ThePandaDirector

Finally on the computer (you wouldn't think I owned it =P)

I've enterered NaNo twice; succeeded 2012, failed 2013. Strangely, I find NaNo prep more useful as a motivation/learning exercise than the actual event.

Anyway, back to my feedback.

As I said, I loved the start, and found it smooth and to-the-point. Just being oddly specific here, but the use of "her" in "her weird upsetting way" and "that" in "that giant black mountain" stand out to me, simply for being more interesting than the word choice you'd find in more common compositions of such sentenes. "Her", in the context, sounds familiar, almost nolstagic, like he's instantly been trapped under her spell. And "that" just sounds more singular and ominous, which does help elevate the narrative's otherwise feeble attempt to incorporate the theme.

Having only read your other piece after this one (I'll post my feedback on that shortly), the second paragraph was actually very enjoyable without any knowledge of previous events. I like how it just ignores the previous event, and before you can wonder what led him to being grabbed, you're flung into the present moment.

This is the first speedbump I hit:

"Then I couldn't even speak. I struggled a little where I was, tied to my uncomfortable little wooden chair, but honestly, I don't know if I was trying to escape or if I just wanted to entertain her for a while with my contortions. Why would I want to do that?"

The bit that got me was "I stuggled a little where I was". It took me awhile to figure out what was going on. Why is is suddenly strunggling? Why just a little? The second half of the paragraph helps you understand what's going on (he doesn't know why he's struggling), but I think it could be worded better nevertheless. But do keep the last sentence, I like how that gives the reader a "oh I see, huh, interesting..." moment, but if you can get rid of the speedbump then it'll be a smoother experience.

I like the use of picking out the key words wih bold, italic, purple. I usually don't like colour in writing, but it works here.

"There was an open metal box on the table."

I know what you;re doing, and it makes sense, but it's poorly placed, and while to the point, that directness highlights it in a way that feels out of place.

"She held all the cards - who was I?"

This bit didn't make much sense to me. I get the first part, but the random "who was I?" makes no sense. I'm guessing he's sayig "who am I to challenge her, to fight back?", but it doesn't translate that way.

"I hid my face in my newly-freed arms"

I agree with edonil, "newly-freed arms" sounds weird.

"hunched over the table in wailing agony and shame."

This just hits a flat note for me, I get no impression of "wailing agony and shame". I think this paragraph as a whole is worth expanding on, even if you have to cut down the memories more, as I think that the end could benefit from a little more build up, a drum roll of emotion if you will.

I think he should realize it was his knife by touching it, the sense of it reminding him, but possibly in a way that makes us question if it really is his knife.

The end is fine, the cutting of the thumb could be a bit more vivid, but the rather dismissive way it comes accross is good, which would contrast nicely if you expanded the previous paragrap I noted, to show that he's passed through the storm of sanity and is flying through the clear skies of insanity =]

I'll finish with the memories, as they are a seperate part of the story in some sense. But as I said before, that's part of the problem. Though the mention of flophouse made me jump to the conclusion Margarita was a hooker, both memories are well composed. I prefer the second, as it has both humour and a healthy dose oif regret and shame, which links it to the rest of the story better. I think the first could emphasise the emotions of jealousy and rejection. A quirky idea would be if you subtly linked Margarita to Pandora (the smile is key there I think), then have the protagonist take confusing pleasure in causing her woe, which links to the part about Pandora frowning and smiling. Then perhaps the second story is reversing the positions and placing the protagonist in Pandora's shoes, though in that case I might be tempted to switch the order of the memories (going from feeling woe to causing it). Just thinking aloud (maybe needs more "thinking" ), but I don't think it'd take too much work to integrate the memories better.

Anyhoo, that's about it, I think. Hope that's of some help to you. Feel free to ignore everything I've said =D

Awesome, I like the extra height you've gone for with the Impassable Markers. Look forward to seeing more, it might inspire me to start a project of my own.

Awesome, I like the extra height you've gone for with the Impassable Markers. Look forward to seeing more, it might inspire me to start a project of my own.

This is just a quick post on my tablet, I'll go into more detail tomorrow.

As much as I would enjoy starting with a torrent of "constructive criticism", my first comment simply has to be that I thoroughly enjoyed this piece. It's the first story I've read on this forum for quite awhile now, and it reminded me of the quality that gets posted here. The speed you posted it in, however, is simply showing off :-P

I haven't read your other work, so I have nothing to compare to, nor do I know about any tie-ins to previous pieces.

I liked the start, it flowed very smoothly and immediately got me into the story. A lot of stories, including my own, can take too long to get off the ground. When I get to my criticisms I will touch on the "memories", but by making the character question them you do make the reader a lot more forgiven (in some sense a flaw becomes a bonus).

There is room for improvement, but its a bit of a tight rope since its important to maintain the pace you've got going. As oddly well composed as the memories are, I think the content could relate more to the context of the story, just not in an obvious way. I'll expand on that thought later.

Thanks for posting :-)

This is just a quick post on my tablet, I'll go into more detail tomorrow.

As much as I would enjoy starting with a torrent of "constructive criticism", my first comment simply has to be that I thoroughly enjoyed this piece. It's the first story I've read on this forum for quite awhile now, and it reminded me of the quality that gets posted here. The speed you posted it in, however, is simply showing off :-P

I haven't read your other work, so I have nothing to compare to, nor do I know about any tie-ins to previous pieces.

I liked the start, it flowed very smoothly and immediately got me into the story. A lot of stories, including my own, can take too long to get off the ground. When I get to my criticisms I will touch on the "memories", but by making the character question them you do make the reader a lot more forgiven (in some sense a flaw becomes a bonus).

There is room for improvement, but its a bit of a tight rope since its important to maintain the pace you've got going. As oddly well composed as the memories are, I think the content could relate more to the context of the story, just not in an obvious way. I'll expand on that thought later.

Thanks for posting :-)

*Two stars glisten under a ragged hood. The stranger leans forward, flickering light casting panda eyes in sharp relief, and pushes a pile of worn tokens towards the centre of the table. The stranger holds his position for a moment, and declares with a smirk*

I'm all in :-)

I haven't double checked my stat card, but I'm pretty certain the cost is supposed to be :rams :masks

Not that I'm aware of. I can imagine the Master/Sidekick and Pawn frames being available as a Wyrd-store-only deal, but individual models are unlikely. Even if there was a fault/miscast, Wyrd would likely send you a frame anyway.

That said, I can see myself buying a second set of the boxed game in the future, chances are I won't need all the models so I'd probably stick them on the trade forum. That won't be for awhile though, so maybe someone will beat me to it.

If you don't mind settling for the metal models you'd probably have better luck getting them (I still have some).

So I want to just lay down some foundations for playtesting the next expansion for Puppets Wars Unstitched.

Before posting in this thread (or in similar threads), takea look at Justin's great post covering how to post good feedback: http://justindrawingdead.com/?p=49 It's important to point out though, that what works for M2E might not work for PWU. They're differen games and have slightly different design philosophies. But whatever the gameis, don't expect change if you don't supply ample evidence.

And this the thread to do so. It doesn't have to be a battle report, but any feedback here should refer to real game events and not just theory (there's a thead for that). And for those of you struggling to find opponents, check out Vassal on the PWU website.

So get out your needles and stitch up some feedback =]

Edit: Another bit of advice from the M2E playtest. Try playtesting a toybox with just W1 puppets against one containing a selection of W2 puppets, see how they compare.

So I want to just lay down some foundations for playtesting the next expansion for Puppets Wars Unstitched. Find the puppets here.

First I'd like to seperate the theory from the evidence. So this thread is for first impressions and posting general hypotheses. To make this worthwhile, and not just a dumping ground for useless feedback, players can come to this thread and pick up a hypothesis to try out, posting their evidence in the other thread. That way we are able to go through a process without getting tangled up in our stitching.

So get your thinking thimbles on and share your thoughts =]

I'll start, i'll focus on the new masters for now.

Lucius

I can see a lot of potential with him. The first thing that grabbed me was his Divided Loyalies ability, allowing him to ignore either a :rams or :masks in the Animation Requirement of a Puppet within Range 3. At first this seems a huge advantage. However, Puppets in Unstitched are generally far easier to animate than in the previous edition, and unlike other masters, he is limited by range (which conflicts slightly with the mobility of the mask puppets).

Looking at the rest of his card, it becomes clear that Lucius has a very defensive, tight formation playstyle. Guild Hound seems an auto-include with him on first impressions - it gives him combat 4 and the potential to reactivate, while he sews it up and can make it perform an action without exhausting. Pulling Strings is the first thing I would try and break, as it doesn't state that the cost of the action must be paid (like it does with Malifaux Cherub's Can't Say No to You). I suppose Lucius' downside is that he works best in tight formation, but if he does so then he's sacrificing board control. Will be intesting to see if it's possible to get a mobile formation going. But overall, I like his flavour and think he's on the right tracks.

Colette

Change Outfit is exactly what I would expect from her, since Tomes have always had more affinity for upgrades than other suits. Magical Threads is interesting, as I wouldn't think of Colette as someone I want to get into combat with, but then with an upgrade limit of three she is quit adaptive. Cassandra is an obvious combo, not just because of the thematic ties, but the combination of Magical Threads with Southern Charm. I look forward to playing Colette, as I think she'll help place a little more focus on upgrades, which have always been a fun, if illusive part of the game.

Marcus

My favourite master from 1st edition, so I'm clearly biased. Saying that, I wasn't too pleased with when I first looked at him. The idea of passing Burning from puppet to puppet sounds like fun, but it seems better placed on Sonnia or Kaeris (or Iggy, or Firestarter, or... you get the idea). I was very fond of my Stuffed Animals in 1st edition, and am sad to see no synergy with them. However, sticking with the positives, Tag Your It has a lot of potential once you look beyond Burning. So overall I'm torn with Marcus. I think he could prove really effective, but lacks some of the animal kingdom flavour I loved before. Still, will give him the benefit of the doubt when I test him.

Pandora

She caused a lot of woe in 1st edition, and not for all the right reasons. That said, I like her. Tangled Memories might not be quite as effective as it would've been in 1st edition (and Lucius and other mask masters can just ignore it), but I can see it coming in handy. Spooky Whisper is nice to, though I can see myself fielding fast puppets against her, so I can hit her then run away. On the face of it she looks like one of the weakest masters, but she does have a suprising upgrade limit of three, making her almost as adaptive as Colette, plus I think her toybox plays a big part in her strategies.

These are just first impressions, I'll start thinking about what tiybox to take with each.

After I got my game, I really wished Puppet Wars could be more in the spotlight. It always seems so much in the far background of wyrd games.

Agree 100%.

I know Wyrd are super busy with M2E and Through the Breach, both of which have larger, demanding fan bases, but we puppets can't be forgotten either. Puppet Wars is not Evil Baby Orphanage, it requires community and support to really succeed.

That said, I am hopeful that wave 2 will bring PWU to a whole new level. With six Masters to choose from, multiplayer battles are going to be even better, plus they'll be 10 Sidekicks and a massive 72 Pawns to mix and match. Puppet Wars really is the Pick'n'Mix of wardgames (that's wargames played on a board... it'll catch on, you'll see).

Beyond planning for the next wave, all Wyrd really need to do is supply the odd non-miniature expansion (new boards, etc) or scenario/optional rules in Chronicles (playing in a room that's on fire, playing in an orphanage with evil babies, Terraclip rules, etc).

No problem, I've been absent from these forums for awhile and this gave me the chance to write a wall'o'text like the days of old =P

Your point is true, as most of my solutions would require a puppet to suffer a rip to reanimate, or in the case of the Acolyte, sacrificing it altogether. But most of them are designed to counter Misaki after she has made her move. Naturally the preference is to free up your workbench so your not being pinned to it out of fear.

And thank you for reanimating the forum =] As far as I'm aware this is the only place to discuss Puppet Wars. I know everyone's been focussing on M2E (and I've been distracted by Arena Rex), but hopefully we can get start getting some wave 2 playtesting done and share our feedback here. Also feel free to share any other combos/tactics you can think of.

Nice to see PWU get Vassal, I'm just sad that it won't work on my new Android tablet =[

Been looking forward to wave 2 for awhile, glad to see it's finally on the way.

Initially I was disappointed to see only three new models (Lucius, Colette and Cassandra), but then I realised just how awesome all these models will look in plastic (Ice Golem, Moleman, Mature Nephilim, Guild Hound...), so I'm happy =]

Looking over the rules, I mostly like what I see. The only exception is Marcus.I like the mechanic he's got going, but it feels more suitable on Sonnia/Kaeris. Bring back Roar! I say =] My big criticism of PWU at the moment is all these characteristics that aren't being used - Stuffed Animal, Emo, Sparkly, etc.

I think this wave will be a huge benefit to PWU, supplying the true level of variety that we enjoyed so much in the original. I can't wait to preorder =]

I might not be the best player in the world, I'm not even that competetive, but I would certainly describe myself as a veteran of Puppet Wars (original and Unstitched). The below is of course just my opinion.

Firstly, in any game there is the chance of achieving a Fool's Mate, but that is more to do with the disparity between players than their forces.

Secondly, Puppet Wars' principle concerning balance has always been "balance through imbalance". It's a brutal game that has lots of nasty, brutal tricks that help the game self-balance. You'll come across a few of these (though not necesarily limited to the early stages of the game), but for each one there are multiple counters based on whatever you have at your disposal. I'll concede that the game can have a slightly steeper learning curve for some people, but suffering sudden, brutal defeats is something we all get to enjoy sooner or later =]

In regards to activation, there are a few things to note. First you have to get a high card in your hand, which may be your only high card (and you'll have to cycle through the whole deck to get it again). Then there's the chance the opponent plays a card that is equal or higher. Remember that if the cards are equal then initiative is determined randomly and not by the Puppets' Activation Requirement. So straight off the bat you are taking a gamble that could leave you vulnerable to counter-attack. Of course your opponent won't know for sure how vulnerable you are, but that's all part of the fun =]

So let's just say that you have Misaki and I have to animate first. Here are all the options I have:

• Animate an Austringer, later I can give it Powerful +1 with Lady Justice and attack Misaki at range 3.
  
• Death Marshal, same as Austringer only Range 2.
  
• Executioner, can just keep him adjacent to the workbench in a position that forces you to move into an adjacent space with him to get to my workbench. This way I can animate more puppets and have a way to react to Misaki while also deterring her from causing a rip to herself (since Executioner will then tear her apart in one hit).
  
• Punk Zombie, same as Austringer and Death Marshal only range 1, but has the added bonus of being able to counter attack Misaki.
  
• December Acolyte, if I have the cards, I can do Filled with Needles to inflict 2 automatic rips, again making Misaki unable to activate again, and leaving my workbench unoccupied for me to deploy another puppet (Austringer).
  
• Razorspine Rattler, Range 2 Paralyze aught to keep Misaki in her place, allowing me to do my thing without having to worry about her till the next turn.
  
• Convict Gunslinger, Puppet Roulette is fun regardless of the outcome =]
  
• Now if I had the luck of going second I could animate Silurid or Ronin to try and get to a workbench before Misaki. Silurid is fun because of its high defense, so that high card played at the start of the game could bite the Misaki player on the pin cuishon

You might point out most of these options don't actually get rid of Misaki, but that's not the objective. All I need to do is neutralise her in whatever way fits my purposes, such as freeing up my workbench so I can animate puppets and avoid being overwhelmed. If I just focus on her, then I'm merely allowing my opponent to pull off other nasty, brutal tricks. If Misaki is Parayzed, Confused, Stuck, reduced to one stitich, then she is no longer a threat until turn 2, by which point I have other puppets out to play as aggressively/defensively as I desire.

And remember, the above are all pawns, just to show you don't need Sidekick B to counter Sidekick A. If I was to use a Sidekick, Bete Noire could do Sense Stuffing since Misaki will have an Exhausted Token (if the space between Workbenches is 5 spaces). Hooded Rider is an obvious counter, though is as reliant of the high card as Misaki. Rusty Alyce is also a relatively safe bet, though maybe better a second/third activation as she'd likely be camping on workbench waiting for Misaki and you'll want to get as many puppets out as possible.

The main problem with these sort of things is they focus on a couple of factors and ignore the rest of the game, like what other puppets are being animated by the Misaki player as well as the layout of the board.

That last point is of course the key one. If Misaki is such an issue, move the starting workbenches further apart. Plus not every game has to have a centre workbench; I myself like to have a workbench on each flank where one is more accessible to one player than the other. Making it easier or harder to get those extra workbenches should help mix things up.

On top of all that, there is also drafting to consider. If you draft, then you'll be able to pick the puppets you feel work best against Misaki and whatever else the opponent takes, or you can focus more on denying your opponent of the puppets they need. If you feel their is a combo that is too effective, swap forces and see how player skill comes into the equation. Worst case scenario you just take Misaki out of circulation, or just house rule.

One more thing! Upgrades

If Disney's taught me anything, it's that beastiality is okay so long as a talking candelabra says so =]

I finally got a job last week, but I don't get paid till January. If I had the money I'd have grabbed Sonnia, Marcus, Ramos, Nephilim and whatever else took my fancy. Sad panda =[

That said, I have just worked 62 hours over five days (including a 14hr day with one 30min break), while sustaining some minor injuries, so I'm going to laugh in the face of my bank balance and pick up Marcus anyway. Happy panda =]

If my local players plan on getting anything then I wonder whether it'd be better to group orders to try and get multiple copies of Alt. Perdita or a single Santana.

The indication that it'll be Perdita and Nicodem in February does make me wonder when Gremlins are going to see the light of day. Silurids first though =P

If anything, I think it would help players get a better idea of what theme Wyrd are going with some of the new masters. Mah Tucket especially seems to be sending mixed signals, art would help clear that up. That said, I want to see Ironsides =]

Heard back from my "local" shop. His supplier said they'll have it mid-late November. So it seems to be on its way. In the meantime I might just buy more models (it's all part of Wyrd's plan...)

I'm waiting for a copy of Zombicide since 30 september.

That may be CMON's fault (don't know if Wayland rely on them). My Sedition Wars KS pledge took months (and a lot of emails) to get to me, and I'm still waiting on the delivery of my mispacks (9 items missing is just a joke).

I guess if KS has taught me anything, it's how to wait =P

Yeah, I kinda figured most of the problems lay with the distributers/retailers. Though perhaps updated pictures with a digitally added M2E sticker would help online retailers (or rather those who shop online). Sure they could state in the product description that it's M2E, but then that would make too much sense.

Since I'm going to have to wait for the rulebook, I might pick up some models instead (Rail Golem: "I chew chew choose you"). I'll be sure to tell my "local" retailer to make sure the stock he gets have the M2E stickers.

I suppose it helps that the only game that competes for my attention atm is still playtesting (that sexy beast that is Arena Rex)

But if you have to queue too long at the Chinese, then maybe some will go for Mexican instead?

"Let them eat fajitas!" - Nathan Caroland (a direct quote I do believe )

My group have generally got on fine without the rulebook. The core rules are easy to memorise. We do tend to ignore or simplify the rules for terrain though, and keep things nice and casual. The lack of rulebook only really hurts those with old models and no arsenal deck (though the solution is in the problem there) or tournament/serious players who want to play the game 100% pure and correct. For me, I want the assurance that I do actually know the rules, plus I look forward to having all the profiles and some new fluff. That I can wait for. If a rules issue does come up, I'll come here for my answers.

EDIT: I spotted the rulebook on Table Top Miniatures. It's not ideal for those outside the US (shipping for me was almost as much as the book), but it seems to be in stock.

I was literally just about to buy the rulebook from Wayland when I read this.

They say it's available, and ships between 3-9 days, but then I don't trust what they say anymore.

I think Gencon was a clear indication of just how popular M2E is. Considering how fast the stock they had with them at the show went, I can only imagine what the online orders during and after Gencon must have been like. My guess is they got their estimation wrong of what stock they would need.

At least the game looks to have a healthy appetite =]

That's what I feared. Wayland Games never has been very good at providing information, I mean they have the plastic Rotten Belles up for preorder alongside a picture of the metal models.

A store did open recently, not too far from me, so I might be better off getting in touch with them. Guess that way I get the assurance I need and support a local store at the same time. Win win =]

But for future note, I don't know what info Wyrd give retailers, but it might be in their interest to ensure some of the sillier mistakes (see above) don't occur.

Now as far as I am aware, the book 4 plastics from wave 1 now have M2E stat cards in them.

I did pick up the Rail Crew before, but my friend has the 10T arsenal deck so it's fine. However, I do want to pick up the Rail Golem and Metal Gamin without needing the Arcanist arsenal deck, and I figure if they do have the M2E cards then everything should be dandy.

But my question is, what indication is there that these sets are M2E? On the Wyrd store the front of the box is the same as M1E, so the only indication is that it's in the M2E section and not M1E. However, I am buying from Wayland Games and they have no such seperation. Did Wyrd recall stock or am I supposed to determine whether the stock they have is the remains of M1E or just M2E?

I figure this must have been answered elsewhere, but it's no doubt buried under discussions of the arsenal decks.

Marcus is amazing, cost/points value and quality, its got it all. I was planning on buying the starter and Cojo, but now I can get an extra Rattler instead. Thank you very much Wyrd =]

The Nephilim are fantastic, and such great value too. Easy for grow lists too since you'll probably maintain a ratio of 2:1 young and mature regardless how many you get (two for me I think).

Sonnia looks great. Really happy with the revised Samuel, such a badass, wasn't digging his previous version. Only gripe is that the Witchlings, which look great, also look like full grown men scaled down in size. Regardless, was toying with the idea of picking Sonnia as my Guild Master, and this starter pushed me over the edge (might help me wait for Marcus).

Pandora is a master I've never been interested in, but her crew looks awesome. If my friend wasn't likely to buy her I'd be really tempted to pick her up myself.

Ramos is another surprise, didn't expect Langston in there. Still not a fan of Ramos himself, but Langston and the Arachnids are winning me over.

McMourning looks brilliant as expected, love the Flesh Construct. Only getting one Canine Remains seems odd, but it's one more than we might have suspected. Got to love the Zombie Chihuahua =]

So that's 2-3 new crews for me, plus some reinforcements for Lilith. Happy days =]

Looking forward to Opheilia, Gremlins in general and Zoraida (for the Silurids).

I'd be interested, I suppose. We'll just have to see how things turn out in September =]

I also have at least two players from my local club that might also be interested.