sephiroa

I know a lot of buzz has gone around about the possibility of casting 2 or 3 Exhumes per turn thanks to Molly + Totem + Mortimer (having Molly copy, but not cast the spell in the first turn, then totem casts, then in the next turns Molly casts then copies exhume so it's always available to the totem).

I'm curious if anyone has playtested this yet and, if so, how effective they found it? I'm wondering if the corpse counter factory is worth its 17 soulstones.

i think mortimer itself is worth it,

molly is a superb model, so in addition to thet yess,

totem, depends on the totem necrotic machine, yess, can give mortimer undead, so he can benefit from bolster undead

i think your judge got it wrong

the wagon isn't a model, it's breakable terrain - note the impassable and hardness traits, which only exist/apply to terrain. Blasts don't damage terrain, only models.

+1

My interpretation was that you could only hire them if you had Kaeris or Sonnia, kind of like Malifaux raptors only being hireable with Marcus, Zoraida, or with an Austringer.

may be hired,

raptors are "may be hire ONLY"

suggestion: Maybe change "deepest fears" to "tear-away face"? A little nod to nightmare before christmas, not the first one to creep into malifaux.

"i am the $$$$$$$$$$ with the tear-away face ...!"

win!!

And that's really quite fine, because if you think about it, a 5x7 piece is 35 sq inches. A 3x3 is only 9 sq in. So, a 5x7 piece is approximately the same as four 3x3 pieces. So, in reality, if you're using nine pieces at 5x7, you're just about where you should be in terms of total table coverage.

The only reason it becomes a problem to utilize large pieces like that, is in Strategies like Plant Evidence, where you have to Interact with a bunch of terrain. Can be tough to make sure there are 4 pieces completely on the opponent's half of the table.

I know when I set up tables at our LGS, I usually go for about 4-6 'large' type terrain pieces, and then sprinkle in 8-12 smaller ones.

this has been dealth with we do have some smaller bits, and the plant the evidence can be done on a special part of the terrain (big ruins, both on each side of the terrain, but in a way, they still have to move to get it)

Just as a point of reference, the Malifaux rules suggest 18-27 pieces of 3"x3" terrain.

Just doing some rough math, that means that approximately 1/4 of your table's surface area should be covered by terrain when you play. Of course, that would be 1/4 if you bunched it all up together in one spot. So, spread out over the table, that's actually quite a bit of terrain.

I'm talking about at least 9 peices who are roughly 5"x7" or bigger (our gaming club is kinda new to Malifaux, and we are still making and buying new scenery)

hmm... so they do....

so, If a model has Bulletproof 1, and a spell gives it Armor 1,

then the powers evolve into Armor 2 vs Ranged and Melee?

no, it evolves in armor +1 for melee

and armor +2 for ranged attacks

No, that's armor +6 - Hoffman's "Protected by Machines" doesn't stack with any other Armor that he might Assimilate...

However, with 2 Guardians, you could Shield Wall a PeaceKeeper with both, and then take the armor with "Protected by Machines" for a Total of +10...

I was not talkin about protected by machines, shield wall is for every model in b2b with gaurdian,

so let's say hoff is in b2b with gaurdian an peackeeper as well,

hoffman gets 4+ from shield wall, and could assimilate the 6+ from peackeeper

I don't think you can stack armor from the same source, can you? Don't have either the RM or cards here at work to check.

I'd assumed that since the Peacekeeper's +4 came from Shield Wall, it would not stack with Hoffman's +4 from the same Shield Wall.

I think it would just be +6 total on Hoffman. Would love to here differently though!

I'm not sure,,

4+ from shield wall

4+ from shield wall and 2+ armor, this could stay like this, or, it would become 6+ armor and could be assimilated (and i think it's the last one)

but even so, 6+ is really nice

The one I am thinking of is Guardian's Shield Wall on Peacekeeper, giving him +6 Armor, which Hoffman can then Assimilate from the Peacekeeper. There is the base-to-base issue of Shield Wall to deal with, but I think as long as Hoffman is b2b it should work just the same.

Are there others?

what, wait? thats armor +10??

i need to use ramos a bit more i think

I would think not. It says that the Spider's' may not swarm together again this turn. So even if the one activating it is new, the others are not. Being in the swarm prevents them from being part of any swarm this turn.

that was my other thought, but then again, they are not the one doing the action. scatter says: the steampunk arachnids may not swarm together this turn. i think they mean the action

i think we need an RM for this

I think there's a very simple change you could make to the dreamer that would reign in the worst aspects while not changing playstyle-

only allow him to start with 1 daydream (but he can still summon more as normal). This prevents all the first turn "Hi on my first activation I'm in your deployment zone killing you and now I'm back in mine!" stuff that's pretty ridiculous. It makes him start a bit slower but he can build up to the full craziness with an investment of ss and time. That's perfectly reasonable. There are any several other masters who get crazy good if left unmolested to do their own thing.

wasn't that the same thing i suggested

Graverobbers used to be able to take an (All) action to gain one corpse counter, just as Scavengers can still take an (All) action to gain a scrap counter. The issue came about because lists started showing up that had Nicodem and 10+ Canine Remains in them.

Turn one each dog would take an (All) action to gain a counter, Nicodem would then go and raise 10+ Mindless Zombies a turn.

Granted taking an (All) action for a counter isn't game breaking one way or the other, but I really feel it would have been better to fix that one interaction rather than taking the ability from ALL Graverobbers.

really? turn 3 manifest with 20 mindless zombies and 10 canines? kinda game breaking don't you think

but i agree, just taking it away wasn't the best idee,, (they ARE graverobbers,,)

but to get back OT.

i agree that the problem is with the bumping them,, i don't use flurry often,, but imagine on a 35 ss, 3 teddies and chompy in the middle of your crew? and the teddies start flurrying on the master, or other beatsticks,,, i don't think that any crew can survive something like that.

leave the all my friends trigger, but like pgb said, change to base2base

I tend to find rules wide changes to be less beneficial than card specific changes. Case in point when people wanted to change lure because of the FILTH list I was against it because too many other models would be affected as well. I'm still also upset about the Change to Graverobber and not to Scavenger when it was because of one interaction that all graverobbers lost one of their abilities.

I know you stated putting on Nightmare cards, but I think it would make the game as a whole a little more clunky to have an entire subtype that bury works differently on. I think the fixes need to be done on the Daydreams, because before they came out from what I read the people who used the Dreamer without them were still strong, but not to the level he is currently used. I could be wrong, but that's what I remember. I'm not advocating for the Daydream's removal, but I think a targeted change at them would be the most effective at toning down The Dreamer/Chompy.

true, true,,

so the problem is chompy,, zipping in and out of combat,, combined with daydreams, well the thing i woud say is,

the master of dreams stays, but change the daydreams, dreamer can have a max of 3 BUT can HIRE only 1

I may recall this incorrectly, but I think you can only assimilate things that are on the model's card to begin with... and thus couldn't get armor from other sources that is stacking up.

already been said that you can assimilate evrything, even the reactivate that hoffman gave to a peacekeeper (or somethin else)

(unless this has been changed recently)

Not to stop the first turn strike. Check out the Wiki entry on Dreamer, look at the Full Speed Ahead section, it breaks it down.

It's all done through Companion and the recent change to Companion enabled you to do the return of LCB to your deployment zone in the same activation where before you had 1 activation to try and get him. Even that though was generally not enough unless you had a combat focused Master or a powerful Companion Chain. You could hurt him, but killing him was very rare.

I know that, to bad, there is nothing you can do atm to prevent that, i can take his chompy throw him through the window and kill him with the lightning coming from my eyes, because its a nasty move, and very cheesy

So if LCB poping in and out on the same turn is a problem, how would you fix it? What would be the ripples of say banning him from burying the same turn he is unburied?

For starters it slows him down a good bit, about 6" + wiggle from the base stuff. Second, it exposes the big weakness that LCB and all the Nightmare's share, fragility. His Low Df is going to leave him swinging in the wind even with Use SS to protect himself. But really, is that a bad thing? Is this ok? How far does this rabbit hole really go when you start looking into this... it has to be carefully broken down.

well,, ther are several things i could say, first, you cannot bury a nightmare when you unburried it this turn

second, chompy cannot be unburried with the frightning dreams spell to prevent a big ss cache. remove master of dreams and give him a cache of 2.

change the all my friends (1+ ) 1 for every :masks or so

these are small changes, but the zipping will be gone

I'm oke with the dreamer, he can be dealth with, and I agree with kinda everybody here that Chompy is the problem, not the dreamer, the fact that he can zip into combat, kill some models and zip back out of combat, is a bit harsh,

the alp bomb cuddle was a good move, this is how Wyrds shows that they indeed listen to us,

and to talk about kirai, kirai indeed can use the same trick, zip a spirit back out of combat. but at least you have the change of trying to deal some damage, with the dreamer, almost impossible,,

its a strong move, but I never played against a very competitive player who uses the dreamer, so i won't now how heavy that trick is,

but if the main zipping thingy are some daydreams, some fast crews (collette, kirai, lilith) can't they deal with them? or some shooty crews?

i don't beleive that you would need something like that, if you WANT to change that, for every additional nightmare past 2 discard a card, but i don't think that's neccesary.

the dreamer is OK atm

They actually changed the wording on towards/away so it does have to be the shortest route possible (which in most cases is a straight line), but you are able to go around something if you have to.

yeah that was what i was thinking

i also believed its to where you want it, but i've found out on another thread that its shortest route

Only leaves you with 3 SS, which I don't think is enough if you're going to run Kaeris.

I would recommend down-grading the Swarm to two individual Arachnids, which will get you 3 more SS in your pool. Then just have Ramos summon the 3rd Arachnid in the first turn to make your swarm.

Otherwise, looks like a solid build.

yeah that's the same thing i was thinking

Most of Sephiroa's boards above look to have a good amount of terrain, but those California ones look pretty dire.

Malifaux boards need to be very terrain dense! I can't remember exactly what it says in the book but something like 2/3 terrain features in each square foot. Not 4 terrain features total, and small hills don't really count.

The woodland board is really pretty, but it looks a bit too much like a big open expanse in the center which will give ranged crews a big advantage.$$

Mike

thats how we based the tables, Malifaux tables are (imo) with a lot of terrain, at least 9 pieces, about 3/4 of the table is terrain, when you are on ground level and you can shoot 16" with nino in a straight line wihtout that your enemy has a cover (i know nino ignores it but you get the point) the table is not good imo.

edit: and i am talking about when you deploy there could some nice shooting lines, but you would have to move at least once to obtain this

I am still trying to find out the exact definition of an effect. Not necessarily about the dispel magic. Just the term effect confuses me somewhat. It seems extremely broad. From what i see it seems to be anything that falls under the ability category with a bold term. Also lets say a spell gives you an aura.. can you dispel magic on that model and the aura is gone? I am really not trying to be difficult its just that an "effect" does not have a clear definition to me.

well, effect, is everything that gives a model something extra,

(+1)fast, (+1) melee expert, a buff, hard to wound.

model A gives an aura, model B has a buff from it, to get rid of the buff, you need to get rid of the aura, thus dispel it from model A and not model B because model B would still get the buff.

it does not have a clear difinition, because it's kinda everything, every buff, pulse, aura, (+1) (-1) they are all effects,

soo to answer that question, you could get rid of anything, but some would come back, because of abilities,

So then for clarification what exactly is an effect? I read it in the rules manual but it just kinda confused me. What the rules manual says seems to imply that pretty much everything is an effect of some sort. Is that pretty much true? If thats the case dispel magic pretty much just gets rid of anything then?

big difference between an effect and an ability is:

an ability can give effects: (+1)fast, (+1) melee expert

effects: some spells and actions can give effects, again (+1)fast, (+1) melee expert.

BUT: dispel magic allows you to get rid of 1 effect: thus remove the (+1)fast, (+1) melee expert.

but models with that said ability will get it again, because an ability keeps getting the (+1)fast, (+1) melee expert no matter what,

but the spell or action wich allows you to get the (+1)fast, (+1) melee expert, isn't always active, so you lose that effect.

so to use dispel magic on lilith on her (+1)fast is useless, but to dispel magic on the desp merc to remove the effect is not useless

(now i hope I'm right,,,)

Ok so a question for you...This tactc came into my head yesterday whilst trying out Ramos for the first time....

I have a SPA Swarm, and attack with it for its 2 Melee Master attacks at a enemy model, I then (1) scatter, to seperate into 3 spiders.

Q, If I then Combat Mechanic one of them to turn it into scrap (healing another), then create a new spider using the scrap, can that spider now take the (1) action to form a new SPA Swarm with the other 2 still there?

The rule for the scatter says the spiders cant reform into the swarm on the same turn, but the spider activating the (1) action to create the swarm is a new spider, and therefore is not subject to the limitation to not being able to create a new swarm. The new Swarm could obviously not break down again ( unless you then give the Swarm Reactivate and do all this shennagan again!)

It seems a great way of making Ramos' crew a bit more competitive...

So does the above tactic work?

I like the idea of having a swarm attack, scatter for 3 more latch on's/attacks, then create a new swarm with some of those models, attack again then re-activate from the Brass Arachnid, attack again, scatter and some more attacks!!!

i think it can, but I'm not sure