Turbodog

Actually, it sounds like if I have a good old slow to die executioner and he is surrounded by rats and gets shot by ANOTHER model, then he dies because he can't kill any of the rats around him. True, the situation has been made a little harder, but again, before, the guild executioner likes being surrounded by weak models (or at least having a few nearby) to "feed" off of in case he is killed. Rats don't seem to work this way. This only "fixes" if a single rat comes up to him and hits him directly.

Obviously we need a new model...a better Guild Propagandist.

Sorry to be back here (I actually really want this thread to just die...) But does this also mean that Pandora (or any other model with the pacify ability) can't use pacify on a model that has already activated this turn since it can't possibly activate after all other models this turn?

Warning: This post is long, and a little more mechanic focused than the others so far... Guild Defining Characteristics: The guild represents a heroic human presence. As such, they are represented by living models with strong base stats and weapon attack and damage – especially that of their ranged attacks. As heroes, their base stat line stands up to or is superior to other models of equal cost. As such, the guild represents a strong force that is effective when it can engage its foes directly head to head. Even the guild constructs have good stats for their cost, but they tend to have some “defect” that means they work much better with their human support. Wardens, while good, are just cb 4, but can get help with either drill sergeant or Hoffman or Lucius. Guardian needs others to protect and push to. Watcher can’t do damage or affect enemies much on its own. Peacekeeper and Ryle have special negatives that mean it’s nice to have Hoffman around. The Pale Rider is an exception to this, but I don’t consider him a “guild” construct… So with the strong baseline, the guild operates as “what you see is what you get”. Generally, they don’t buff one another or have many stacking effects. For the most part, they are well rounded and not specialized. Instead of buffing each other, or debuffing foes, guild magic relies on the ability to negate buffs – to bring everyone back to the baseline. Where they do debuff, the guild tends to debuff magic in order to keep everyone unbuffed. In this way, the guild forces will be dominant since they have a stronger overall baseline. In particular to stats, guild have average speed, average defense, above average willpower (so as to negate magic), above average combat and damage (so as to be brutal). They do not have good ways to recover from damage (especially since they have the least amount of available healing of any faction), or mitigate devastating hits, stressing the guild’s mortality. The higher cost models…7+…are the unique “superheroes” the guild has. They are in one way or another superior to the generally very good models the guild gets to start with at 4 ss. Because they excel at something, or have unique rules, these models could be called “specialists”. But I won’t use that term. They really just are better guild models…but don’t do anything new. They just keep dealing more damage more efficiently. Guild does not have as many “specialists” in terms of dealing with particular threats. They have little in the way of armor ignoring attacks and no way to remove immune to influence. They have no way to remove or bypass object. They have little way to remove models via sacrifice effects or burying. They do have some magical attacks to help deal with spirits. Essentially, they remove models by doing damage – and that’s why they do it so well. With the inclusion of 10 thunders, the guild has some models that offer the mobility and positional traits that 10 thunders focuses on (sacrificing some base stat line for this). This increased mobility is welcome, as stated above, guild is usually restricted to average speed and does not utilize many tricky model interactions to gain speed. Likewise, winning the positional battle helps other guild models focus on delivering the killing blow, which they are so good at. There are of course exceptions that can be pointed out if you go model by model, but this is the general idea I think guild has. The future of guild I would expect to see more of the same. Good, solid, heroic models that can deal with a variety of threats by doing damage, but not necessarily by being “tricky” or through multiple model interactions. These models will continue to be “mortal” and not too resilient. I would welcome seeing a few more specialists for the guild (and, honestly, I thought this is what their “elite division special forces” would be for). The specialists would offer abilities like Hans’ goggles, or a way to remove immune to influence, or a way to get around armor / object. Also continued ways to deal with counters/tokens (as those keep getting added) would also be nice to see. IMO: needed updates in v2 for book 1 models: Sonnia/Totem need to utilize the burning counter mechanic. (and maybe Sam for flaming bullets.) Papa needs to have some kind of dynamite mechanic like Willie to bypass Object/Armor/Hardness or do additional damage to it. I wouldn’t mind seeing Papa become special forces if this happens (which would also likely stop what I consider Zoriada abuse of him). So to get back to Jonas' idea...who are the heroes of the guild? They are the cowboys, the guardsmen, the witch hunters, and the death marshalls, along side their steampunk robots that fight against the villainy, darkness, and horror that is Malifaux!

Thanks for finding this, Ausplosions! Certainly my card does not say "other undead" like Ratty stated, and I didn't see it in the card errata/updates/faq so I didn't know. Probably need to put that up there somehow... Thanks for your work to find this!

I'm sorry. I didn't realize this particular idea had ever been suggested before. Although I do realize the various, tiring arguments regarding master power and Seamus in the past. I retract the idea if it is going to cause problems.

I just wanted to start a thread to elicit feelings about a change to Seamus. Some people I know like Seamus' relative power as a master, and others feel he needs a buff. I was wondering...what if... (1) The Face of Death: Produced not just a terrifying-->14 effect out to 4" but it was actually an anathema affect. I feel like this would not be an "overbuffing" change to radically change how Seamus plays. I feel like this would definately help Seamus with exactly what some people see his biggest downside as. I feel like this would take away the "auto-include" status of the Avatar, while still making the Avatar very much worth taking as a "side step" in power for Seamus, rather than a power up. I feel like this would be very fluffy as Seamus when casting becomes terrifying to everything (hello....grave spirit power!) I feel like this would be fluffy in terms of summoning the avatar, as casting the face of death (anathema) is one way to get there (perma-anathema!) Finally, I feel like anathema was added after Seamus 1.0 was written, and had it been conceived of prior to the first printing, he might just have it. (I feel the same way about Sonnia Criid and burning tokens...) So, what do people who play Seamus think about this?

As Ratty often reminds us...all Morale Duels are WP duels, but not all WP duels are Morale Duels. This is one of those cases. Undead are making a WP resist, but not a morale duel, so they can still be affected (so long as they don't also have Immune to Influence, which would protect them from this.) Ninja'd by Boshea!!!

So, how about this... A model is always within any distance of itself...soooo So if Seamus (or his totem) casts Undead Psychosis on any undead model... When the undead model activates, it MUST pass, because it, itself is undead and can't possibly end a move more than 3" away from itself. Am I right on this?

Obviously the knives have a special rule: Drawn to Bete: When a knife is thrown or used to make a stabbing attack, you may immediately choose to replace the knife with this model before it is embedded in the corpse or ground and removed from play. If this model is not in play at the end of the game, the knives are also counted as removed for all purposes.

Okay, any reason that I can't companion activate Levi and one of his two waifs. Sac the waif on it's activation (by trying to cast one of levi's spells). Then activate Levi who can NOW use entropic transformation to make a new waif? I assume the old waif just doesn't re-summon at end of closing phase in this case (cause that would be 3 waifs on the table...)

Thanks, thought so... Need to update Pull my Finger (who ever does that)...it indicates it would be for both.

Decapitate (requires a crow to trigger). "When damaging defender with claws strike, kill defender unless its controller discards 2 cards or soulstones..." Love the Job "When an enemy model killed by a claws strike is removed from play, heal all wounds on this model."

Dumb. Not you, Easternheretic. The Fizzle Rule itself. Is this the "fizzle rule" from the FAQ/Errata? "What happens when a model attempts something that it couldn’t do, like cast a Spell to create an additional Rare model when my Crew’s maximum number of that model are in play, or casts a borrowed Spell that requires a Weapon/Ability my model doesn’t have? You cannot attempt the Action. If the Action would not work, reset back to before the Action began. If an event would require the model to enter play (such as a Pine Boxed third Viktoria coming into play when a Death Marshal is removed from play) the model does not enter play." Now my opinion (which isn't worth much) is that the only requirements for Levi's spell are a Casting Cost and a target. We have both of those. The effects of the spell are varied based on conditions. The primary effect is that the model is sacrificed. If the model can't be sacrificed, then stop now. It's not a valid target for the spell, fizzle, I see that. Then there are two POSSIBLE effects due to the sacrifice. One possible effect is that a steampunk abomination COULD be summoned. Another effect is that a hollow waif COULD be summoned. There is a third unlisted effect that NOTHING is summoned (because its not living, undead, or a construct...spirits for example). The logic that says I can't cast the spell because I can't summon another waif, would likewise say I can't ever cast the spell on any living or undead model because I can't get a steampunk abomination, AND I can't ever cast the spell on a construct because I can't get a waif!!! So...I can't ever cast the spell??? Just silly. I call "dumb" on this.

Oh. What about a killed effect? Like the guild executioner's trigger decapitate? Can that still kill them and allow him to heal?

Quick question... Bete's knife strikes are paired. Is this only her melee knifes, or her thrown knifes and melee knifes? Wiki (which I realize is not official) seemed to think it applies to both...

Just checking... Is it intended that a rat (or any number of them) can kill a guild executioner now? I mean, his slow to die goes off, but it's impossible for him to kill a rat and regain his health, so he just dies? This didn't used to be the case with him and rats...

I think a guild guard or two is an excellent addition to a mass-guardsman list, the kind you would take in a large game involving Lucius or McCabe. They are a nice +1 armor option (really hurts some arcanist models that rely on you not having armor). And the more guardsmen you have, the better their (all) ability is.

Avatar Levi manifests. What happens to waifs? If they die/sacrifice do they summon to ALevi? Can they still cast original Levi or aLevi spells? Do they still pass if aLevi is off board? essentially, how do they work?

Ok, so I was recently told about a new "fizzle rule" and that it may prevent Levi from casting entropic transformation on an undead model if he already has two waifs out. Anyone care to explain this to me?

Hey Jonas, nice thread. I've been fiddlin' with the Ortega clan a bit lately, and I do feel the pressure of "how many high cost models" when planning the crew. I think it is exacerbated by the fact that they are all mask/ram needin' models! You just can't feed a full Ortega clan enough masks to get full value. So taking a couple and augmenting with some cheaper models (who could care less about masks in particular) is a good idea. So all arrows point to the pistoleroes - as the thread figured out. And they do currently stink badly. I have not had success the limited times I've proxied them. I can say this, I like the look of the models and may buy a set just to paint - but never to play. I think the idea of giving them a mask granting ability will be hard to balance and a little too much. Even though I just said that the limited masks are a problem for the Ortegas. I do think that's an important balance point for the models. Instead I'd rather just have good, cheap, usable models that feel Ortega-y. To me, that means they shoot and have companion. I'd do the following: #1 get rid of Ornery. #2 get rid of that useless (all) "Look Out" action. Replace it with nothing at all. #3 get rid of critical strike on the skinning knife. Finally #4 - I'd flip flop the Cb between melee and ranged, making them 4 with the knife and 5 with their pistol. Honestly, I'd take them in an Ortega list for 3 SS with just that. They'd feel super Ortega-y...decent shooters that fold in melee that can pull off some scary companion tricks. I like the (0) follow their lead action alot too. Plus they have a good stat line, shrug off and stubborn. They can stay insignificant at that point for 3 SS. They'd also then solve my problems of 1) too many expensive models and 2) too many things needing rams and masks specifically (well, at least they don't add to that problem).

Wording provided: "Dampening: No (Blast) may be placed and no (aura) or (pulse) effects may originate within 3" of this model except during its activation." So I'm playing a game using Hoffman and the following two interpretations of this ability come up. I need people to help weigh in on which way it works: Interpretation 1: no (aura) or (pulse) ... may originate interpretation. The first thought - and the way we played it for the game - was that the ability does the following: If a model is about to generate an aura or pulse, then you check the model's distance to Hoffman. If it is within 3" the aura is totally cancelled or the pulse doesn't happen. If the pulse or aura is outside 3" from Hoffman, it works and applies to all models within it's range (including Hoffman and those near him). Specifically this came up with Mr. Graves who was dropping his (0) bar's closed pulse just outside 3" from Hoffman - and blowing Hoffman's death ball apart. (note: this was in a pandora crew - so it worked to great effect.) Interpretation 2: no ... effects may originate interpretation. The second thought was - what if Dampening isn't supposed to stop the aura or pulse, rather it stops effects generated from an aura or pulse. In other words, when a model is about to receive an effect due to an aura or pulse, you check it's distance to Hoffman. If it is within 3", the effect doesn't originate on the model. This interpretation leads to some interesting consequences. For example, Hoffman wouldn't completely shut down big auras like Nicodem's if he was standing next to Nico - it would just shut down the aura for the undead within 3" of Hoffman. Others could still be affected that were further away. Also, this makes the Guardian (whose stock has been dropping for me) an interesting choice for Hoffman. It could use Disrupt Magic, which is a 6" aura. It would still not disrupt near Hoffman, but would reach out a small zone beyond 3" with a tiny disrupt bubble. For the game we played, this would have made Mr. Graves (0) Bar's Closed not work on Hoffman or his ride due to Dampening. (Interestingly, Bar's Closed is not completely canceled and still can affect other models, such as Mr. Graves himself. And it would have still been worth doing in that game as failing the WP test still generates the wounds from Pandora - just there would be no push effect.) ============================================================= So I'm guessing people all play (and the design intent is to play) ala interpretation #1 above. But is there any merit in discussing interpretation #2? Anyone want to weigh in on this?

Totally agree with previous posts. Also adding that Sue has been a good addition to Sonnia's crew for me. He is expensive at 8 SS but brings many useful things and works better for me than Hopkins for the same cost.

Hrm. Own every guild model released except two totems and Latigo Pistoleroes. (That speaks volumes by the way). Have played 2 games with Leveticus, my only Outcast master. Have played 0 games with Seamus my new Resser master. He's a side painting project at the moment. Have played all other games as guild. (That's alot). Yeah - I'm a big guild guy. Every Year is Year of the Ram. -Turbodog

Just chiming in here. The comment on soulstones is incorrect. As a Henchman with a reserve of 4, the MAXIMUM number of soulstones Von Schill can have is 4. So if you are two under the game limit - which would net a master 2 extra soulstones - you don't actually get those with a henchman. It's one of the tricky balance things in Malifaux about henchmen vs. masters. So if you are 2 ss under, you need to take another model, upgrade an existing model, or lose them. Hrm. Dropping the desperate merc and student would get you a total of 7 more soulstones, allowing you to take the Friekorp Librarian. (That would leave von Schill with all 4 henchmen soulstones - assuming the 40 ss game that is).