Banjulhu

14 hours ago, ShinChan said:

 

I think she's still decent with LJ, probably both versions actually. LJ 2 support 33 quite well (adversary, free focus, burying models, etc...). For LJ1, grabs 7s from the discard pile to guarantee one of the suits of the leap.

Card recycling I'll give you but I'm not sure it's worth the 8pts buy in alone.

Lady J 2 supporting a model well is not the same as the model being supported being actually worth that support and I think that will be what is going to sink Lady J 2 going forward a lot. She in a vacuum is fine, she just has scant little in her keyword that gets work done.

So whilst I slowly try to fathom what Lady J  2 does now I might as well switch back to what started this.

Ho boy does Thirty-Three kind of just suck now?

8 points for a stat 6 range 0" melee attack that does 2/3/5 damage that may temporarily bury an enemy without adding a condition if you are lucky to get the trigger and the enemy pooches a 2nd cheatable WP flip or drops a coffin marker if you are lucky to get the other trigger. Why would you willingly take this model?

I'm okay with the idea that Lady J 2's gameplay was too much of an NPE and needed a change up but they could have at least left her with some models other than the Lone Marshal that feel like they can be elevated with her support rather than made slightly less crap.

Adversary from Entropic Debt requires the target being undead which in most cases means using an action to drop a coffin near an enemy and then a second to hopefully add the adversary. That's a lot of setup just for getting positive flips on a single target.

Marshals seeing through coffins is not much of a buff when Marshal shooting is sub-par.

I can see why changes were made. Reliably removing models from the table with minimal interaction is not fun and can lead to NPEs very easily.

I would say no one was really complaining about lady J 2 because the odds of facing her when coming up into guild were low when Hoff 2 existed, whereas playing into Tara2 was very likely when playing Outcasts.

Still feels like all that has happened here is a downgrade without adding anything back to make up for the loss.

That's certainly a different master.

Less boxes dropped by LJ.
Boxes from DMs and DMRs now costs cards from hand.
Pine Box coffins have to be dropped in base contact with the target rather than 1"
Lost regeneration.
Her bury now only distracts.

Her only buff seems to be to allow Marshals to draw LoS through coffins now, which given the piss poor nature of Marshal shooting is not much..

Not really sure what her draw is beyond not being Lady J 1.

Actually it looks like a load of changes have taken place to Lady J.

https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/160440-thirty-three-change-likely-on-the-way/

Looks like Lady J 2's crew/game plan will be taking a bit of a hit for the sins of Tara 2.

Perdita 2 and Lady J 2 for the Guild seem like out and out upgrades and all the both of them have seemingly lost is a touch of personal damage potential which is moot given they both now make big parts of their Keywords much more scary/efficient.

The problem with doing a cost reduction mechanic for taking a full complement of minions is that if such a thing was implemented the only ones that would see play most of the time are the powerful minions that have effects players want more of, the bad ones will still just sit on a shelf because an extra activation from a bad model is usually just not worth it.

The better move here would be to identify the crap minions and make them less crap via errata.

Isn't bring the Pale Rider the go to tactic for most of the Guild's Keywords?

So other than having a slightly better attack stat why would you want to take the original Perdita over this new version?

1 minute ago, Thatguy said:

And the upgrades absolutely devastate some crews. Big No Obey Aura. Ignore Incorporeal, Ignore Blasts or Black Blood. Ignoring Terrain shenanigans is going to be rough on a lot of crews. The summons may become a priority target. Which is pretty ideal for a summoned model with Shielded 2.

Not to mention that an opponent shooting at easily replaced 4pt models means the more individually impactful family models are not being picked on as much.

The upgrade not vanishing means that once you have a monster hunter you can keep getting 2 health back on a kill as nothing in the rule stops a monster hunter replacing itself with a monster hunter right?

See that's what made me think it's wording effectively means you can pine box from any distance because the bit that says you do the Pine Box action without range only calls out the model you attempted to use the coffin marker dropping effect on and says nothing about the marker having to actually be there.

So you get step 1 which is the declaration of Pine Box. Then step 2 of action resolution starts with you saying I'll pay a HP to drop a marker between the marshal and X, because and because its not actually part of the action itself the rider resolves straight away rather than waiting until step 5. Now whether a marker gets placed another rider is also comes into effect which is Pine Box can target model X regardless of range and LoS. So then step 3 to 5 occurs following the normal rules.

I fully understand the intent is for the Pine Box to be limited by the coffin marker I just think the wording is clunky if that is the effect it wants because it's trying to overwrite how an action is processed to do something else.

I kind of wish that the rule said marshals with pine box attack action may as an action drop a coffin marker within 1" of a model and themselves then make a Pine Box attack action that does not count against action limit that ignores at LoS and range at a model within 1" of the placed coffin marker at which point there is nothing going on that requires you to alter the flow of the normal action resolution.

3 minutes ago, Morgan Vening said:

Not only do you get to take the Pine Box action, it's essentially a (fraction under) 4" range.

Coffin Marker is placed up to 1" from DM. 50mm base. Must be within 1" of target. Ignore range/LOS for remainder of action.

Given the wording does anything stop you taking the damage to make the range unlimited, targetting a model over 4" away, shrugging when you can put a marker down and the burying them as nothing suggests the rest of pine box does not complete if the dropping of the marker is not possible?

Basically what is determining the order of events when the super charged version is used?

Another, am I reading this properly question.

Does the Marshal's Coffin ability totally replace what Pine Box does once per activation when the HP is spent or does it still do the rest of Pine Box on top of dropping a coffin marker?

1 hour ago, Adran said:

Its a common space saver. A model will define a marker once on its card, and then just refer to that type of marker throughout the card.

The coder in me is screaming in anguish. You would think then the rule that defines what a marker is would at least be one of the first on a card rather than the 2nd to last.

Are all Coffin Markers on 50mm bases or just the 1 created by Lady J's bonus action?

I assume all, but find it odd that one rule that is given out to a selection of models requires you to look at what an entirely unrelated rule does to know what its effects are.

Generally my Lady J first turn involve me looking at the various marshal cards for 2 minutes and wondering why I picked any of them.

Then I remember I have Guild and there were no stand out options not called the Pale Rider and got on with things up until this week and from this week on I'll do the same thing except I'll just remember the Guild have no stand out options at all and just get on with being mediocre.

I'm agree with the reasoning behind the nerf to the Devastation trigger but what it has been reduced to seems like it will never really be something you would want to spend the tokens on triggering.

That was my assumption but I could see it easily being argued the other way as well.

It does allow for some magical chritmas land scenarios involving melee monsters like Lady J which is nice. Still probably not better than assured damage of Devastation but at least its an option.

Although it is unlikely to come up given most of the time I'll be gunning for Devastation I'm seeking some clarification regarding the Pale Rider's Hatred Unleashed trigger on Revel in Conflict.

The trigger allows all friendly models in the pulse to make a Charge action and the Charge action in turn lets you make an Attack action.

Are the Attack actions you could make considered to be generated by the Hatred Unleashed trigger and so unable to declare their own triggers or are they generated by the Charge actions and so free game for triggers?

Not totally in keyword but I'm liking the combo of Jury, Necro-dancer and Pale Rider in a Lady J crew.

Pale Rider does its things.

The Necro-dancer tells the Pale Rider to do more things.

Jury tells the Necro-Dancer to tell the Pale Rider to do more things.

Lady J bounces about causing havoc because people are more worried that one of the Pale Rider's eventual things is going to be that damn pulse.

The Pale Rider.

Does not really matter which master/mechanic it is that needs countering but I'm pretty sure the answer will be the Pale Rider.

Im stuck trying to make up my mind between the Domador and the Steward in my Marshal crews.

I know the Pale Rider will be in most of my lists so the easy extra action with a possible heal for a model opponents will be gunning for is very useful but at the same time a big solution to the Pale Rider is to control it with things like slow and stunned so having the Steward backing it up is also very good.

Both the Steward and the Necro-dancer feels like it would be support overkill.