Mycellanious

37 minutes ago, Cedar said:

I'm actually skipping Harpooners in EVS, as just other models are better and I can't see any value in anything they bring to the table.You have better beaters and better support in other models in the crew.  Alpinist is IMO a trap model, that doesn't offer that much. You can hire him as sole scheme runner, though other models (usually those in keyword) would do better job.

I've never played mei myself, just guys who played her told me they are garbage that doesn't bring anything to the crew.

The Alpinist is fantastic for the Climbing Gear ability. That alone is worth 5ss imo, if he was a blank card with 5 wounds, Armor 1 and Climbing Gear I'd still hire him. 

Harpooners are excellent at mispositioning enemy models or Scheme Markers. I usually hire one and Toss it up the board so it can threaten to pull enemies towards my crew, or activate last and Reel In a Scheme Marker. 

I usually play ArcMei, so Railworkers often hold Magical Training for me. But without that, I find they hold their own against expensive models. Armor 1, 5 wounds, HtK means most models need minimum 3 AP to kill it, so they are great AP soaks. Their damage track is terrific for a 5ss model at 2/4/5, and they are in a crew that pulses out Focus. Pnematic Toss is what really puts them over the top imo. Firstly, it allows you to reposition your own models, and chuck Walking Forge models to get scrap further up the board. But it's also a Stat 5 attack targeting Mv. So this 5ss model is usually on an even stat ignoring defensive triggers, and the Toss is not Sz locked. You can screw over so many beefy 10ss models by chucking them out of position, and then just not having to deal with them. Furthermore, Pnematic Toss triggers all your Hazardous effects to deal upwards of 5 damage 1 Inj all in separate pings which is great for dealing with SS users. 

12 hours ago, Harlekin said:

I'd even say: _at least_ one of you is wrong.

That said we return to one of the Wishes for GG2 statements: less killy Strats & Schemes would be nice for GG2

Tbh I dont think we have very many killy-schemes and strats:

Strat (2/4): Public Enemies, Recover Evidence

I personally think the split between these strats exists because Wyrd wanted to give shooting crews a boost because they were quite bad in GG0, and killing a model from 12" away makes it easier to not get killed back. 

Scheme (3/13): Assassinate, Vendetta, Let Them Bleed. 

That's honestly quite low. 

I think the serious problem in GG1, is that there are a MASSIVE amount of schemes that you DENY by just killing your opponent:

(5/13) Breakthrough, Take Prisoner, Claim Jump, Vendetta, Hidden Martyr, Catch and Release have an active component that needs you to kill an enemy model to deny them a point

(4/13) Let Them Bleed, Spread Them Out, Runic Binding, Leave Your Mark become next to impossible for your opponent to score if you just kill them because they are so AP heavy (LYM is impossible for your opponent to score if you just take a beat down crew and camp the center) 

So a while 3 schemes this season are scored by killing, 9/13 schemes this season are DENIED by killing your opponent. 

3 hours ago, Cedar said:

 

Explorers Society (yes, even the faction that everyone complains about has bad models): Moorwraith, Alpinist, Harpooner, Nocturne 

Ok, this is crazy talk. Harpooners and the Alpinist are both FANTASTIC models, although I will say that I have only played Harpooners in EVS so maybe they need Keyword models to shine (which is good). 

I think I also saw Railworkers on this list? Excuse me? Railworkers are fan-fucking-tastic, to the point of tilting my regular opponents. 

14 hours ago, Jesy Blue said:

There's two things I loved that I know we'll never get back from 2nd edition, but I'm gonna mention them anyways:

1. The static scheme that was in every scenario.  There used to be 4 random schemes plus a Scheme that was in every game. I'd want to make it a stupid hard one to pull off though, so you could always go for it, but it was super hard to get both points for it.
2. Faction Specific Schemes, they were schemes that were available to be put in the pool only if you were playing that faction. I say this as the Outcast player who had the worst/best faction scheme (when you declared the scheme you gained 3 soul stones but you could not gain points from the scheme.... obviously it was called "Money First").

Hard disagree. This would simply reinforce certain masters as best in Faction because they just always score the Faction scheme. A similar problem would arise, where for example rn you take Hoff/Ironsides for Recover if the schemes are center focused, but Mei if they are spread out. If the Static scheme favored one type of playstyle (which it would) then it would push out masters who like the strat, but not the static scheme. Anything that reduces diversity on the table is problematic I think

1 hour ago, Kharnage said:

Well you can't nerf me

 

Inb4 Wyrd nerfs Nekima again XD

2 hours ago, extremor said:

That’s how I always played it and never got any doubt so far. Until today .... thanks for clarification!👍
where can I find the „model Basis“ in the rules?

That would be in the "Once Per" Effects category, p. 33 digital

5 hours ago, J4bberw0ck said:

I’ll be honest, I’m really disappointed in the renders. Everyone is just so...static. I mean, Maxine has some of the most interesting abilities in the game IMO, but her model is SO BORING. I’ve noticed a lot of M3E models are really static, but these take the unfortunate cake for me. I can’t bring myself to play them when the models are so uninspired. It’s a huge missed opportunity to do something really cool with the first non-nightmare seafaring crew, could have been great. Maybe they’ll get a nightmare box someday that will change my mind.

Does anyone else feel this way or were my expectations just too high?

This is probably the natural result of a large portion of the community expressing that the models are too difficult to build or attach to a base no? I think they look cool, except I expected Kiya's armor to be larger

1 minute ago, solkan said:

Having terrain traits makes a thing act like terrain, and get treated like terrain.  

I do not believe this is stated in the rules. I know that it is specifically called out for Markers, but most Aura that are Terrain specifically say they are Terrain, like Vent Steam or Drowning Aura, or Rolling Stones. This seems to be a notable exception. 

"non-Frontier models treat the area within Aura 2 as Severe, Concealing, and Hazardous"

The ability does not specifically state that this area is "Terrain" however those are Terrain traits. Would models that ignore Severe or Hazardous Terrain, or models that are inside the Alpinist's Aura, ignore the effects of Sandstorm?

8 minutes ago, belorey said:

No, i will Focus on your 1 or 2 9ss models and then i will clean all those easy targets whist your 5ss would not be able to score LtB.

Again no, i will deny your claim jump with Fuhatsu, PeaceKeeper or other model whilst i kill your cheap models.

How are you gonna score Claim Jump or Let them Bleed with those Minions? That is the question. If you spend 10 or 15ss hiring 2/3 5ss minios that i can kill very easy in T1 or T2 i will have the control of activations, board and schemes.

So personally I think your plan sounds kind of optimistic and kind of depends on me not trying to stop you. 

21 minutes ago, belorey said:

Why not? You said Claim Jump or Let them Bleed are good scheme for 5ss Minions, i can score both with those models whilst i kill your minions each turn.

Well for Let Them Bleed, I highly doubt my 5ss minions are the most expensive models in my crew, so any Attacks you put into them are wasted as far as scoring that scheme goes. And if they do happen to be my most expensive models, you wouldn't want to be deleting them anyway since you would need them to be alive, but below half for the first point unless you plan to table me? Furthermore, having the same amount of wound distributed among a larger number of models makes it more difficult to score the second point since you need more individual Attacks, in different places on the board, in order to ensure that none of my models are at full health

For Claim Jump, if you are attacking my 5ss minions, then the model I took Claim Jump on is not being attacked as often which makes it easier for me to score it. As far as YOUR Claim Jump is concerned, I only need 1 model near yours at the end of each turn. Having more bodies makes it easier to accomplish this, and it also means that I have more weight of attacks trying to get your model down to half wounds, even if each individual attack is less effective.

24 minutes ago, MrPieChee said:

There's more than one turn in a game of Malifaux. If we assume that first turn no killing happens (which in many cases isn't true), then if your 10ss model kills two 5ss models in two turns, you have two turns left for scoring.

I think all of this last page of discussion is a bit pointless - there are some good cheap models, but most cheap models never see the light of day in a tournament list. That means something's bad about them. Untill players start winning games in a competitive environment with the 'bad' cheap models then trying to tell people they are good is a waste of time.

Sure, kill everything then scheme is a viable strategy. And I think it is important for the game to have that strategy applicable! However, I think it would be foolish to rule out a different style of play where your 5ss minions simply try to delay your 10ss model for as long as possible, especially if that 10ss model is trying to kill everything then scheme, since it is often more difficult to kill 2 cheap models than 1 large model because their wounds are in different places on the board, and you can often overkill the first. 

4 minutes ago, ShinChan said:

Many xD I don't know why people are so scared of Mad Dog. He's a great 10ss henchman, but that's it.

Most of Last Blossom can kill a lot of 5Wds minions in 1-2 actions and probably gain another action out of it. Basically any model with a damage track that ends in "/5".

1 minute ago, belorey said:

Lone Marshal, Fuhatsu, Valedictorian, Mad Dog, Killjoy, Peacekeeper... And a very long list of models.

Its not just "how many 10ss models have a Severe of at least 5," nonetheless because they need to reliably hit that Severe of 5, but almost none of the models mentioned can kill that model while still scoring points. Vally is a good exception because she also gets a summon and scheme marker from it

30 minutes ago, Adran said:

If your 10 stone beater is killing a 5.stone model every turn it can be an issue. And I think it's primarily you can't rely on your5 as model in a game as if it's too important it will be killed. As such 5 ss models rarely get picked. 

Sure but how many 10ss models can kill a 5ss model every turn while still scoring points? I can think of a couple, like Mad Dog, but even in that case I would MUCH rather he be punching Gamins than a Golem or my master

48 minutes ago, Filox said:

Guild and Neverborn are tuned down  

Somebody should let Dreamer, Zoraida, and Phiona know lol.

5 minutes ago, belorey said:

I think we play very diferent malifaux. Show me those list and games with 4ss/5ss models that can let you score VP with 9ss model.

O before i forget It. I think you like to finish all your sentencie with LOL. 

This general style of play is very good into something like Recover Evidence with Claim Jump, Let Them Bleed, or Vendetta for example

15 minutes ago, MrPieChee said:

If a 7ss model kills a 5ss model most turns then I wouldn't say the player with lots of 5ss models is likely to be winning.

If they somehow trick the 7ss model to get so out of position they do nothing for the rest of the game, then that's worthwhile, but I don't think a good player would ever let that happen. The slight corner case is if that 5ss model had the ability to score several VP, but I doubt that would end up removing the 7ss model from the game, and even if it did, denying the VPs would be worth the cost difference (in most situations 5ss Vs 5ss is a risk, so making sure those VP are denied requires some extra cost).

But the equation is not simply "did a 7ss model kill a 5ss model." You need to take into account all the resources that went into that. Did it spend both Actions? Did it move further up the board? Did it spend Focus? Did it cheat a severe from its hand? Did my model have Cover, Concealment, etc that it had to find some way to get around? 

Malifaux is a game about making trades. Losing a 5ss model is one of the cheapest things you can give away in this game. Trading 2 Actions from a higher cost model as well a high card and a Focus is a significant investment, what am I going to get from that?

1 hour ago, belorey said:

I'm happy too because the Lone Marshall only spend 1 PA kill that model 21" away and deny a VP and he can still move or shoot other models.

You don't even need to go with a strong beater agains a 5ss minion. The Pathfinder, an Austringer (and his raptor) or a 7ss model can kill your cheap minion in a single shoot with Focus lol.

Er right. But it's spending at least 2 Actions to do that, probably more if it needs to get into range. But I think where we differ on opinion is that is is NOT costing me a VP lol. I am in no way relying on my 5ss minions to score my VP. My 5ss minions exist to be expendable. So if you want to spend your 7ss model's entire Activation killing my 5ss model, that's totally fine. My 9ss model is gonna go off and win me the game while you are busy with that lol. I personally think the community at large has too high an expectation for cheap models. If my 5ss minion is still alive at the end of the game, then I probably used them incorrectly. In my mind, 5ss models are speed bumps, not lynch pins. 

1 hour ago, belorey said:

I wish this happen, you know how much i like to play in keyword. But most of this models would die between T1/T2 with a single Focus Attack.

idk if the opponent's beater is using their Focus to kill my 4 or 5ss models, I am a very happy man lol. I don't really see this as a problem and I am unsure why so many people are unhappy about it. 

I definitely like playing schemey, positional games, but the primary way that that models interact with each other is by Attacking, and the primary result of that Attack is damage. I think that Faux is super not designed for a completely killess playstyle every game. 

How does deadly pursuit interact with claiming a Leyline?

A) Pursuit happens before, so you can Push up to the Marker and then Claim it
B) Pursuit happens after, so you can Claim the Marker and then Push away
C) Both effects happen during the Resolve End Turn Effects Step so Simultaneous Effects applies and the Controller gets to choose which resolves first. 

I personally think it is C, since claiming a Marker happens "At the end of each Turn," but before scoring the from the strategy, placing Claiming the Marker squarely within the "Resolve End Turn Effects" step. 

36 minutes ago, Maogrim said:

On the topic of doggos: Does the (filthy, slimy, villainous) ES book give an in-lore reason why Artemis and Ullr are so much better and more durable than Luna or the Guild Hounds? Are they somewhat supernatural? 

They are good boys Maogrim

Playing EVS is I think the most fun I've had in Malifaux. The card cycling shenanigans, synergies, and just lateral thinking you put into the crew is so much fun. 

4 hours ago, MajorUndead said:

I just saw new boxes pre-order appear on Wayland (but without art so not sure what is in there) :

• Here Lies... : maybe the grave goo + moorwraiths?
• Hush : I would be surprised if the archivist isn't in it, but I haven't seen Cadmus' box appear in pre-orders. would be weird to have it released because its core box. Also, who who he be packaged with?
• Turning Tides : should be EVS. I would guess at least Harata Ngaatoro and TideCaller in there
• Off the Deep End : I would expect EVS too. with bebe & Calypso. Harpooner could be in either box

1 Harpooner will be in each box. That way Apex has to buy 2 EVS boxes!

Just now, Plaag said:

acolytes dont cost 7ss, tgey dont ignore concealment/cover/ff, only tools for the job is a cool ability on his card, that will work; but what would u take-silent one+1ss or acolyte? what mission have acolytes that other models cannt do?

They have conditional ranged min 3 which is good, however I do think its too unreliable for that to make them worth 7 ss

3 minutes ago, ShinChan said:

• 7ss for a 5/5 with 7 Wounds and no defensive tech? Bad
• Main attack is a gun that doesn't ignore cover, concealment or friendly fire, in a keyword that provides free cover to the enemy? Terrible
• One of the main purposes of the gun is to move people around, which you won't be able to do much, since it's a push and model will just stop in base contact with other models, scenery or (oh suprise!) Ice pillars!
• Ridiculously situational quick action that is going be useful 1 out of 20 games.

They're awful models. The only reason to bring them is for analyze weakness, which with Stat 5 and no triggers  is plain bad.

And believe me, I'm not a super-competitive player or anything, and I really like Raspi's theme.

Oh no I completely agree. I didnt say they were good, just that they were cool!