CustosUmbra

On 2/7/2019 at 4:35 AM, Fenriel said:

When did she join parker? I still see her as a mercenary in the 1-31. She lost hard to wound awhile ago I think. Still has hard to kill. 

In the Last book. I don't see it like joining his band, though. More like a joint operation) 

52 minutes ago, Thangoruin said:

If it doesn't remove the  from the action then Gunfighter is useless because they still can't use their shooting while engaged.

I think they can't use Gunfighter to get an attack off of Bandit Raid; the issue is Bandit Raid as it really should read "push the target up to 6". . ." otherwise it's just too restrictive.

So, you push your model and take a shooting attack, but treat it as if it had a melee range. That's a fairly easy part. 

The situation with Tara is a bit more complicated. My intuition suggests that if you treat a shooting attack as a melee one, Tara's trigger won't apply. But I can see a valid argument that it is still a shooting attack and is very capable of failing because of Tara's hole. 

18 minutes ago, Liched said:

It punishes players because you're not allowed to use VS main mechanic on models that you hired into the crew. Which means that your master loses value and power on top of paying more stones as well as sacrificing cohesion within your crew. 

It's not about the models being suboptimal but VS becoming worse. And if they are fair for their cost, why not let VS do his thing as a leader? (How do you play with your Lazarus if you often get into a position where you assimilate a lot of melter attacks?)

It's also mainly about versatile hires. Which of there's 1 minion currently. With VS not doing his thing with those models you are actively disencouraged to hire those models. And yes, if my master becomes less flexible and creates anti-synergy within the crew I'll consider hiring them less because making that choice makes the match less interesting for me. But is there a versatile model that would become busted from letting VS do his thing and giving them upgrades? 

VS main power lies in giving other models versatility, not in using his own upgrades, which is fine, but also means that he's a poor second master. Most lists also don't run a lot of minions (unless you are Friekorps) and hiring a lot of them to use with VS is more of a suboptimal fun-list then something that's opop. And there's no non-friekorps minion that you'd want to run in any crew beyond its thematic - so once again, why can't he interact with versatile models? Fine if OoC models are getting shafted, but why arbitrarily make people feel bad for hiring versatile models into their crew? or try to spice things up so that they are not playing the same list over and over again? or limiting their masters impact by playing the rock-paper-scissors game this edition relies heavily upon?

i didn't say that I think Friekorps are bad, but to me it sounded like you implied that the VS upgrades are busted and putting them on models that are decent or often 1-2ss overcoated would break those models - but that it wouldn't make Friekorps too good since they were designed around being a little bit worse, but having the possibility of being upgraded  

(excuse me if I lose cohesion at points. It's almost 4 am where I live xD)

 

 

I can see your point, but isn't Von Schill bound to have at least 2-3 decent minions to work with? Well, unless it's all-stars no-minion list and he's forced to unpack those tools for himself only, at which point I do agree - he becomes much less valuable as a support piece, but can still perform some great cinematic stuff on his own.. And perform as a healer, I guess? XD

As for Lazarus.. It's more about many my opponents being pretty agresssive. The ability to assimilate strong melee attacks (or Talos's bury) helps a bit. 

Once again - do you really need to interact with Versatiles? Stalker can still benefit from The Trunk. Hans doesn't really need any of those upgrades.. Unless you wanted 20"+ Rocket Launcher with built-in crit. And a Child.. It's a Child. He's too young to be a soldier and too old to become Kade 2.0

Though I'm very sad I can't give Barbaros Mines anymore. It was giving me such an unpleasant (in a good way) vibe of a fighter who has lost everything and just wants to get in there, kill as many as possible and die in a blaze of glory! 

Nah, Arsenal Ups are performance-boosters. But they are performance-boosters both for Freikorps and any other minions.  And Stalker, once again, in a weird way. 

Alright, I forgot what I was going for, lol. Only woke up recently After a mostly-sleepless night XD

Guess I mean to say - you don't really need to interact with your whole crew as VS. Yes, it would be nice to boost some out of keyword Enforcer and henchmen, but losing this ability doesn't mean that VS is weaker, because he still has a decent list of both Freikorps and non-Freikorps to interact with. 

1 minute ago, Liched said:

So there's nothing special about the void things.

It's less about the power of the models and more about not punishing the players for choosing to indulge in one of the main parts of the game, hiring. And yes, not letting a player use their masters main gimmick is punishing players. It also makes VS less powerful as a master if he can't interact with models you may want to hire, because the upgrades is where his power lies  

The whole thing also creates false synergy. VS is only synergistic with Friekorps because he's only allowed to interact with them. Since afaik the friekorps models don't really interact with VS all that much. 

But if we are talking power, do you mean to tell me that Friekorps is a keyword filled with bad models that only functions because of VS giving them upgrades? Or are they good/fair models becoming better and more versatile because of the upgrades - which is VS strength and purpose? 

VS still can buff any minion. Yes, there's nothing special about it. Ronins, Voidlings, Ashes and Dust, Convict Gunslingers.. They all do well without VSs Upgrades and so do Freikorpsmen, but he can still give them those to enchance their performance. How is the game punishing you for hiring Ashes and Dust, if it can benefit from your Upgrades and synergize with Lazarus? How is hiring a Convict Gunslinger bad, if he's a solid model on his own? 

I agree, Freikorps don't really interact with VS in any unique way, while benefiting from his abilities..  But what's wrong with that? And He's not ONLY allowed to interact with them, there are always great minion and himself, even if you hire no Freikorps. 

How am I implying that Freikorps are bad? What I meant was - are non-minion non-Freikorps that bad that you won' t consider taking them just because they can't take Arsenal Upgrades? 

54 minutes ago, Liched said:

What's so great about giving Hunters or Wretches upgrades? (beyond making wretches doing something that's not double walk).

Also, making it so that picking versatile models or out of crew hires more detrimental is bad for game health

They get extra mobility or utility. Create hazardous terrain, leap for extra 6" movement, destroy scheme markers with grenades, or Just boost survivability.. You name it! Those upgrades do well on any model. 

How is taking versatile or out of crew models detrimental?  Are non-Freikorps Enforcers and Henchmen THAT bad on their own that they aren't playable without VSs upgrades? If so, which ones?

8 minutes ago, Liched said:

Can someone explain to me why Shang (Misakis totem) is basically just a better version of Karina?

I mean, she must have some advantage over Tara when facing her, since Tara makes Misaki's key ability pretty dangerous to use XD

Other than that - idk, reasons? 

From my point of view, shouting orders became more valuable with the changes to Concentrate. 

You're not able to spend the first turn stacking Focus, so After you've spent your first Focus you need an Action efficient way to replenish it.. And that's where Shouting Orders come into play. 

Oh my, you can actually TOUCH him now? Outrageous! 

Scion is also quite useful for gitting rid of benefitial conditions on enemies. All while being relatively safe from enemies. All for mere 6 SS! 

Just wish Wretches still had their healing action or could be summoned by the Nothing Beast.. or Scion. But that would be too hilarious to be true. 

Oh, and don't forget to use the Scion to help out his little buddies. Too bad they don't offer anything in return anymore. 

Also, aren't Wretches supposed to be "shards" of the Nothing Beast, or am I making things up? Would it be too much to allow it to summon Wretches out of killing model or smth like that? 

Unpopular opinion:

After thinking over and over.. I think it's worth it to hire a couple of Wretches over a single Hunter. Just hear me out

Wretches, even while not survivable, are great schemers - Mv 5 + Incorporeal is a great combo that will get you pretty far. If an enemy closes in on them and fails to kill them, he suddenly realises that he has some problems:

1. Tara can summon a Hunter on 11+ Tomes. Every Void model can hit burried models.

2. Void Wretches have Stat 5 Stutter Time, which isn't terrible and can apply Fast. That will allow a Hunter to appear near their little bro's offender. 

3. While Wretches' attack has an unimpressive Stat 4, never forget that it has built in Tomes, which you can use to GTFO the problematic model far far away.. or force your opponent to cheat, which will allow you to apply Stutter Time more relliably. 

Or use his Totem's magnet action/push him around with crew's bonus action? 

Do I understand thi right? 

IF Arik pushes someone with his powered up fists within mines, they essencially turn into free crits? 

1 hour ago, Erik1978 said:

There seem to be different opinions on Von Schill's equipment upgrades.

If rocket boots and rocket launcher are different upgrades, or the same, because they are both "equipment" and therefore only 2 models can have some at the same time? No word from any Wyrd people?

"Special: Equipment" is one of two their Restrictions. The fact that they have the same Restrictions doesn't mean they are the same upgrade.

1 hour ago, Caspergad said:

agree to both, honestly silly it doesn't ignore cover/concealment... it's a flamethrower!!  

He's trying to land headshots with it, come on, guys! 

6 hours ago, TRick said:

Hi Guys!

I stopped playing Malifaux a short time before the emissaries were released.

Now I got a train back and I'm happy about it.

I played Hamelin and got:

1x Hamelin Crew Box

1xBrotherhood of the Rat

1x Killjoy

1xHodgepodge Emissary (bought today)

1x Benny Wolcomb (bought today)

1x Winged Plague

First of all.. RIP Killjoy. No longer an Outcast.  Other than that, that's pretty much all you need for Hamelin. 

As for Parker - Sue and Convict Gunslingers are pretty good.

1 minute ago, Zebo said:

Sounds fun, but I don't understand some things. 

Are you talking about new upgrades, or some kind of special upgrades for the equipment upgrades already attached? 

A model must have attached the Rocket Launcher to attach the experimental upgrade of Armor Piercing Shells? 

I'm thinking of Upgrades for models. You attach the Experimental to a model independently from the Arsenal.
That frees up the activation order and gives you a choice to pay for one, both or none of the two upgrades, without them depending on each other.
For example, you've used the AP Shell and, since you can't use Rocket Launcher more than once, you decide to discard it and only pay for the Experimental, so next time you equip the Rocket Launcher you'd have access to AP Shells. Or you find the cost of Experimental too severe and only keep the Rocket Launcher..

2 hours ago, Zebo said:

And for those who would prefer some changes, what would you like to see? 

Presuming that these guys are the ones responsible for developing the gear VS gives out, why not give them a support action that on trigger empoweres those Upgrades on Freikorps?

Field Testing - 6", Stat 5, TN 13
If the target doesn't have Focus, it gains Focus +1
Test Run - Friendly Freikorps only. Target gains an Experimental Upgrade.
"Any volunteers?"- Push the target 3" towards this model.

Experimental Upgrades - several Upgrades, one for each Arsenal. Each gives a corresponding Arsenal action new abilities and triggers, such as:
- Rocket Launcher: Armour Piercing Shell - This action ignores Armour. Target suffers 4/5/6 damage instead.
- Rocket Boots: Death from above: After this model is placed, every enemy model in base contact must pass Mv 14 duel or suffer 2 damage and Stunned.
- Reinforced Assault Shield: Electric Discharge: Rg 5" Stat 6, Tn 12 - Every model within range must pass Df 14 duel or gain Injured equal to this model's Shielded condition.
And so on and so on. But every Experimental should also have:

Discard this upgrade if this model attaches an Experimental upgrade.
Experimental: When a model uses an ability/skill/trigger printed on this Upgrade, it must discard this Upgrade or a Soulstone. If it doesn't it suffers 2 irreducable damage.

2 minutes ago, Zebo said:

Sorry, I don't believe you. 

Even when it comes to Schill being suck in melee, I'd rather spend one extra damage on getting Rocket Boots + Focus trigger on himself for Positive Hit flip and double positives Damage flip. That and 2" push for some extra movement.
Or even give a Rocket Launcher + Attack trigger for Trapper to shoot an already activated model with Stat 7 with positive Hit flip, nice damage track and blasts. Either that or trigger Focus instead to then Pull any model in your threat range to then shoot it with Trapper with double positives to Hit and positive Damage... Yeah, I'd rather do that then just flail his arm around or shoot his gun, unless there's a Hard to Wound target waiting to get finished off.

3 minutes ago, Zebo said:

Yes, Load Up is an useful ability, but when things become hot, you are not gonna being attaching upgrades. Would you? 

For sure. 2" Pushes, heals, new bonus actions, shots with (+) on minions, focus...

5 minutes ago, RiceP. said:

Pull is a great trigger indeed, but i wouldn't call freikorps a shooty crew, so spending 3 to 4 turns with a master running from enemy to enemy and placing them here and there just so lazarus could place a shockwave or freikorpsmann land a two damage shot insn't exactly a neat idea to me. More to say, i had greater succes when i was using lazarus pull, so i could shoot with VS.
And other thing is that VS now benefits his crew by stanying with them (aura, throwing upgrades range) and not charging in like he used to in m2e.

Pull + Trapper Rocket Launcher/Rifle shot. Come on!
The aura everyone says is worthless and upgrades that are "not worth master's AP beyond turn 1"

Sure, he shouldn't rush in and try to wreack faces like he did in M2E. But he can initiate some great combos with his Pull resulting in plenty of damage.
Also, not sure Lazarus can react to Pull, since he doesn't target any models with his grenade launcher.

23 minutes ago, Zebo said:

Because shooting is what he does, and min 3 is the only good thing of his shoot. You are not gonna spend all but the first (at most the second) turn giving upgrades, and then all he has is a 2/4/5 gun with a bad trigger. 

Or his hand with a great trigger?
Plus his Upgrade-attaching trigger does plenty of other things that are helpful on turns beyond 1.

I just don't get it. His range attack lost 1 min damage, and all of the sudden he's a midiocre master? How does that work?

Yeah, discarding almost all weak cards by turn 4 was too much for such a low price.

This.. is too little? Maybe? Needs testing

Maybe it was due to him having more utility than dedicated shooting Masters like Perdita?
I mean, this change made it so Schill's, Parker's and Dita's damage tracks are the same now. The differences are that Parker gets (+) to his shots but on stat 5, 'Dita gets stat 7, both get 2" less range than Schill, but acquire different ways to buff their damage, be it from schemes or from Crit. And STILL Schill has a slight advantage in ignoring Hard to Wound.
And all of this is only with having their guns in mind. The rest of their cards are: Schill gets more support and placement actions/triggers, 'Dita gets mainly offencive actions and Parker is a mixed bag.
All in all, I guess 2/4/5 is fair and isn't an issue for Schill.