Magno

Hopefully Avatars aren't like the summoned elementals from confrontation; basically a free powerful model. But Mali has been doing a lot of summoning from the beginning all essentially require acquisition or sacrificing of in game resources and from the description of Avatars that doesn't look to be any different so the only true question is whether the Avatars don't bust open power levels in the game. About the only way to start in army creep is if units or 20+ Soulstone cost models are introduced.

1. Get a wet pallet 2. Dilute your paints. Start off at 50-50 ratios, dilute more when you want to move onto washes, juices, dark lining and glazes. 3. Get two good lights with white or daylight bulbs. Try and fix one above and over your shoulder. 4. Practice different brush strokes; perpendicular, light sweeps, etc. Don't get frustrated, the best moments of learning your own style is.often through mistakes, its a great way to discover.

Yeah, I know but he's about the only Neverborn type model that works with Rezzurs and he pops out of dead/sacrificed things like he's been ressurected.

The only way I would want to see an Egyptian Rezzur in the mix is if there were a traveling museum exhibit with a mummy/pharoh of some kind that had dormant life essence and the catalyst to come back to life is through the breach or Nicodem's involvement in his quest for better rezzing. The mummy/pharoh awakens and is a serious loose cannon, would love to return to Egypt but naturally his powers are limited to the realm of Malifaux, so he starts pulling Egyptian-esque elements into Malifaux. His niche is that he is less sensitive to Arcanists or is a counter toward the the straight magical masters. And more Native Americans would be quite cool. *Edit, on second thought this is probably a bad idea. To far fetched and genre clashing for him to be a master. Maybe just a unique minion.

@Nerd, yeah, I'll be at GC. Flying in now so miniature space is limited. I'm bringing some HD, Mali and of course that other game I'm kind of into. Only painting comp I'm entering is Mali. I think I'm satisfied with the point I made at the other company, now I can sit back and just paint the models I like and play. Plus, the only minis I can legally enter are Mali minis since I blew a whole year's worth of painting at GengihsCon and another local comp. Never published them but they've already been entered. Only non-entered minis are Mali minis and I've been saving those for GC.

(1) Man-Hug (CC: 14/ Rst: Wp -4/ Rg: 3ft) All living male models are pushed to the nearest bar and one enemy Magno in range is oblidged to buy a round of drinks.

Well the second book was superior to the first I must say. So then a new fluff question; why have the Rezzers not found ample ways to Rez Newborn beyond Killjoy?

I mean more on "feel" I guess. I wouldn't worry about stats, or necessarily some of the abilities. More along the line of the feel, look and tone of the character. You go through the books' art and see varying tones of art, style, energy, and tone. So far so good, it all melds decently together and the masters and minions all have recognizable/identifiable places in their factions. The last book pushed forth the feel of the factions but maintaining a good level of cohesion. Some other systems get to points where you see the creative juices sputtering and there are WTF? moments. Like Templars in the Cygnar army, Squats in 40k, arguably Highlanders in Infinity. I guess, I'm just wishing the best to you guys that you avoid a "new Coke" moment.

Oh, I never left. I just went into lurker mode after GenCon '09 and activate only around GenCon. We've finally gotten a stable Malifaux group here in the ABQ area. Already have a small post GenCon event planned where prizes are GenCon goodies.

The rage at me has more to do with my comments on the game design methods and approach and some other assertions on how the game is played and its similarities to WM. Some I still maintain, some I stand corrected, some in hindsight (by merit that tone is difficult to interpret in text and easily misinterpreted), I should have made more gracefully in respect to some members here.

<sharpening the insissors> muauahahahaha! @ Nerd boy Bowen, The fluff is great, you know my thoughts on this. I'll take this opportunity to ask a more general question on your geek sessions during planing, vision and design. Mali attracts alot of different folks because there are varying genres at play here. Some folks will say, "I don't like xxx and feel it has no place in the setting or it feels out of place." Despite that, they still find something alluring in Malifaux and run with it, but for the most part no one feels the creativity is too bloated and over reaching for its own good. Do you guys feel that you have plenty of room for artistic creativity and maintaining a Malifaux 'feel'? Some other systems in their later years begin to suffer from an identity crisis of tone, setting, or genre or begin drawing inspiration from places that they probably shouldn't. One of the major challenges you guys will have in future expansions is new character creation that differentiates. Some other systems release characters and when you look closely at them, they're the same as another. In the second book we got Kirai; Japanese spirits mixed in with the previous psycho-style re-animators. I thought that was done well. Same with Colette and the dreamer. Is there healthy dialogue amongst you guys to balance between new and creative characters, genre blending and from simply getting too goofy? I.e., start throwing in vampire elves, goth blobs, or say orcs.

Mo not the one I'm referring to, but I never knew that.

@ Hookers, There is one game where you don't need the "best" models to win or be competitive. It more the mechanics that enable the balance, some like it some hate it. Take it ofmr leave it.

Diplomatic and easy, nice. <bwaarrrr-bwarrrrrrr> Ok, how about I throw some "poo" with peppermint and glitter. Undeniably, after every game of Malifaux, despite any misgivings we have of the game that just unfolded, we always feel the same way, "lets play again." Strange predicament. I play Warmachine once and I'm satiated for a year and immediately think, "Why haven't I sold this last army?" I look at a mini of Malifaux and see a personality floating around that model, a story waiting to be told, a compelling need to see it interact and narrate something on the tabletop. No other game has this same affect. I guess this is why I hammer on about something different about events. When I see imbalances in the game I don't think the designers did a bad job, I see what are these folks setting up for us that other games and their imbalances seem to simply scorn me. The imbalances in Malifaux don't seem accidental, they feel intentional and coordinated. Again, another reason why I hammer on about something beyond what other games can offer. I've stated similarities to WM (an assault to folks creative endeavors and efforts I see that), but I've also stated separations and evolutions that to me are still to be explored.

If the game designers have openly said, "the balance is in the factions", then that to me is an admonition that the game is not meant for competitive play at a singles game level. That to me says either that is a fire-fighting statement to deal with imbalance or that they've had bigger plans from the beginning, but we've yet to see those plans come to fruition. It may seem like I'm singling out Malifaux, but believe me its just tough love. We can fire up a discussion about some other game systems and I'll fire up my chainsaw.

PanO is the easiest army to use for beginners if all they want to do is shoot. OP? No, because they will get owned by experienced players with almost any list. HMGs do not break the game. You can simply avoid the HMG nests and force that opponent to move to another position if he wants to put that HMG to use, setting traps along the way or catching him at an inopportune time. Cordinated orders, camo, AD troops, hackers, smoke, infiltrators, template weapons, fireteams, suppression fire, parabolic fire, snipers, and simple critical hits are all equally affective against an HMG. Terrain does make a difference in the game, its essential to the balance. That is one of the biggest drawbacks of Infinity because it makes it resource intensive to get a game fired up.

@Godspeed, D&D-ish? Ok. No need to expect a diverse turnout if it's sign-up and at a place like GenCon the Malifaux population is large enough to fill that sign-up. "every tourney will have 3-4 people playing the same master and a handful of masters not seeing daylight." --Ever more reason to have an alternative. "This would be much more suitable for basement dwellings and pre-planned gaming days with a group that knows the goal ahead of time." --Why suitable for a basement? Has this ever been attempted? I'm a crusader!! I will walk this land challenging the establishment!! ATTICA, ATTICA!

This is the mentality I challenge. Imagine a format folks pay into and in return they walk away with no sour tastes, a feeling of accomplishment at something created or achieved in unison. Not necessarily cooperative, but maybe simply overcoming the balance issues. @Nerd, I'll be at GenCon, so I'll be there to apologize to you info. I'll stand here corrected and start scrubbing the poo off the walls. But how do you know players "want" the tournies? Have you tried other events? The larger turnout for your events are because folks just like Malifaux. You have only tournaments listed for Malifaux. Think about your statement, if you weren't at the booth, you probably wouldn't play in the tournaments. Why not? Not your thing? Not mine either and not a lot of other people's. GenCon is a place to run unique events, especially since much of it is sign-up. After a few tournaments at GEnCOn and Pande, I really wanted to play Malifaux last year at GEnCon but couldn't stomach devoting hours of precious event time to something that is simply a bigger version of the same old same old with the intensity of competition heightened. I did however play a lot of pick-up games with the new crews. Also, why hold tournaments with just released stats and units? "Hey everybody, new units, new models, no go WIN!" That is another mixed message of trying to have fun. You'll have half the people wanting simply to casually explore the new stuff and the other half bloodthirsty to dominate with it. Setting up tournaments like that only provides a vehicle for the competitive players to do their thing. Example of a story event: 20 players 5 factions 4 players per faction, each wielding a different master, so you have essentially four player teams. Event is 4-5 rounds. Round#1: you pit one master from each faction against one of the other factions. The scenarios/locations are pre-set. Each scenario has consequences that lead into the next round based on how players performed. In subsequent rounds, players rotate to play a different faction, that way they each play one of the other factions. But, scoring isn't just a summation of each factions performance, maybe each faction is trying to accomplish a communal goal of some kind (like a "Choose your own adventure book"), something linked to the fluff or a future story line. Something that also affords cross-faction collaboration to deny another faction its goal. Each round of scenarios are catered/driven by the results of the previous round adjusting the asymmetry with the location events or objectives. Something so that end of the event, all the players are slapping each other on the back and reminiscing about the story they all just created. You could have prizes, medals for the best faction if need be, but players that didn't fare well by the standard tourney format, still have a level of accomplishment. Some of the "weaker" players would be more than satisfied that they have something to contribute and don't feel pressured to perform or give up after loosing the first round. This would be monumental to set-up but would be epic and something truly to remember and something that could be done only at a venue like GenCon.

How about that both games have distillation of list building. (also common in a lot of other games), but very pronounced in both Malifaux and WM. Avatars coming out. "Epic" masters anyone? Are these design elements that are hard to avoid? Maybe. Does this mean that Malifaux should limit itself that same path. No. If the new book comes out and has more game breaking masters that shift the scene, more of the same tourney formats, then its same old, same old with a different skin. I'm not feeling lynched or defensive, I just can't tolerate the die-hard, blindly devoted-lacking-any-real rebuttal responses that are 80% of a thread. Yours not included. This feels like a discussion. Mmmmm-satisfying. And challenges me to learn and think about my own comments. If you think I'm defensive or a hard ass here, come over to the Infinity forums. I do a lot of drop-kicking of ass-holery commentary there too.

<storms in throwing sh*t all over the walls and pees in the punch-bowl> AHAHAHAH! Just kidding folks, but let me wash some of this irony and hypocrisy off first. First off to everyone here, I......like....Malifaux. A lot. I pack ten crews, have played a lot, have run many a demo and event, have promoted this game in MIchigan after its release and also here in New Mexico, two years later. I have made 4 tables worth of Malifaux specific terrain and actively steered people to try the game out in the LGSs. Does this mean that I have to like everything about Malifaux? Should I agree that it is the greatest thing since string bikinis? No. In fact complacency and blind devotion are the surest way to let a game (or any product) rot away into obsolescence or inferiority. @ Jens, I'm very critical of many a system. I have standards like a prissy prom queen. I'm not openly trying to convince anyone of any superiority of any system at the Infinity forums. Unless you want to talk about 40k, then I'll gut that thing for the abomination it is. But I've helped sell many a Malifaux product while PLAYING INFINITY. But I'm not gonna send someone to the cash register without some forewarning. I also turn people away from Infinity if it matters. @LamWyrd, winning does not equal validation of a games ability to be competitive. If you guys are winning all the time, there is no competition. Competition, the nasty side of it, the sour taste it can concoct are its own discussion, but anyone here who claims Malifaux is a balanced system is lying to themselves. Does every game need to be balanced? No. in fact asymmetry can be one of the most rewarding formats to play a game. But to have rankings, bracket tournies and leagues based on asymmetry is not how you should expect folks making equal investments to compete. To flaunt competition and your success thereof via an unbalanced system with paper-scissor-rocks, that's missing the point. @Nerd, man o man do I feel ashamed that I have to discuss things like this with you here, but I owe it to some of the folks here at this forum to discuss this in the open. First, much of my opinion is based on my observations and discussions with not just you but many folks over at GenCon, Chicago and Michigan. If multiple systems and genres playtest like this, then I say they all suffer from the same issues. If you're gonna endeavor to develop a game under those premises, then there needs to be superb management of those resources, communication and info exchange. Trust me buddy, this isn't just a gaming issue, this is running any kind of intellectual development project. I had to do this at Ford, GE, NASA and now for the DoE. If you bake in low quality to a product, you're doomed to fight it till the bitter end. Second, "two thousand people are bound to find more things than 40 people." Agreed. Especially when you establish right off the bat a highly asymmetric game, where almost every character and minion has their own rules. With this in mind, if the system still had all the errata issues it did, then it was still rushed. Was it the right business move at the time to release it, ohhhhhh yeah. We've talked about that. But those are crosses you guys have to bear and will be something you guys will be wrestling with for years. You've built that into the game. So why fall to the pitfalls of most every other game? Why not continue the innovation? Something for which I give you guys enormous credit. My apologies for not making that clear at the CB forums. The game is "character driven", right? You have compelling characters, linked stories in the fluff, brewing drama, tension, but this isn't necessarily captured on the tabletop. The game isn't anymore story driven than any other system. Why not have events or tournament formats where consequences are felt throughout the event? Where every player cares what took place on the other tables? Where the consequences of one round dictate the flow and set-up of the next round and present new asymmetries and obstacles for those characters to oversome? Why does a tournament have to have a single winner? Why a winner at all? Why continue the zero-sum game of competition? This is where Malifaux IMO could seriously separate itself from the pack and you have the seeds to do that. I still stand by my opinion that Malifaux and Warmachine are very similar. If the competitive tourney format is still pushed, then the similarities and fan attitude only strengthens those similarities. If you pooled all the fantasy skirmish games into a room, these two would be like fraternal twins. I'll challenge anyone to debate this. Could they be more different. Yes, very much so.

Along the lines of Tannhauser, hmmm, that is a pretty adequate way of putting it. It still looks more like a miniatures game. Putting it on a board is suppose is technically correct. But I don't see what's gonna stop folks from using their existing Malifaux figs to play. The minis are on the same bases. The abilities are very similar. I almost thought Wyrd was gonna come out with new items as the puppets.

$85 for a boardgame better be a heavy boardgame. Given that the game is supposed to be "lighter than Malifuax" I assume the minis are white metal. Boosters? I can understand a boardgame expansion, but boosters? Waves of releases? I think you guys just broke the genre of what's typically thought of as a boardgame.

How is an unbalanced game not the creator's fault? Study game theory and you'll find that any game will have the players searching for an equilibrium in both competitive and cooperative games. And every war game is a zero sum game with the caveat that the return is that both players have a good time. But having a good time is also conditional to most of us via winning. So all the players are doing is finding the natural equilibrium of the system at hand. If you design a system that promotes winning and losing, then you're also responsible if the game's balance is extremely easy to tilt. Make a more robust game to instabilities, and more sensitive to player's needing to develop a good strategy. There are a fee games out there that are remarkably balanced.

That's looking pretty good. How well do the models stay in place on those inclines? A semi-glossy surface might allow them to slide easily if bumped or the table shakes.

That's a good idea. A lot of other companies will ship magazines and books in a large plastic seal-able bag. But why was your box wet? Was it delivered wet? Or was it left outside in the rain by the postman?