Thedeadclaw

3 hours ago, yool1981 said:

I think it makes cards easier to apprehend and less scary for new players.

It also makes errata much easier to handle.

Honestly I would have been much more intimidated when starting if I had to look up all the standard abilities any time they came up, and it would have lead to me ignoring huge chunks of models abilities because I forgot they were there.

Based on 2E (because 3E will change this some) Lilith is hands down the right choice for the Neverborn half of the starter set. Lots of Nephilim, all with the Black Blood trigger, and very aggressive. She is being put in Dead Man's Hand next edition but most of her box will still be useful, and Nekima, another useful puchase and a henchman for her in 2E, will be replacing her archetypal mastership.

I personally don't play Guild, so I may be wrong, but McMorning goes well with the starter Guild crew afaik. (I plan to run him as a Resser, so it's a little bit different there.) I imagine that Lady Justice could also use the crew fairly well though!

This looks incredible! Every new preview we get just increases my hype for 3e! Can't wait to get to see these at tournaments!

Personally I think Dark Debts and The Thunder are the best bets. Sonia and Lady Justice both have some shakeups between 2e and 3e lore wise so I expect some serious changes to their crews, and part of Lady J's might be Dead Man's Handed. If you're playing 10T both Lynch and Misaki have great applications in both editions. I actually like the Zoraida box set but it's probably for the best to wait and see if her models are a little more helpful to tie into her controlling themes in the 3e box set. I'd grab Sonia next after the 10T sets. Hope that helps!

Since they're technically a Neverborn race and they don't have the Black Blood trait it's red.

Personally, my favorite Penny Dreadful is free! It's a very short no combat adventure that should only last a session from Wyrd Chronicles #18! It's one of the first adventures my players will be playing. Night of the Carver plays a lot difference imo later in the campaign because there's a greater impact. (Trying not to be super spoilery lol!) Heart of Darkness is solidly okay, and I haven't played Jurassic Faux yet, but I highly recommend Bad Blood, Child of Flame and Madman Interrupted. It's not available online yet, but the story encounter booklet for Amphibious Assault has a great module for springtime too.

I'm going to be doing this when I get my Tara, and personally I'll be using a hand drill instead of a craft drill just because it gives a more steady and easily controlled final product. If you use a craft drill be prepared to need to do a lot of internal sanding and polishing to make it not look like you took a drill to it. But no, unless your model shifts mid drill or you have the power on too high you don't risk shattering the model, this is a very common modification. I'd recommend either buying one of the $11 figures (the cheapest ones) and testing on it first or (less helpful but still better than going in blind) doing a tester on part of the sprue.

Good luck, let us know how it goes!!

1 hour ago, Primate said:

Maybe that's part of the reason I could never play Seamus. I don't see him as cartoonishly evil, there's plenty real in there. He's just scum. Rasputina on the other hand has done some horrific stuff, but i find her whole thing grounded enough in fantasy that i don't really care as much.

It also helps that Seamus is based on a real person and Rasputina is based on myths imo. Like Rasputina has a lot of Baba Yaga influence in her character arc, but Seamus feels like they took real serial killers and amped them up past 100.

2 hours ago, Sgt. Dave said:

To me the Arcanists, no matter how sympathetic their cause, are still a terrorist organisation.

23 minutes ago, Primate said:

Also, Arcanist here and what they do isn't justifiable either. Hopefully with Ramos out the picture things improve.

19 minutes ago, Merchant said:

I feel like it's just going to get worse / crazier without papa ramos keeping everyone in line

Once again, the Arcanists don't fit all of the traits to be a terrorist organization, and we have no evidence that anyone besides Ramos was willing to use terrorist tactics to accomplish their goals.

2 hours ago, Sgt. Dave said:

pardon the IRA

I'm not sure where you're from, but the IRA is actually eight different groups, some of which are strictly political, some are terrorists, and one of which was a revolutionist movement (the original one). I had family in Ireland when the original was active and from first hand accounts from my great grandfather and his kids, as well as family friends who immigrated around the same time, the IRA was not what a lot of pop culture portrays them as, and a lot of the "terrorist" ideals come from British propaganda to try to gain more loyalists in Ireland. So I'm not sure that that comparison is really as apt as you think. Honestly given the location of Wyrd headquarters I'm almost 100% certain that the Arcanists are loosely based on what became the United Mine Workers of America and that the violent insurrection is more in reference to the West Virginia Coal Wars, which happen around the same time as the events of Malifaux are happening but couldn't have happened in West Virginia because of the timeline. There's actually some pretty direct parallels in targets chosen by Ramos and Ironsides to suggest this as well as models that appear to be inspired by influential people from the war if anyone's interested.

34 minutes ago, Primate said:

Sometimes you can help more people within the framework it provides, even if it's an awful authoritarian government.

Strongly disagree. It's a point of contention in a lot of both academic groups and historically in revolutionary groups and personally I think there's evidence that the opposite is true, historically.

35 minutes ago, Primate said:

Ironsides just compromised her beliefs to allow the Guild to do a tremendous social good, and she hates them more than anyone.

Again, the Guild is almost certainly lying to her, which is even alluded to in the book, and the promises are so broad and unclear that they can easily be reneged or broken without real ramifications. Honestly it just shows that Ironsides is losing her convictions imo.

37 minutes ago, Primate said:

If you're going to compare them to the Nazis, remember that even Schindler was a member of the Nazi party. They're the government, working for them doesn't taint you necessarily.

Really? Are you sure it doesn't? Maybe you should tell that to the Nuremberg trials. There's a difference between being a double agent and working for a corrupt and evil organization and thinking that doesn't taint you.

2 hours ago, Sgt. Dave said:

I suppose the easiest answer is you have to remember the people within the Guild. The death marshalls, (some of) the guild guard, the reporters, and the secretaries. The people who are doing what they do for the Guild because they think it's the right thing to do. As you've pointed out a few times, the other factions seem to be doing the right thing in the wrong way at times. The Guild, in my opinion, feels more like the wrong thing being done by the right people. I'd bet that every underling in the guild is there because the pay was good enough to support themselves and/or their family.

Honestly I tried to think of any other way to say this in a less inflamatory way because I honestly don't mean this as an attack on you or anyone who likes the Guild. But. That sounds literally exactly like how people talked about nazi soldiers to try to pardon then for war crimes ans being implicit in genocide. Which kindof makes me less sympathetic than I was.

IIRC Fated Almanac and Fatemaster's Almanac were the first edition versions of the Core rulebook for second edition and everyone just needs the core book and any expansions you're using now.

1 hour ago, Merchant said:

tara (oblivion)

Her being associated with Oblivion doesn't instantly damn her, and it certainly doesn't make her worse than Seamus. Tara doesn't do nearly as much to advance Oblivion's goals as any other Tyrant's chosen person to work with, which doesn't make her hands clean of any wrongdoings but certainly doesn't put her in the running for worst person or most evil. nicodem, McMorning, Albus, Kaeris and Marcus aren't killing people and then banging them too. That's a huge part of Seamus, is that a big part of his killing spree is having dead people to bang. He's definitely higher than people who just kill or have some political motive imo. But again, this thread isn't really meant to be about whether other masters are bad, it's supposed to be about what's supposed to make the Guild sympathetic.

1 hour ago, Merchant said:

Leveticus (who lobotomizes people[women] to be able to use them to avoid death as well as other needs)

He also has that weird thing with Alyce, at least early on, and she's definitely either 16 or 17 at the time, I can't remember which, so... Yeah, he might take the cake lol

I absolutely agree about Molly and Reva being the only two good Ressers. In fact, they're two of the four I plan to take, although I'd argue that Tara isn't bad either. And if we're counting henchmen, Emeline Bellerose and Asura Roten are two of the most sympathetic characters in the setting for me at least. And yes, Seamus almost put me off the whole faction actually. But the motivations are more sympathetic (except for Seamus, Nicodem and McMourning) and more importantly the whole hook is on necromancy. Necromancy has a whole evil connotation, so it's part of the appeal of the faction as a whole. The Guild, on the other hand, has the hook of "the arm of the law" but then doesn't follow through. I'm not personally interested in a "the arm of the law" faction anyways, although I can appreciate it, but that's why I'm talking about how morally bankrupt the Guild is.

The other factions have their issues but they're part in parcel with their hook. Yes, the Neverborn kill people to try to rid their land of invaders, but their hook is that they're monsters. Sure, a lot of the Resurrectionists are bad people, but they're necromancer, and there's plenty of good ones to pick from if you decide you don't want to play the villain. It's part of what you're signing up for, so it's something I get. Personally I don't see the appeal in playing as en evil oppressive regime, but if you enjoy that then I'm genuinely glad you get to have that! For me that's a disconnect with what the Guild is trying to be and there's just too much discord between what it's supposed to be and what it is for me to be interested. Again though, I'm not trying to say other factions are better, or that the Guild is the worst faction lore wise. I'm just asking what the appeal is to people since I personally can't see it. Thanks to everyone who's chimed in with different takes so far, it's honestly been really nice to hear why people like to pick the faction!

You know, Marcus's activities are pretty tame compared to the rest of Malifaux, but honestly the Cult of December isn't terrorist, it's just a fanatical religious group which while bad isn't terrorism. I will absolutely concede that Ramos uses terrorist tactics, but the definition for terrorism has to be threefold. One, they're doing something to intimidate or terrify someone into doing what they want. Two, what they are doing to accomplish that result is illegal. Three, the person they are intimidating has to be a citizen, not associated with a police force, military, government or rival syndicate. So a lot of the things Kaeris and Ironsides do isn't terrorism for missing one or more of those points, and even Ramos is pretty inconsistent with whether he'll use those tactics. Ultimately I can concede that Ramos was probably a terrorist, but the Arcanist group as a whole? I don't think there's enough evidence to suggest other people in the organization were willing to use those tactics in pursuit of their goals.

Honestly I don't remember the 10T story involved so I'll reread before I say something one way or another, but while I remember the 10T doing a lot of intimidation, but very little if any of it hit all three criterion if I'm remembering right. I did read the whole lore in about two months; I'm doing a more thorough read through now because I realized I completely forgot about huge swathes of events trying to cram that quickly lol, so it's honestly possible I'm just not remembering the things you're talking about with both of these groups, but I wouldn't by the whole call either terrorist groups based on what I remember of the lore and what I've gotten through so far on my more thorough read through.

1 hour ago, Merchant said:

Hoffman is the "goodest" guy in setting, he keeps most of the guild corruption out of the amalgam offices and operates off the laws

I totally agree, Hoffman is great, but some of his choices have been questionable and unsympathetic at best. I actually really think he's trying to do what's right, but his own brother even hated the office he ended up working as the head of which isn't exactly a glowing commendation. I think he's definitely the most sympathetic Guild master though, for sure, because he genuinely is just trying to help people not get hurt.

1 hour ago, Merchant said:

As for the Ortegas, they arnt just monster hunters, they are martials and sheriffs of the frontier, they are also farmers. They look after and help the frontiers people not just as protectors but they teach them how to work the land and will also help the homesteaders get settled, making her and her family celebrities and heroes to those folk.

The Ortegas are kindof just... entirely unsympathetic to me. A lot of the Through The Breach modules suggest the Ortegas don't do much to help the homesteaders even when monsters attack (Amphibious Assault's story encounter comes to mind, but I'm pretty sure there are more). And like, they still gleefully kill off innocents for money. The gremlin hunt started because the gremlins were harassing carriages passing through their own settlement, which isn't entirely unreasonable. Regardless of what the Neverborn have done since (which is monstrous, admittedly, and part of the faction's intrigue), the Ortegas attacked them first. We have every reason to believe the Neverborn would have attacked anyways, especially the Nephilim, but the Ortegas established Latigo and attacked without provocation.

1 hour ago, Merchant said:

I guess the appeal to the guild is being the law. running cowboys, ghost rider looking zombie hunters, witch hunters, robot armies, or simply being a minion master or achieving victory through bad press and slander. If you like fighting fire with fire or simply running a hand full of the settings most popular/main characters, that might be why you like the guild.

This makes a lot of sense. I like definitely understand all of these, but for most of them there's another master with a similar theme I just like more. I think I get why people would like the guild at least though.

1 hour ago, Zebo said:

Arcanists are exactly what Guild sais they are. A group of terrorists that only pursues the power and the control of Soulstones's traffic through the breach.

That's just untrue lore wise. There's definitely a dark underbelly in the Aracanist smuggling ring, but it's absolutely not a terrorist group. They profit off of their group's own labor since they were the ones who mined the soulstones, and they use Colette's crew to make smuggling easier, sure. But there's nothing they've done to mark them as terrorists, unless I'm missing something. Sure, Rasputina has a weird cult, which is pretty dark. Yes, Ramos is a greedy slime ball. But overall the workers just want better wages and safer working conditions. There's a syndicate, but it's not a terrorist group for having protests or breaking smuggling laws. You can definitely argue that the Arcanists aren't good people by and large, and while I disagree I could see where you're coming from, but even if they are bad they're nowhere near what the Guild makes them out to be and they're certainly not terrorists.

1 hour ago, Zebo said:

Almost exactly the same than Ten Thunders. 

The Ten Thunders exclusively deal in organized crime and espionage, which is about as far from terrorism as you can get while still doing crime. Moreover like I said, the draw to the Ten Thunders is that you're playing a crime group. It's immersion so I get the appeal. I can't reconcile what the Guild canonically does with the idea of them enforcing the laws though, which makes it harder to place myself where I can see where they're coming from.

I definitely can see what might draw some people to the Guild from a lore perspective, and once the new TTB modules drop maybe there'll be lore to change my mind, but I think it's just not a faction for me maybe.

As much as I want to like all of Malifaux, I've read most of the lore and can't see much to endear the Guild to me. Every time I start to care about Lady Justice and her righteous quest I'm reminded that the guild enslaves people and puts some of them to forced prostitution; every time I almost root for Nellie I remember the current GG wants to kill all people in Malifaux with magic.

The other factions have a hook, you know?

Neverborn lets you play as monsters trying to protect their home; Resurrections generally start out trying to save their loved ones from death or just survive as an undead themselves; Arcanists are mostly fighting for their right to exist and in some cases workers' rights to safer work conditions; the Outcasts have a variety of playstyles but are just people who don't fit in with society; the Ten Thunders let you play as a crime syndicate; the Gremlins are comic and fun and aren't as serious as most factions. But what do the Guild have? The description page for them even calls them a fascist organisation, they don't even follow the laws when punishing people (even ignoring how arguably unjust some Guild laws are), the profiteer off of the deaths of millions, they actively hunt down any opposition to their political order and they kill anything that already lived in Malifaux so they don't have to deal with it. So I guess I'm wondering why I'm supposed to want to play them. I have masters in four factions right now, and I'm hoping to branch into Arcanists and Outcasts with the Black Friday sale if they have the nightmare kits I want, but as much as I keep trying I just can't see what people like about the Guild to draw me into it.

Of course, I realize some people don't read the stories and only pick based on aesthetics or gameplay, but for me I pick my masters based on the lore and then pick the models to support their style of gameplay the best.

I personally like to have a Teddy at the ready to summon against highly aggressive matchups. I just played a game last night where I barely kept Dreamer alive long enough to pull out Chompy Bits and win, and if I'd had Teddy with me summoning him would have blocked LOS and given some better protection early on. I only won by sheer luck as is, lol

I got my spouse the Nightmare Ulix box kit for their birthday last Saturday, so we hadn't opened it til then, but it only came with stat cards, no upgrades. Is that normal for Nightmare editions? If so, how can we get the upgrades without needing to buy the original box? I plan on getting (if they're available this year) Curiosity Killed the Cat, Winter Wonderland and Nightmare Tara during the Black Friday sale, so it'd be great to already know what I need to order if the upgrades just aren't included in Nightmare editions. 

There are oceans mentioned in 1E book one when they go to the Kytherea Dow Ruins, but it's unclear exactly how far apart the Ruins are from the wilderness Marcus lives in. It's referred to as the sea though, so we can expect since it took about a day and a half to cross in a steam engine that it's only maybe the size of the Meditarianian at its smallest point. But there's no canon answer to overall size of Malifaux that I've found.

Hey! I haven't been playing the game for long but since starting in late July I've devoured most of the available lore and still haven't seen anything for Rocinante Benoit, the Ulix nightmare from Gencon. I don't know when the Caitlyn Abernathy lore was released last year, but I was wondering if anyone knew if there was any Rocinante lore yet or when we might see some? Obviously she won't be part of the main cast or books, but the lore for Mr. Cooper was one of the best stories, and I'm really curious how they'll make Rocinante fit into the lore!

11 hours ago, Mason said:

Just remember, a writer having subtext in the mind when they write a story doesn't necessarily make that subtext canon.

Is that explicit confirmation that they aren't canonically together?

It's always down for the week before a sale. It should be back up late tonight or early tomorrow morning, prominently featuring the sale. It's been down since Sunday

9 hours ago, Da Git said:

I didn't think there were any certainties in this regard... I'm guessing the two you're referring to are Colette/Cassie & Tara/Karina (more likely to be a couple of the pair).  To mind my they could still go either way (& I have absolutely no issue with which way they go) because it hasn't actually been spelt out. They could be lovers or just really close friends

Not at all to start a fight but the writer for Tara's story has on multiple occasions explicitly confirmed that they're together and Colette and Cassandra, who both confirm that they're both into men and women, kiss each other in a TTB module and iirc they do in one of the main stories too, which isn't really just friendly behavior, so they've both been pretty spelled out and are both confirmed to be lovers. (Just wanted to let you know because it's one of my favorite parts of the game and I wanted to be sure you knew they're both explicitly together, although I suppose Colette and Cassandra could have broken up offscreen at some point theoretically!)

It's also of note that there's at least two canonically gay couples in the game as characters you can play. I know it doesn't sound super important, but it's a big part of what pulled my spouse and I into this game! We hadn't ever seen a minis game do that and it means a lot to see a company make characters like you, especially when no one else does. Wyrd's been great from what I can see for a long time, and I hope they keep up the good work for years to come!

2 minutes ago, ShinChan said:

For those people complaining about Nicodem/Lilith/Collodi. I bought Nicodem 3 months ago and paid for a pro painted of more than 70ss for making different playlist with him. I didn't have the time to use it a single time yet, and I'm not complaining about it. If you want to play those models, just talk to your TOs and ask them to allow the "Dead Man" masters, I can not see the problem. They're getting an update and could come back in the future.

Honestly if that's an amount of money you don't get upset about I think you're fundamentally in a different situation than those of us who are miffed about it