a reasonable cost if they are handled correctly, it is not to transform every model into a version of a flamethrower or a candle.

That is the indirect nerf in action, in effect when a particular model gets a point change then the comparable models around its value get stronger or weaker in proportion to the change of the other model.

So yeah the Wicked Doll got worse because a similar but generally superior model, which also has the same crew synergies, got cheaper while the poor Doll did not.  Same action as what is a kinda nerf for the Bayou Gremlins because they are not the only 3SS significant minion any more and overall a number of mid-range and cheaper models got point reduced meaning the Gremlin spam lists are going to be (1) more diverse and not mostly Bayou's and (2) will face more activation number competition from other factions, notably Outcasts and Guild.  

I'm not actually a huge NB player so I'm not sure how the Wicked Doll would roll as a 3SS spam significant minion.  

But I'll note that now Gremlins, Guild and Outcasts have 3SS significant minions available for enlarging crews.  Rezzers with their huge summoning powers rarely had real activation control/outnumbering issues.  So Arcanists, TT and NB seem to be the crews which face the points/model number crunch the worst now.  Although I've read (but not seen and confirmed) that activation control is less of a thing in GG2018.

8 hours ago, anencephalous said:

Again, not an arcanist specialist or anything, but Cojo and The Captain at 2 less looks pretty cool.

I understand that Johan was more arcanist that everyone else, but most factions saw use as well.

The Captain is now dropped into the realm of takeable, in all honesty and I'm happy to acknowledge that Arcanists have some truly stellar henchman, especially in the more expensive points range with Carlos, Cassandra and Joss all deserving of significant attention.  Arcanists had, unlike many other factions with only one or two really vanilla choices a overabundance of great options in the 9+SS range, not only in henchman either, so the Captain was an very expensive henchman who struggled to fulfill his potential in a faction with many models, often cheaper then him, who were simply better.  

Reducing the Captain means you'll likely see him but its not a huge faction buff and more a inner-faction henchman balance adjustment.

Now Cojo I am prepared to acknowledge may be a big deal.  Yes he is Rare-1 so that is a potential saving point, can't spam him.  But, he looks to be great value now and have some real potential point efficient irritation value for many crews. 

Obviously Arcanists did pretty well, especially if you're Marcus, which is odd because his was a crew which was already upper tier.

But I doubt Arcanist crews full of Hoarcat prides are going to suddenly overrun tournaments, you just might see some more of them.  Also remember that there is the indirect nerf value of a points reduction to a different model.   

So Bayou Gremlins got a kinda nerf because they are suddenly not unique as 3SS significant minions.  The Mech Rider was nerfed (again) by not being reduced in cost when each of the other 'classic' riders was (I think its a good enough model still that I'm OK with this incidentally).  A number of other models have been in effect 'reduced' in power and frequency of play because other models were actually reduced in cost.

Overall I think the TT changes are not terrible, several models that rarely saw the table now will, some models which were a little on the hideously common and nasty to play side will not have competition.  I think the Orian was a big loser, the poor Last Blossom seductress seems to have been left out in the cold dark street.  

So further review.  

Still disappointed that the Arcanist got more out-faction balance (which is good) but no real in-faction balancing.  I'd be curious to know what other faction players think of the out/in-faction balancing.

Surprised not to see these models:

• Mouse in Arcanists, he is simply over-costed and awful
• Gremlins - well a notable model is the Bayou Gremlin, very good for 3SS.  It was not directly touched but had a semi-errata given other models (notably Guild Guard and Desperate Merc) became 3SS.  So now they are no longer a truly uniquely cheap include.  In-faction wise they are not as much of a problem next to certain other now cheaper models now.  So maybe not as auto-take and unique as before.  Still surprised they were not touched.  Changes really hurt the Stuffed Piglet which recently got more expensive and now sees a huge swath of better competition in the 3-4SS Gremlin range.
• Not sure in Guild, they seem to have done pretty well.
• Neverborn - the Wicked Doll seems like it could have used some help.
• Outcasts - not sure if their is anything huge here, I thought it seemed well-rounded.
• Rezzers - I still think that Rotten Belles need -1 Wd (down from 7 to 6).   
• TT - Orian seems like she could really, really use help especially given certain other TT's got cheaper, Beckoners got cheaper and the mercenary Performers were untouched.

Surprised to see all of the Emissaries were left alone.  These guys are all pretty much a mixed bag and I think need some real work to balance across the faction emissaries and with regards to the 0SS upgrades within the faction.  These guys are still problematic.

Generally like the broad direction of the errata.  Obviously its impact in conjunction with GG2018 is going to be critical.  What will the meta be saying in June?  

Sadly for Arcanists while these changes are OK they don't address (in fact in some ways worsen) the current internal faction power disparity.  Marcus (powerful and flexible) scored more options, Raspy may take the Golem and with recent changes in Book 5 she has some good play.  However, Kaeris and Colette are both lagging in the Arcanist meta and Kaeris got not much (Specialist, maybe the Captain), while Colette got even less.

So from a cross-faction angle seems solid but from a inside faction balance for Arcanist's this is actually probably a shade worse.

So does some amazing things for Marcus options with Beasts.

Some little buff option for Raspy with the Golem.

Does a few little things for all the other Arcanists but not very much.

The other points cost changes may help us a tiny amount, notably some renowned nasty models (Nurse, Yasunori, Terracotta Warrior, several Gremlins and some Outcasts got more expensive).  So does seem to do an alright job of increasing the frequency of some "bag-space-holders" compared to "auto-takes", which is good, general improvement in the poor models for points over the over flexible/powerful. 

However, does basically nothing for the Arcanist's current struggling master/crew combos - so Kaeris and Colette are still on the bottom in general subject to some amazing changes to GG 2018 play.  Yes other factions did get some changes which may help a little as well but does not change the internal faction balance, I cry for my Showgirls.