Miché

2 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Oh, that pretty much gives the answer to this one as well. If you have to measure before you move the model, then presumably you have to do everything else at the same stage.

I think youve just hit the original assumption again (or presumption 🤔).

All I take from those sentences is how to physically measure and move the model, in response to your 1” could be anywhere on the table comment. 

The only restrictions the place rules refer to is that you must be able to place it on the table somehow and, unhelpfully, that you should follow the text of the effect that generated the place…

6 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Well, I guess there's probably at least a pretty solid train of thought that rules out one method.

If it really meant 'measure once you're in place', then 'place a model within 1 inch of itself' would mean anywhere on the table, because it'd be within 1' of itself after the move.

That would be problematic however you cant get to that interpretation because measuring a place effect is clearly covered in the rules pg 15.

22 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

There isn't an ironclad rules reason for this. A lot of the time in Malifaux you just have to go with being reasonable (which is why we have TOs).

Agreed on being reasonable. I guess Im trying to seek an explanation that doesn't rely on a variable TO having to give a ruling each time. 

By far the least impactful/powerful form of the ability is to check before, essentially ignore one of the rules on the models card when you resolve the ability - how I intend to play it until its confirmed otherwise but its not a super satisfying answer rules clarity wise.

There are other applications of the same rule here eg. The fall into shadow trigger which has similar wording to shadow step  so its not even an edge case situation. How do I things end up on the FAQs? Is that the only Wyrd based answer to questions?

2 hours ago, solkan said:

When you get to an absurd conclusion--Mondrake's place effect allows him to be placed anywhere on the table--you're supposed to stop and reconsider your assumptions and see where you went wrong.

 

Anywhere with 6” yes - didn’t intend to say anywhere on table. By itself not an absurd ability. A couple of unsuited 6” place effects on low target numbers already exist.

What is the absurd part? Ideally with a reference to the rules or a game breaking application of the interpretation. Help me see where I went wrong.

I admit there is no helpful language in the rules as to how to resolve non-cost/targeting timing aspects of actions.

To be clear my assumption is that you test for the condition upon placing the model or put another way - upon placing the model it must be in concealing terrain. Which I say is almost always true for Mordrake given born of shadow.

thanks for the reply Solkan.

On 12/11/2020 at 8:13 AM, Adran said:

it needs to be concealing before he is placed there.

Where does this timing come from in the rules? Agree this is the critical part of the question - the point at which you determine if Mordrake has been placed in concealing terrain.

Shade step has no cost to the action nor a target so would go straight to applying results of the action, step 5. Page 23.

As written the timing of the place (picking the model up and putting it down pg 15) and the aura moving with the model (pg 30) all happen simultaneously thereby satisfying the model being placed in concealing terrain.

Functionally this would allow Mordrake to place anywhere within 6” that does not negate Born of shadow upon being placed.