paradox

They don't need all of them, just one stone is enough to stop it. Ca4 vs average Wp of 6-8 on a master. They just need one decent card of any suit to resist. It can be lower than your crow, because theer is a decent chance they have a stone left, if necessary, to stop it. Frankly, as I've stated, I've never once managed it on ANY model, despite trying very hard. I've played games where my whole purpose was to box a model: any model! Didn't work.

With your massive cast of 4, how exactly are you proposing to stuff a master in the box in the 1st place? Hope they have no stones and no high cards in their hand?

The problem I have is that by the time the enemy master is down on stones, Justice has just cut them down... And I have a habit of blowing my high cards out each round in a hail of shots.

Obviously, as the Dark Eldar have finally decided to show! I'm still miffed I never got to transition my Genestealer Cult into 3rd+. But I guess a squad of 14 brood brothers armed with all power fists was a little too OTT.

Yea, NOW they are...

Squats were official in 40k 2nd ed. Chaos Dwarfs were official as late as 6th (?) ed. WFB Genestealer cults were in 2nd ed 40K.

Just a note: I have tried LIKE MAD!!!!!!!!! (like, Mel Gibson mad....) to get Pine Box to work. Even just once! The last time I tried, I dropped a Red Joker on the cast...it still failed. After that, I quit. Pine Box is a totally worthless ability, unless you want to pack your own guys up (which is fairly cheesy and only something I'd do in a tournie). It's too bad, but you are better off just forgetting they even have it. After a dozen or so games of trying, it has only left me bitter, disillusioned and disappointed.

Squats? Chaos Dwarfs? Genestealer Cults? I'm sure there's more.

Wow, so they are finally going to make dark eldar into an army?

You'd have to pry my marshals from my cold, dead fingers. The stalkers are nifty, but just don't do it for me. Plus I've had my marshals pile out plenty o damage, so they do offense just fine IMO.

Bowen: The short answer is "All proxies are subject to approval, please bring a stock replacement just in case. " There is an outside chance I can attend this dance. I'll figure it out.

30-35ss seems to take 1 1/2 to 2 hours, if both people have a general handle on the game, at least arond here. That's a tad longer than a "typical" sized game of, say, Warmachine might take locally (35 or 50pts in about 1 hour to 1 1/2 hours), but shorter than playing a "typical" Warhammer or 40K game will (2000 to 2500pts in about 3 hours). Of course, time also depends on how much D!#king around you do and/or how many rules questions Mav or Nerd gets if you're playing them.

I like the way it currently plays. It was dumb before. This way both jokers are trump cards, but the black is still the higher trump.

+1 for CCR!

No reason to play book 1, it's all in book 2 anyways, but more and improved (somewhat). I'll likely be slinging the WM/H, but we'll see.

Focus your fire on one neph at a time. You can kill one in a round easy.

Never played a brawl, but that said, I picked up Perdita specifically because I feel she would be horribly abusive alongside Justice in a 2-master game.

I was thinking this for Justice [ame] [/ame]

Then at that price I'm definitely alot closer. Still have to watch the cash flow though.

All my games vs Lilith have been with Justice, So I can't say much other than what's already been said. With Perdita, it seems like Papa Loco running meatshield/interference is a no-brainer. If you get hit by the transpose trick, you ought to be able to down the neph between Perdita and Nino.

Definitely Maybe. What's the cost on these? And I assume the foam is separate?

I think one mistake I often see people make in alt activation games is take a small force of expensive models. There is really power in having MORE activation than the other guy. This is, IMO, where the real power lies in a gremlin force. In my experience, the sheer number of shots nd bodies a gremlin force can have can drag down an elite enemy. I've played Perdita only once, but even her box has 5 models and some of those are expendable/throwaway activations (unless you just have the whole family go) where others are great 1st activaters, capable of outright killing an enemy unactivated model. But I know Justice far better, so I'll talk about that. Justice also has 5 models. If I'm playing a box game, I use the Judge as a speed bump and stagger the marshalls. The Judge is a big threat that alot of people fear, but his range is shorter and he's not as efficient at range as melee, so I like to get him up there and let him soak it up. The marshalls are FANTASTIC at piling on ranged damage. They can drop similar 4 stone models in two shots pretty easier with crit strikes. And I get 3. After the Judge makes a threat move, the marshalls can begin to respond to enemy positioning, laying down a field of fire that can allow them to threaten an equal number of weaker models or combine to beat up on a harder threat. These guys in numbers are the real power of the Justice set. They are the mid-turn activaters that are going to be cranking out most of the damage while people are ignoring them in fear of Judge/Justice. Justice is the last piece. She's normally the model I activate last (we'll get to that in a minute). She's also the one most people worry about. But she is really my clean-up crew. Early and mid-game she doesn't do much but threaten. It's her imminent activation that seems to make most of my opponents sweat it out over what to do. She hasn't gone yet and there's the Judge in their grill with 3 marshalls laying down cover fire behind. Maybe I'm weird, but I very frequently put Justice on a far flank. The Judge and marshalls come up the middle (sometimes the Judge flanks one way or the other too) and Justiec flanks. This really throws people off. She doesn't seem to be in the game, but she can be in any given turn. It's a HUGE threat that activates last each round and as the game grinds on and they get weaker, it gets scarier. And that's the power of a fast, heavy flanker. Justice is a death machine with a solid defense (plenty of stones to stop damage + riposte for melee). She's a weight hanging over their head every turn, waiting. It forces their activations and tends to let me control the pace. Then, when I've softened them up with a slow advance of marshalls and bullets and stuff in gummed up in the middle and beat up, Justice rolls in and sweeps up the mess. That's when she goes from activating last to first. And that's the other side of it. I mention 5 models cause it matters. In a 30ss game, I can take a Justice box with 5 models, 4 of which are ultimately disposable. BUT, I will often see people take 4-5 models + a healthy amount of stones. This means I am equal or better in activations, and my ranged abilities are often better than theirs and/or I simply have a further range. This lets me get ahead in activatiosn early. Then I can sac a model to force them into a killbox. I can afford to throwaway a model early if need be to force an activation on their end. I often see carefully constructed forces where every model is dangerous and plays a key role in a plan...but each is necessary for that plan. Losing one will often throw it off. But when I can afford to lose a model or to throw one out to die in order to get a leg up on numbers of activations, I will win that game. I think that's why cheap hard hitters, especially cheap ranged hard-hitters are a great tool in alt action games. If you can draw a small elite force into range, you can trade blows in the early turn activations softening up models, then late turn kill them. Once you pull ahead in activatios, you can start beating up unactivated models every turn, further sapping their strength. But throwing that threat model out to draw them into range is key. If you have all threat models and no expendables, it's alot harder to do. Perdita is so sick because Loco and Santiago ar prefect throwaways while Nino and Perdita are great earlier activaters than can hit with little to fear in return. Fransico is a good damage dealer to pick on models drawn in. And then when you're ready, you family up and have one huge activation of death.

Dig it! very nicely done!

When have you successfuly prevent someone from scoring point in Hold Out and how did you do it? When has someone prevented YOU from scoring points for Hold Out and how did they do it? I'm honestly curious. I have not played loads of games, I'll acknowledge that. But in the games I have played, I have only once failed to score points on Hold Out. It was vs Gremlins and a piggy grew wings and flew into my D-zone, then next turn rooted to lose insignificant (which was the last turn of the game). I wasn't able to get a marshall in range in time (everything was shooting up gremlins mid-board). I have only once stopped someone from scoring on Hold Out and it was in the very same game. I was able to run Justice into his D-zone by the last turn, when I realized I wouldn't likely reach the pig. I've successfully cut down/shot up Nephilim with Lilith and speedy/tunneling beasts with Marcus and defended Hold Out. Maybe it's just because Guild has so many guns? Whatever the case, my experience has been that even if they REALLY want to get in my D-zone, it's very hard for them to do without me simply killing the model before they get there. The reason gremlins can do it easier is sheer numbers. I find I can't generate enough attacks to stop them all. So swarming seems the best way to get something in (but swarming type lists tend to also be full of soft models, so killing those that do make it in is easier). I would love to know some tricks for denying Hold Out though.