Rules leading to confustion

[SeigeBrisbane]

So I was looking through the FAQ's and seen this one which just caught me off guard.

The dodge rule states.

Dodging:

When an Enemy Puppet declares anAttack Action Targeting one of your Puppets, you have the option to Dodge the Attack. This must be done before the Attacking Puppet Flips cards for the Action. To Dodge, declare the Puppet is Dodging, and then play a card from your Control Hand faceup. For the remainder of the Attack Action, your Puppet’s Df is replaced by the value of the card you Played (both Numerical and Suit Value). All modifiers now affect the Puppet’s new Df.

So if a puppet had a suit INCLUDED in his defense

it is replaced by the suit of the Dodge card, but if the puppet has a mod to his def its combined? This is made clear here

If a Puppet is affected by Seamus' Scary Face Ability and chooses to Dodge, does it keep the

in its Defense gained from Scary Face?

Yes. All modifiers to the Puppet's Defense are also applied to any card with which it Dodges. If a Puppet is affected by Scary Face giving it +

to its Defense, and Dodges with the 7 of Masks, its new Defense is 7

So now we have about 3 difference contradictions or AT LEAST confusions about these rules. First off lets read Seamus's Scary Face rule.

Scary Face (0 + Discard a Card):Rg: in play, Effect: Gain + to target Puppet’s Df. LoS not required.

Now using JUST the rules not the FAQ lets try and make some sense of it.

Effect: Gain + to target Puppet’s Df.

For the remainder of the Attack Action, your Puppet’s Df is replaced by the value of the card you Played (both Numerical and Suit Value).

So scary says I GAIN to target Puppet’s Df, and the dodge rule says your Puppet’s Df is replaced by the value of the card.

Reading that as written, and especially the order of operations it would occur in you would be lead to believe that dodging would replace the suit added from seamus, not combine it, but yet as stated in the FAQ this isnt the case.

When you tell me my puppet GAINS something to his Df then tell me to REPLACE his Df....thats what id be thinking I should do, but thats not the case at all.

Now this is all made 10x worse and more confusing introducing another rule.....hopefully someone is still following me here.

Magical weapon: This Puppet ignores any Suits in a Puppets Df when attacking.

Now, if dodge tells me to REPLACE my puppets DF with the # and suit of the dodge card, BUT the scary face is un-touched, un-replaced, are we lead to beileve now it ISNT a part of the puppets real DF, we HAVE to believe this in order for the FAQ to make sense and the dodge rule to make sense, otherwise it would be replaced.

So now you'r telling me that magical weapon does NOT ignore suits added with modifiers? So it wouldn't ignore scary face? This seems so ridiculous and not the intent, but we have to believe this to make the other cases true.

Pretty much this is my point, the dodge rule AND the magical weapon rule use the SAME verbage for regarding a puppets DF. Thus if when going through the dodge rule when it tells us For the remainder of the Attack Action, your Puppet’s Df is replaced by the value of the card you Played (both Numerical and Suit Value) and yet we dont replace the crow added by scary face, this then confirms that the isnt a part of the Puppets DF or it would be REPLACED, and because it isnt, when magical weapon then says IGNORE all suits in a puppets defence, well guess its not ignoring the because its either in the puppets DF or it isnt we cant ignore it in the dodge rule and address it in the magical weapon if they use the SAME verbage " a puppets DF "

Im pretty darn frustrated here, I love the game but the rules are starting to seem to hap hazard and sketchy.

[karn987]

Your way overthinking this

Your answer is right in what you quoted:

For the remainder of the Attack Action, your Puppet’s Df is replaced by the value of the card you Played (both Numerical and Suit Value). All modifiers now affect the Puppet’s new Df.

Underline is mine, but that is the key part your skipping over.

It tells you right there how to do things:

1) The card you Played replaces the Puppet's Df.

2) All modifiers now effect the new Df.

Don't think of Order of operations here, the rules spell out very clearly how this is supposed to be worked out.

So to go over an example for you:

1) Puppet dodges with a 10:tomes. Their Df is now 10:tomes.

2) All modifiers now effect the new Df. So Scary Face's effect now adds in a +:crows

Df for the attack: 10:tomes:crows

Magical Weapon is very straight forward and again I think your over-thinking this many times over and just confusing yourself. You simply ignore any and all suites in the Df of it's target(s). So going with the above example...

The targets Df is set at 10:tomes:crows but Magical weapon lets you ignore those suites in the Df, so you only need to get at least a 10 of any suit to hit.

Does that make sense?

Edited April 6, 2012 by karn987

[SeigeBrisbane]

I guess the confusing thing is dodge tells me to replace my puppets DF, but doesnt replace the mods, then magical weapon says ignore a puppets def using the same verbage but now includes the mods....ehhh maybe I am over reading but its confusing none the less

Both rules use the same words and variable but the variable (Puppets DF) is treated differently in each

[karn987]

I guess the confusing thing is dodge tells me to replace my puppets DF, but doesnt replace the mods, then magical weapon says ignore a puppets def using the same verbage but now includes the mods....ehhh maybe I am over reading but its confusing none the less

Both rules use the same words and variable but the variable (Puppets DF) is treated differently in each

I agree with you, it can be confusing at times having the same word used like that. They could be tightened up and I've made a note about it to have it looked at.

Essentially you have to think of it like this. When you attack, before the attack flips any cards you need to determine the targets Df for that attack. So you first go through the steps for Dodge and that total becomes the Defenders Df for the Attack (lets call it X). Next the attack flips his card(s), selecting one, and replacing it with one from his/her hand if they want.

Then you go about resolving the attack and that is where Magical Weapon comes into play, it really just cares about that Defenders Df for the Attack (X remember) not actually modifying that Df. Remember, to hit with an attack the Card (+mods) must equal or exceed the targets Df Value & suits. Magical weapon essentially removes that second requirement leaving it as: must equal or exceed the targets Df Value.

So Attackers Attack Card + Mods must = X [Value & Suit]

Magical weapon makes it: Attackers Attack Card + Mods must = X [Value only]

That make it a little clearer?

[SeigeBrisbane]

It does, I'll let this one lay to rest for now