paintand glue question

[zomblaya]

Okay so i'm new to painting so i got some GW paint and washes. And i really don't like how they come out at all. So i'm looking to eather going to reaper or vallejo paints. What would you suggest? And also i have this super thin glue that doesn't hold very well And i'm not sure how to pin with green stuff so what type of glue do you suggest aswell Thanks!

[The Madman]

QUESTION:

are the GW paints labled as "FOUNDATIONS"?

if so

it could be user error

I'm not saying one brand is better than another(Everyone has their own opinion)... just that How you use certain paints can effect the results

Foundations are just that; a foundation color

they are meant to be mixed with water or acrylic medium and blended with other colors to achieve the desired results

[zomblaya]

Nope they all say citidel Color

[The Madman]

Re:Glue

I prefer and have great results with off brand or 'Superglu' brand GEL

fills in gaps small gaps nicely and helps creat a nice overall bond

with someof the other brands like GW's or ZAP-a-Gap

(I refuse to use them)

I find it helps (if you must use their stuff) to use BAKING SODA

not a lot mind you, just lightly dust the exposed wet ares as you are asembling the pieces

the Baking soda helps speed up the reaction and bonding process

[zomblaya]

Ah okay thanks! will try some other kinda supergel or super glue

[The Madman]

Nope they all say citidel Color

well

if you don't like it, you don't like it...

My friends prefer Velajo over Reaper

but also admit you use what you need when you need it

myself I have GW foundations, Testors Poly paints and Military colors

and a few random other bottles of colors i couldn't figure out how to mix on my own

[zomblaya]

Ah well i'll haft to buy a few paints of Foundation and see if i can make a nice blend there although i have like 150 to put into paints which is why i'm asking

[the imp]

When you say you're not happy with your results, what specifically do you mean? Is the paint obscuring detail? Clumping? Not covering well? If you can be more specific, we can give you proper advice.

As for your glue issue, drop by a model train shop or one that specializes in plastic model kits. They'll have a wider selection of glues in several viscosities. I like medium viscosity, but you may want something thicker.

[zomblaya]

Ah hey imp! It's like Taking awhile the detail And looking Plane, Maybe i'm not blending enough but i have done aout 10-20 models and each one i just don't like the look of. So maybe it's probly i'm not blending well enough but theat may or may not be the problem. and the don't seem to actually draw the attention off or show it out So i'm not sure if i'm doing something wrong or what but i'll done about 2 days of watching videos of how tos and used them And found some awesome technuiqes but still not liking how they actually come out.

[the imp]

Got a picture? Even a halfway decent shot with a camera phone would help.

[zomblaya]

Sure, i'll give two examples Though not sure how good they'll come out without a quick setup i'll try finding something white is and enough lighting. Alsoi'm not responsable for your eyes exploading You've been warned

[zomblaya]

sorry imp, i can't get a decent picture without it being eathier blurred or good enough to see it from afar. As i'm using a laptop and can't find my camra will look for it to still show you.

[the imp]

Alright, not a big deal. Another brand of paint might work better for you, or it might not. GW paints are pretty good in general. If you do buy Vallejo, be prepared for them to act a lot differently than you're used to. I recall being very surprised by how quickly they dried, I had to adjust my style to avoid the paint curdling under my brush and ruining the surface I was working on.

From what you describe, I think it's a technical issue. It could be that you're actually over-blending. If you mix too many colors it tends to dull and muddy things. It's one of the reasons why I prefer glazes to wet-blending. Excessive use of washes can have similar issues with it. Devlan Mud gets lots of love on painting forums, but you can have too much of a good thing.

Another possibility is that you're using too many middle values and not enough strong highlights or dark shadows. Keep in mind that your working on a piece that occupies about a cubic inch of space. To make all of the miniscule details crammed onto these figures pop, you've often got to sacrifice realism. Especially if you're evaluating the quality of your work as it appears on the table. Making figures look good three feet away can be pretty challenging and maintaining a high contrast is very important.

No matter what, I hope you'll keep going. 20 models really isn't that many in the greater scheme of things and you may simply be expecting too much of yourself. Painting is a process of continuous experimentation and learning. Even after 15 years, I'm still learning and relearning my techniques.

[zomblaya]

Ahyeah, Thanks again imp! Anyway yeah that's all very true. But i'll try to get a picture and i only like the vallejo paint colors rather than GW and the ranges but i could over blend them aswell. and i wont ever give up i love malifaux too much malifaux too much to do that and 20 models is not awhole lot but i only started july and i have 25 on the bench for if i get new paint or not. And i like the realism but i can sacrfice it, i try to add lines of details to draw the attention here and there but it never works.. Anyway thanks again for your help! guess i'll just try some.

[Magius]

There are a lot of different paints out there to try, and they can have a huge impact on the look of a model. Personally, I use Anita's craft paint (large pot of relatively low-quality paint compared to GW, Reaper, or Vallejo, but only costs $1 for 2-3x the amount of paint, and generally comes out looking pretty good) for most of my models, but I stick with the GW fleshtones for Caucasian skin tones (the generic skintones that I had been using didn't have a very lifelike tone to them, making them look bloodless and pale).

You may also want to experiment with different techniques. Drybrushing (load up your brush with paint, then wipe it on a paper towel before applying to a model) will give you a good looking mini without a lot of effort/time investment, but can really kill your brushes; A Layering/Wash technique takes a little more time and effort, but could also give some good results (either using several similar colors applied dark-bright, or a single translucent color applied multiple times over a black base; both cases using a darker wash to blend the layers together); wet blending can give some incredible results, but is easy to mess up and is a very time-consuming method; a pure wash technique (applying one or more washes over a white primer) can create some very striking results, but it can be more difficult to control where the wash goes than in other methods.

You should also experiment with different base colors for your Primer. The three typically used are Black (provides instant shadows, very forgiving on forgetting to paint a spot, makes it more difficult to get a good contrast, tends to make colors a lot darker), Grey (neutral base, colors stay true to how they're advertised, easy to pick out details before starting to paint), and White (colors come out bright and crisp, takes to washes like it was made for them, unforgiving of mistakes, and is quite easy to create contrasting colors with).

Finally, give it time. It took me hundreds of models for me to refine my technique to the point it is now (a full Warmachine army, a start on Hordes, and half of a Warhammer 40k army before it finally clicked together), and I'm still finding and trying different things to improve.

As for the glue, again, you have many options. You have standard superglue, you have the modeling glue you can get from Hobby Lobby, but the glue that I've found works the best overall is the Gorilla Glue Super Glue. VERY durable, and stands up to a lot of abuse once it dries (well, a lot more than anything else I've tried...). I've had a Dire Troll Mauler fall ~4' headfirst onto a wooden deck without the glue giving - on the other hand, I've had a Khador Behemoth drop about the same distance and break off it's leg (danged single joint holding up that monstrosity). It also has a metal bit on it that keeps the glue channel open and free, which gives each bottle a much longer life than previous bottles (one bottle has handled all of my Warmachine/Hordes and Malifaux minis, with is a substantial amount).

Magius out.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Magius
Forgot to talk about glue! Oops...

[zomblaya]

Ah alrighty, Thanks! And yeah i just painted a mini tonight and the flesh i was using well i was applying wash and it just pooled up on the face and just made me sulk and got to buy a new one now. And yeah 20 models is nothing to compare to most people who play malifaux but this is my first mini game And only started painting in august.

And thanks for the glue advice if gel doesn't work than i'll go for that option.

[Magius]

Another thing to note, instead of buying a new model every time the one you're painting comes out poorly (though you do definitely want to have a good selection of minis to practice with) is a simple investment in a product called Simple Green. Drop a model you've painted and aren't happy with in that stuff overnight, brush off the excess, rinse it off and it's ready to be put back together and painted again (it does tend to destroy the bond from superglue). I would recommend keeping at least one of your early models intact so you have something to measure your progress against. It will make you feel a lot better about the job you're doing.

Another thing to note is that you should never judge how a model is looking until it's done. I've had several cases where I felt the model was looking horrendous halfway through, only to have it look quite good when I've finished.

As for your most recent model, here's something to try:

1) Make sure the wash is dry (this is important)

2) Try taking the flesh tone that you used to base coat the face, and put it on a paper towel with your brush.

3) Run the brush against the paper towel about a dozen times to wipe off the excess paint

4) Lightly and repeatedly run the brush over the face, reloading the brush from the excess on the paper towel if need be (you shouldn't have to if you're just doing the face).

5) Let us know how that comes out.

That should give the face quite a bit more definition, and be a good introduction to drybrushing for you.

Magius out.

[zomblaya]

Ah thanks very much! will buy the simple green Anyway yeah i'll haft to get a pic up or two to show why i don't like it, Eathier way thanks for the tips will keep that in mind for my other 2 box sets i haft to paint. Again thanks!

[kbdrand]

How are you base coating? Are you mixing your paints with water? If so, how much water to paint?

I use mostly Reaper paints (Reaper is local to me and no one around here carries Vallejo, but I get Vallejo when I can), and Reaper works quite well. I prefer it to GW, not because the paint is any better, but because with dropper bottles it is easier to mix paint and water. I use some bottle water and a pipette on a piece of white tile for my mixing.

Make sure for your base coat that you are doing a 1:1 or 1:2 mix of paint to water and do at least 2-3 but preferably more thin coats of paint for the base color. For your first models I would not even worry about blending. Just focus on a really good base coat, then depending upon the color you could follow up with a light wash and be done with it.

[zomblaya]

I don't use water Maybe every so often and i add amybe a drop from the paint brush or two And i don't really base them or shade them very often thanks for the advice!

[Magius]

To expand on the "light wash" comment above, you want to apply just enough of the wash to give the surface you're washing a wet sheen. If you can't make out the details of the model through the wash, you've put it on way too thick, and it will color everything far more than you want. Keep in mind that it's easier to do another wash than it is to take back a wash you've already done.

On the other hand, drybrushing over a wash can go a long ways toward getting the detailed back from an overzealous wash. Just make sure the wash is dry first...

[edit] Well, I think that right there's going to be part of your problem. Unless you're using a drybrushing technique (in which case, the thicker paint generally is better), most paints are generally too thick to be useful out of the pot (Anita's generally isn't too bad, but I digress), and need to be watered down before being used (as explained above). This is especially true as the paint gets older, as the water evaporates from the pot until you're just left with a solid block of unused paint (hopefully years from now, but still something to beware of). IIRC (I generally use drybrushing, so I don't really worry about getting my paints the right consistency), you're looking for something about the thickness of milk, to give it a good base coat.[/edit]

Magius out.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Magius
Ninja'd!!!

[zomblaya]

Thanks Yeah i just added to much and it pooled x.x so i eathier got to buy another or that simple green or any other method Eathier way it ate his face. And i'll keep the tips for my boxes to come!

[Magius]

Let me say again, that you should be able to salvage the model with a good drybrush of the base skin tone over it (I would recommend trying that before you start over on the model). It'll save time overall for it.

Another thing to keep in mind for the future is that if you realize that you've put too much wash on is to immediately grab an unused brush or piece of paper towel and wick away the excess wash. It's not going to get all of the wash (and I generally find this leaves unsatisfactory results), but it will save a little bit of time going back in and redoing everything.

Magius out.

[zomblaya]

i'll try it, But i don't think it'll help but i'll do it cause well there's nothing left to do at this point thanks again!

[Magius]

Final bit of advice on this subject: Seal your model.

Once you've painted your model, the last thing you want to have happen is for the paint to chip off of it. Sealing the model will help prevent that.

There are a lot of options for this step, just like everything else, and you'll need to experiment to find what works best for you. High gloss sealers provide a highly protective finish, but are extremely shiny (much more than you want for most cases), while flat sealers don't provide nearly as much protection. You also need to decide between a dip sealer (many of which also provide some shading, much like a wash, but IME are far too thick for my tastes), a brush on sealer (best balance between coverage and thickness, but is much more time consuming than the alternatives), or a spray on sealer.

For me, what I use is a technique called Bullet Coating, which I apply using the following:

1) Testors Glosscote (Laquer-based glossy sealer)

2) Krylon Crystal Clear Sealer (Acrylic-based glossy sealer)

3) Testors Dullcote (Laquer-based flat sealer)

4) Krylon Sealer (Acrylic-Based flat sealer)

Wait 15 minutes between each coat, and you're good to go. It's relatively expensive, but by alternating between a Laquer and an Acrylic sealer, you ensure that each layer remains separate, making the model much more difficult to chip, and you get the best of both worlds by applying the flat sealers over the gloss sealers (if you've done it right, you shouldn't be able to tell the model's been sealed at all). You can also apply PVA glue over any areas that would be prone to chipping (cape edges, pointing fingers, tips of caps, etc) to strengthen the protection if you want (I've done this on a few models, and it does work rather well).

That should give you models that you can play with for years to come - and you should be able to get a few dozen models sealed before you need to get a new set of cans (though you'll go through ~twice as many cans of Testors than of Krylon, simply because the Testors cans are about half the size).

Magius out.