Mycellanious

15 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I don't know about Mei Feng, but I really feel this with other crews.

The problem with using lots of TNs to balance a crew with card draw is your plans become unreliable.

And given that the opponent is doing everything they can to mess up your plans, it stinks to stumble over your own models.

For me personally, I would give the Forgeling Press the Advantage as well, so it can get that Trigger Turn 1 very reliably, but for a higher resource cost. I also think I would change Mei Feng's Heated Claws trigger, since its pretty bad rn. She really struggles against anything with damage reduction, so I would change it to: "Immediately, if the target is a Construct, it gains Burning +2. When Resolving, if the Target has Burning +3 or greater, this Action receives a Positive to its damage flip."

This way its kind of a call back to her Superheated Trigger from 2E, as well as encourages the Burning sub-theme of the Keyword, while also strengthening the combo between Breath of Fire and Deadly Claws and giving you a reason to declare Blaze over Condensation, in specific scenarios. 

On 2/1/2021 at 10:43 AM, Sanik said:

 

On the other hand... obviously Rasputina needs some love ( and everybody knows it) but I think Mei also needs some serious attention. Her mobility trick is nice, and she has decent dmg output... but I just can’t get away with this feeling that she is missing something...

 

what would she need to make her “top tier” master? 

Mei Feng's crew is lacking two things. Firstly, they don't have any Schemey models. They have Reckless which is great, but they dont have any efficiency with dropping or removing scheme markers (I was hoping that Ivan would come in and fill that role lol).

More importantly I think, is that the crew has quite a bit of Moderate target numbers and Discard effects, but absolutely ZERO card draw. In my experience, this makes the crew feel very swingy, some times you hit your target numbers, and sometimes Willie just fails his duels three times oh well. This can be problematic in a crew that is often played as an Alpha Striker, since if they miss their target numbers turn 1 or turn 2 it can be extremely detrimental. 

The prime example of this has got to be the Forgeling. Don't get me wrong, its a great model. But its also the model that kind of defines your Deployment. This is because the Forgeling has the potential to drop 2 Scrap Markers, but relies on a Trigger that's not built in. Since it requires 2 Scrap Markers to Ride the Rails, the difference between 1 Scrap and 2 is massive. If you've Deployed in such as way that you were counting on having a 4 Rams in your starting hand, but missed it, it can very seriously slow down the pace of your crew, which is kind of their major strength. 

Based on the FAQ for Luck Thief, probably a  

37 minutes ago, MrPieChee said:

Is it Collette who is too powerful, or the coryphee's?

I believe they are taken in every Collette crew, and are responsible for most of the damage output.

Collette's identity is a master that slips through the opponents fingers, and when I first joined this forum it was pointed out that you shouldn't bother attacking her.

She should win via scoring without engaging, so it makes sense for it to be very hard to kill her. However, if her crew is getting significant damage onto the opponents crew, that's the problem.

So I dont know if you guys are following the World Cup, but I think Plaag has 8-0 all but one game with Collette. My understanding, is that Collette is really strong because the Duet grants her permanent activation control. It guarantees her last Activation, which is excellent for scheming, but also means she just gets to wail on the opponents crew without fear of reprisal. 

Its not released yet, but keep your eye out for the EVS Keyword. They do some crazy things with card manipulation, and also their captain is actually a bit mad

5 hours ago, DuBlanck said:

I like the defined brawl spots, it was only having one brawl in the same place every time that made it boring - four(five?) options of which flag you want to capture/defend, and reactive play based on positions, sounds more fun than Team Leap hopping around the table evading interaction. 

What about something like an actual capture the point scenario? You each drop 3 markers on your half, and get points for having models near the markers. 

Could we get a clarification on who gets kill credit when a model dies from a Blast from the Bombs in Yer Belly upgrade? 

If Izamu attacks a Metal Golem with Bombs In Your Belly and declares the Armor Piercing trigger, does the damage from the Blast also ignore Armor?

22 minutes ago, LeperColony said:

There are many summons that do not require high cards, and you can't assume stone use.  

 

It's false to assume that the place is an increase in efficiency.  You very well may not want Taelor to be where she has to go.  For instance, suppose a summoner had an ability "after you summon a model, discard a card to place an enemy within 6 into base contact with the summoned model."  We would probably count that as being quite powerful!

And whether or not being engaged by Taelor is negative efficiency, efficiency neutral, or even potentially positive efficiency is so situational as to also not be something we can simply assume.

The only unquestionable consequences are the discarded card being negative and the wound potential being positive.

It's not an utter fail if it doesn't get an attack, if it forces the summons to go someplace suboptimal.  In fact, there are going to be instances where you gain something for nothing because your opponent has to place the model in such a way where the summoned model has to use actions to move "up."

That being said, I don't disagree that the ability's range makes it harder to use.  Since many summons are also 6", I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to make WtM something like 8".

There are many summons that dont require high cards, however ALL summoners decide what they are going to summon based off of what cards they have in hand. This is because ALL summoners have to declare what they are going to summon before they flip a card. So at the start of a Turn a summoner has to look at his hand and based on that allocate a card to make sure his summon goes off. And sure, its entirely possible that you just happen to draw the 13 Crows you need for your Jorogumo so you don't need to spend a Stone, but the odds of that happening are few are far between. Summoners almost always run high SS Caches because they need to guarantee a Suit for their summon. I don't think anyone who plays a Summoner is going to come to the table and just try to yolo both guessing the right card number and flipping the correct suit; and if they do I wouldn't expect them to successfully summon very often. It is entirely reasonable to assume that a Summoner is going to expend a "valuable card," whether a 7 or a 13, and a Stone to guarantee a successful summon, barring some additional tech like Intuition. 

Sure, we can agree that Malifaux is a complicated game. Whether or not the Place from WtM is a benefit or detriment varies from game to game, pool to pool, Action to Action. If I can't definitively claim the movement as a benefit, then no one can definitively claim it as a detriment. That said, I don't find your example convincing because I do not believe it accurate portrays the situation.  The ability "after you summon a model, discard a card to place an enemy within 6 into base contact with the summoned model," would be quite powerful! However, the reason this is powerful is because the OPPONENT has control over whether or not the model Places, and the specific details of its placement. It's a powerful ability because the opponent uses it when it is beneficial to him, and not beneficial to you. As far as WtM is concerned, TAELOR gets to choose whether or not she Places. Sure, she only gets to attack if she chooses to Place, but if moving Taelor is a detriment, then you simply dont spend the card. You would only use WtM and its Place if it was either clearly beneficial, or you had a strong belief that it would benefit you. In that case, the Place from WtM is ALWAYS beneficial. 

23 minutes ago, Sanik said:

Hi guys... I have been out of malifaux since the end of 2nd edition and now I am trying to come back. I have been reading the rule book but I am a bit confused

 

so shadow is a new thing, and I’m wondering if I got this right - all blocking terrain generate “shadow” up to 3 inches and anyone who “touches” this shadow gets cover? Did I understand this correctly? So basically shadow extend the cover from 1 inche in 2ed to the actual height or the terrian?

 

for consealment, if a los is drawn thought a sealing terrain, then the attack gets minus flip? To example, if we have a snow bank, which the players agree to be a consealment terrian, and my lynch shoots his derringer from 5 inches away from the snow back to niccodem, who is at the opposite side of the bank, 5 inches away, even though no one is in the shadow, and no one is touching the bank (like 2ed) lynch still gets minus flip?

 

thank you!

Looks like you have a fairly good grasp of it! It reads a bit more complicated than it actually is lol. Just remember that only BLOCKING terrain creates a Shadow. So in the case of your snow bank, there is no Shadow created. So yep, if Rasputina, who is 10" away, shoots Lynch through a Ht 0 snow bank and Lynch is 10" away from the snow bank, he still gets Concealment.

Furthermore, Shadow only grants Cover if the Attacker's LoS is draw through the Terrain. So its not simply "just stand in Shadow to get Cover" but "Be behind a wall and near it to get Cover"

5 minutes ago, LeperColony said:

The problem with Welcome to Malifaux is that it's a resource drain solution to an efficiency problem.  Part of what makes summoning so strong is the pressure additional AP places on an opponent.  This is why even cheap minions can be difficult to deal with.  They don't blow you off the table, but they run around and threaten to score points.  By requiring a card discard to use Welcome to Malifaux, what should be a tool against summoning is actually increasing your rate of resource expenditure. 

And since a single attack is not likely to kill most models (unless you get lucky or can spend Focus, which is another resource...), what Welcome to Malifaux really offers is the ability to convert a card for one of the AP you'd otherwise have to use to kill the summoned model.

If WtM were either Once per Activation or Once per Turn (and more likely this), it would obviously be better, but it would also be better suited to the task it is meant to perform.

I also think giving her a trigger like Drain Magic or Maim would be good.  Attacking the opponent's hand is always desirable, but also it could feed into her anti-summoning role because, in combination to WtM, it could attack the summoner's resource base.

Well WtM also Places Taelor into base contact with the Summoned model, which would prevent it from just running off and Scheming. Furthermore, Summoning had multiple strengths outside of just raw AP advantage; many people for example would say that the additional wounds the crew gets from the Summoned model is an important part of the benefit of summoning it. Getting a free attack on it diminishes the value of those wounds. 

So in essence, the enemy Summoner has likely spent 1. an Action  2. A high card from their hand  3. A Stone.

Taelor, in response, spends  1. a card of any value from her hand to  2. GAIN 2 Actions worth of efficiency (place + attack)   3. Possibly reduce the Wound benefit from Summoning   4. Reduce the Actions of the Summoned model because she is now engaging it.

In theory, this seems to be a pretty decent trade where its not a hard counter, but a significant reduction in the benefit of Summoning. The problem as I see it is that it utterly fails as an Ability because the Range of Summoning Actions is enormous, the Restrictions almost non-existent, and there isn't any way for Taelor to predict where the Summon is going to be Placed, because its entirely the choice of the Summoner in the very moment of Summoning. The best Taelor can hope to do with the Ability in its current iteration is dissuade a model from being summoned near something important, but that doesn't actually reduce the efficiency of the summon since its free to place 6.1 inches away, and just Charge past her. 

I feel like the problem with Welcome to Malifaux is that summoning changed dramatically from 2E to 3E. In 2E, as far as I know, most summons needed to be summoned off of some particular marker (usually corpse or scrap), where as in 3E most summoners simply will their creation into existence somewhere in an 18" bubble. That's a massive area of the board. 

Without just changing all summon Action, maybe Welcome to Malifaux could be buffed so that if a model is being summoned and the Summoner has LoS to Taylor, the summoned model must be placed within 6" of her? 

32 minutes ago, Jinn said:

Poison +1 is very far from min 3, especially on a 2/3/4 spread. For one though, the Scorpius is absurdly better than this model for the same cost. For two, it's quite squishy for a 7SS model and, like all the other Chimera that rely on Marcus's upgrades to survive, that leaves it distinctly behind the beasts that are actually good on their own once upgrades are handed out. Why would I take this when the Scorpius has absurdly more powerful control abilities, is tankier, hits harder and has resource generation?

Similarly, Order Initiates are much less taxing in getting set up than this model and provide card draw for the same cost. For their costs: Blessed is better, Sabertooths are better, Crockett is better. What model in a Marcus list are you dropping to make room for a Razorspine?

I like the Rattler. It always punches above its weight class for me. Its a fantastic flank piece, since it can kill cheap scheme runners or tie up expensive scheme runners, but if it's left on its own it can score a whole crap ton of points, being capable of dropping 2 Scheme Markers a Turn unlike the Scorpius. Its also a Minion, which means it benefits from things like Magical Training (which I almost always put on it) as well as Minion specific schemes like Catch and Release. Finally its a HECK of a lot faster than something like the Scorpius, Deadly Pursuit is one of the most powerful abilities in the game. I personally have actually never hired the Scorpius, I've only ever Beat Shaped Myranda into one, since the only real benefit to the Scorpius is Neurotoxins and Myranda puts out Poison. 

14 minutes ago, Jordon said:

Any suggestions for making Molemen worth taking for Marcus? My main issues with them
 

• They need to be taken in pairs/other models to drop scheme markers in order to make their gimmic work
• They're probably the worst target for mutations and not worth investing a masters AP into
• They can only bury via a DF trigger but in all likelihood they'll die before getting to use it since they are paper thin
• They're just not good at their role as a scheme runner
• SS miner does the work of two moleman but better

I think the Molemen need 2 changes: 1 to utility, and 1 for survivability.
 

Utility:

Currently the Molemen have a pretty powerful Bonus Action, however its largely made irrelevant by the fact that the only way Chimera creates Scheme Markers is by having a model take the Interact Action. That means that other MORE EXPENSIVE models needs to spend their own Actions supporting this 4 ss minion, which is terrible from an efficiency standpoint. Not to mention, if you already had a model near a place where you wanted to drop a Scheme Marker, why would you bother dropping a Marker so the Moleman could then Bonus Action up and, drop another Marker? It just doesn't make sense.

My suggestion would be to increase the power of that Bonus Action. Currently it is restricted to Friendly Scheme Marker, but I think it really should be ANY Scheme Marker. This would give them a powerful role as a deep Anti-Schemer in Chimera, which would actually be very beneficial as it would allow other, more expensive models to focus on scoring points or attacking enemies. I considered proposing allowing the Bonus Action to Target ANY Marker (obv not Strategy) but felt that may be a bit too powerful.

Survivability:

The Molemen have 4 wounds and a Trigger to bury themselves as defensive tech. Technically, Marcus can put Upgrades on them, but since the Upgrades have a limit of 2 and there is no way for the Molemen to remove those Upgrade, it would be a terrific waste of Marcus' resources and AP. They are 4ss minions so clearly they can't  be difficult to remove, but currently they casually get oneshot by the Moderate damage of most models. 

My suggestion would be to buff their Df Trigger a little bit. I would have it reduce the damage from the Action by 1. That way, there are still valid paths to remove this cheap Minion, such as forcing through Severe damage or attacking its WP (which you probably want to be attacking vs Chimera anyway), but it also allows the Moleman to have a place where it is powerful. Currently, even if it declares its Df Trigger, it almost never gets to live long enough to actually be used. 

3 minutes ago, Vaylos said:

I attack upgraded model with a damage flip. 

Bombs in Yer Belly triggers and a blast is dropped.

The upgraded model suffers damage from the blast since it specifically says the upgraded model suffers a blast. 

This occurs because the core rules regarding blast damage are over written by the rule of "the card is always right". 

The upgraded model will endure the base damage, plus the blast damage. 

 

That's how I'm interpreting the rules here. 

This is incorrect. The Target never suffers damage from the Blast Marker. The Upgrade would need to specifically call out that part of the rules to overide it; as it stands the Upgrade does not CONTRADICT the core rules, so the core rules must be followed. 

3 minutes ago, Vaylos said:

So why is there difference in how they are resolved? They are same wording, with the rider that the cards rules always override the core rules. 

 

I really don't see how you can reference the core rules to avoid the damage on this while the core rules tell you specifically that the cards over ride the core rules and the specific rule here indicates another instance of suffering damage. 

There is no difference in how they are resolved. I am having difficulty understanding what you are saying

4 hours ago, Vaylos said:

Then I would think Wyrd should change the text of the upgrade so it doesn't say "it suffers +blast".

Technical speaking, it suffers damage and the upgrade sets up an additional instance of suffer damage. Which is super confusing as that same wording is used to deal damage by many other abilities. 

Also, please see the screen shot. 

Well that is how all triggers that do that effect are worded. Sweeping Strike for instance, or Devastating Strike. Thats just what the words and symbols mean

1 hour ago, Whut said:

Jedza excels at absorbing melee attackers and out-grinding them. A Surveyor is excellent for creating hazardous terrain and sitting in her bubble protected by LifeTokens while continually damaging and engaging melee enemies who can't kill him back.

In games against a lot of ranged enemies, the Surveyor cannot stay immortal within Jedza's bubble if he wants to be as useful as possible - if he dives into the enemy crew he will do some damage for a brief time and then die. Jedza herself also suffers more against ranged threats because Mikhail can't sit next to her and protect her from melee.

A Lamplighter just by existing creates two 30mm concealing Lamps which are not destructible and can be placed in Key areas from which you'll be shot. He can keep creating lamps using Tomes, and lighting each lets all models get plus flips within a small bubble. He also has a 2" engagement range and Shimmering Lights/Chronicle(Seclusion) can cause a lot of tricks with pushing out of engagement.

Is the Lamplighter great? No. They're a tech choice, and even if that tech choice is only used in 10-20% of games, that's not "almost useless." Its unfortunate that Malifaux takes 2-3+ hours to play and so it seems like 10-20% of games is not a lot. But compare that to a card in something like MagicTG - many cards make their way into sideboards only to be used in 10% of matches against specific decks. Those cards would never be called "almost useless" by good players.

See, now I thought Jedza would be better at absorbing ranged fire. It seems like when it comes to mele attacks its fairly easy to block LoS as far as Jedza's Aura is concerned. 

7 hours ago, Jinn said:

Is there really a meta where Mei Feng is doing that well? My impression of her was that she is pretty garbage tier

Mkay I know this is the wrong thread, but those are fightin words. I think some things could use a buff, but if no one is winning with Mei then your meta isnt playing her right

22 minutes ago, Harlekin said:

If it was this easy Raspi would just dominate every tournament. Quite the opposite is true. Thus, nice idea but it obviously isn't easy at all as most competitive players tend to not bring Raspi at all. 

 

It obviously is no problem at all as Raspi is generally considered a rather bad (for competitive gaming) Master.

Tbh when I see Raspi on the other side of the board I breathe a sigh of relief lmao

9 minutes ago, Arzalyn said:

Oh my bad, I should have been more specific. I'm looking more for the aspects of creating a advantage for myself (trought card draw/selection, extra activations/positioning of specific models) and a disvantage in specific places of the board (like don't go around this model/don't hit this model). 
I'm trying to avoid denial of actions/resources as I fell it would be a little frustrating to face. Debuffing should be ok as long as there is a way around it.
An extra note, we will be playing mostly on keyword for some time (core box + a couple extra boxes).

So to me (an Arcanist player) what you are describing sounds a lot like Marcus. Marcus is a utility master, who moves his own Beasts around the board and generates out of Activation Charges. He has a card draw mechanic in an Aura around himself, and puts out Upgrades that allows his Beasts to Adapt to any situation. Many of his models have Adaptive Evolution or give out Adversay, which dramatically reduces his card pressure. 

There's also a Keyword in the brand new faction called EVS, which has rapidly become my favorite and I think you would absolutely LOVE. Unfortunately, the models havent been released yet, but I recommend you check out some crews on the App and on Vassal!

Control can mean a lot of different things in Malifaux, some of them more feelsbad than others. For example, hand control is more feelsbad than debuffing, which is more feelsbad than movement, imo. 

If you are looking for a classic control master that isnt too powerful, you could take a look at Rasputina. She focuses on ranged debuffing primarily, but has very clear counters to her playstyle so it feels like your opponent can do something about it.

I think we could really use an FAQ for page 50: “If a model is ever without any of its base supported by terrain or the table, that model falls […].” Nearly every opponent I’ve played has had a different interpretation of this passage, and there doesn’t really seem to be one that I see more often that the others. To date I’ve heard:
 

1.      If any part of the model’s base overhangs the terrain, it immediately falls

                         a.      This can result in an extra half inch to an inch of movement from the size of the model's base

                                                                                                 or

                         b.      This cannot grant extra movement, so the model can only overhang and fall if it has the movement to completely clear the terrain with its base.

2.      The model only falls if its base is completely unsupported. If any part of the model is on the terrain, it is considered on top of the terrain piece.

3.      If at least 50% of the model’s base is unsupported, the model falls off the terrain. This can result is extra movement.

3 hours ago, Jordon said:

 

 

Maybe for models such as the acolyte who suffer worst from ice pillars granting cover. Perhaps taking a page from the Ivan book and not only ignoring cover generated from ice pillars but in fact gaining a bonus as well. That might give them a means to compete with silent ones. It’d also be nice if their pulls also ignored ice pillars because harpoons and ice pillars also don't work well together 

What about giving them Tundra Hunter? At worst it lets you negate the Cover, but if you set up properly you get a benefit. I wouldnt want the harpoon push to ignore Ice Pillars, I think its intential they stop at them so they are within 1" of them. The Harpooners have a cool Lead the Target trigger, maybe that would be good here as well? 

I know you said that you werent a fan of the Asian theme, but you may want to give the Foundry a look. They arent really "Asian," thematically they are actually one of the most diverse keywords, uniquely evenly split across 3 factions. Thanks to Ride the Rails they are very good at Hit and Run, and although they tend to be mele oriented, I like taking Kang and 3 Survivors to create a surprisingly effective gunline.