Malifaux Writhing Mass at 1 WD + Hamelin

[Mmacneil]

This came up again, so I thought I'd ask. My local henchman informed me how this should work and even pointed me to the right place in the FAQ, but until I have a thread to this effect and perhaps more evidence, it isn't flying with my other gaming groups:

So, my question is based on the Writhing Mass ability that Malifaux Rats have.

(0) Writhing Mass says the rat suffers 1 WD and moves into base contact with another rat within 5 inches. Fair enough. Rats have 2 wounds, so I figured this would be a one-time thing and then the rat can't do it any more unless it somehow healed.

But I've played opponents - more than one now - who informed me that because of the errata, Hamelin's rats cannot die on a friendly activation (to prevent endless activating). This would therefore mean the rats could use Writhing Mass endlessly while at 1 wd without ever dying. They referred to, from the FAQ:

Can a model kill or sacrifice itself?

Yes. Unless the Talent/Spell causes a fixed number of wounds and those wounds would drop the model to 0 Wounds

Now, according to the FAQ a model CANNOT do this thing. To me that means "performing the writhing mass action while you have 1 WD left would be an illegal action and therefore rats cannot perform an action that causes a fixed amount of wounds, if doing so would leave them at 0".

The other aspect is, the opposing players have informed me that the Just Rats ability would mean they couldn't die this way since Hamelin would resummon rats and the errata was made to counteract this, specifically: They're Just Rats, which says the model cannot die during a friendly model's activation. However, They're Just Rats says that a model CAN die during its own activation and just doesn't make any rats if it does.

Which of the following is correct?

A) Rats can perform Writhing Mass with 1 WD left, and cannot die as a result.

Rats can perform Writhing Mass with 1 WD left but would die as a result.

C) Rats cannot perform Writhing Mass when they have 1 WD left.

And:

A) Rats can die during their own activations and will not result in another rat being summoned.

or Rats cannot die during their own activation.

I think part of my opponent's confusions have come in when they did the Swarm-activation of the rats and didn't realize they still have to complete each activation in turn (so rat A has a whole activation which must be completed including his walk and writhing mass, then B has a whole activation, they just all happen in a row).

If anyone can clearly answer these, references to errata or past topics on this particular issue, especially the inability or ability to do Writhing Mass with 1 WD left, would be helpful. I was unable to find them other than that one reference in the errata.

[Swan]

"They're Just Rats" states that this model may not be reduced to less then 1 WD during another friendly models activation.

Writhing Mass states that This model suffers 1 WD.

Rats can die during their own activation, so a rat at 1 WD would kill itself if it used Writhing Mass. Since using this ability would kill it (the rat can die on its own activation, just not the activation of another friendly model), a rat with 1 WD would not be able to use Writhing Mass

[Mmacneil]

"They're Just Rats" states that this model may not be reduced to less then 1 WD during another friendly models activation.

Writhing Mass states that This model suffers 1 WD.

Rats can die during their own activation, so a rat at 1 WD would kill itself if it used Writhing Mass. Since using this ability would kill it (the rat can die on its own activation, just not the activation of another friendly model), a rat with 1 WD would not be able to use Writhing Mass

But how does that jive with the FAQ, which says:

Can a model kill or sacrifice itself?

Yes. Unless the Talent/Spell causes a fixed number of wounds and those wounds would drop the model to 0 Wounds.

1 wd is a fixed number of wounds, and a rat with 1 WD left who used it would drop the model to 0 wounds. The errata says a model cannot kill itself this way. What I'm wondering is whether this means "so the ability works but doesn't kill the model" or "the ability cannot be used".

[Ryu]

See page 44 of the rules manual. It answers your main question.

Fixed damage question:

"A model cannot use a Talent or cast a Spell that requires it to inflict Wd on itself if it would reduce its own Wounds to 0."

This is regardless of if it could survive being reduced to 0 wounds (Slow to Die, etc).

[Sliver Chocobo]

I believe the rat would not be able to use the ability as it would cause it's own death

[Csonti]

You pretty much answered your own question in the original post. It is C and A and "the ability cannot be used" respectively.

[Mmacneil]

Well there we go, thanks Ryu, and all of you for helping out. Page 44 of the rulebook and I missed it, which makes me wonder why it needs to be in the FAQ ( obviously lots of people like me missing the original). It just flat out cannot use any ability that would reduce it to 0 if that is a fixed amount. Thanks again.

[CRC]

Don't confuse the FAQ with the Errata.

Errata are changes that the designers make to a game after release to fix issues.

FAQ are questions that come up frequently, and are answered in a single document for convenience. Generally, FAQ answers don't actually change rules, they just answer common questions. Note that several FAQ answers actually cite the rules.