bsm86

On 3/2/2019 at 10:50 AM, Raging_Iggy said:

However, if my interpretation isn't wrong, and if we are talking of a condition like burning (Iggy), you can give burning + ping from iggy's aura in the first attack, then you can use the Pandora's misery to ping again in the second attack. This does not come in when a condition with only 1 instance is applied because it is not "gained again". This doesn't apply to a single burning attack either, because you can't stack auras.

Am I figuring it right? 

Interesting question that greatly affects Misery and its effectiveness.

Since the abilities (e.g. The Box Opens or Corrupted Innocence) simply state "[...]gain Stunned[...]" I'd assume that models still "gain conditions" if they're already suffering from them. The rulebook does not indicate that you become immune to gaining a condition only by already suffering from it. A model can't be Stunned +X so further applications of Stunned do not change the game state by gaining them - however, they're still gained.

15 minutes ago, Angelshard said:

I really hope they switch misery so it's the woe that gets affected. That would improve that ability so much. 

I can see where you're coming from but I for one am really not sure what I'd prefer.

Sure, positioning yourself is always a neat thing but I do appreciate the possibility to mess with the opponents positioning. The opponent tries to get himself and his models in a certain spot in order to be able to score points or to attack your models. If you move his/her models around in a way that they are not able to score or attack then in my view the benefit is far better then moving your own models in a zigzag (which would be the result if you want to roughly keep your positioning but only avoid certain attacks).

That said, it'd probably be best if we had the other option for a couple of weeks as well and then decide which route to go. 

9 minutes ago, Adran said:

You mean the rule that says if a model would be affected by more than 1 aura then it is only affected by 1 aura of its controllers choice?

No, it doesn't.

If you look at the second example in the current rules where they have an aura which only affecst the model holding the aura, it says that all such auras can be triggered by 1 instance, and because the individual modle is the one being affected, each aura is only affecting 1 model.

I still read the second example as only procing once. Misery lets you push the enemy model, not the model with the aura. Therefore I still think we are in the first example of page 33 right column.

I'd prefer your interpretation though... 😉

5 minutes ago, bedjy said:

True enough ! But 0 bat reps still !!  

Unfortunately, yes

5 hours ago, bedjy said:

So there we are, we are about to see a new update today and I didn't see any bat rep of the Monks since last update... I won't blame anybody, as I'm a bit discouraged to playing them also, since there has been no real improvement (I mean, some that would make me want to push my models on a table) since the end of the CB...

I've been playing many games, pointing out again and again everything that bothered me and some cool ways to improve it, without just crying for buff, but nothing was heard.

So with the lack of bat rep, I just fear a big "no change" for this crew, which already makes me sad  

No posted bat reps does not mean nobody filled the form and handed it in to Wyrd directly. As stated in the bat rep sub forum the posts are completely optional.

4 hours ago, Adran said:

Actually I think I was wrong and every misery aura can go off the first application of stunned. (The Aura section of page 33 has an example of Misery, which only works once, but it was the old misery. The current scamper example is more applicable).

Wouldn't that directly contradict the rule of Auras not stacking? Meaning that you can overlap auras but you can only use one aura at a time?

12 hours ago, Yajnho said:

The damage track is sad. It’s got a trigger to improve it which will never go off because you removed stunned to get the plus twist. It’s glimps ability is a stat 4. So it’s pretty difficult to apply the stunned itself. Movement tricks are great, but it only moves itself and doesn’t do much when it gets there.

Sad but true

2 minutes ago, AlexDS said:

I find the whole "once per activation" wording really confusing and in need of a change or clarification. Is it that: A) The particular abillity only can trigger once, during each new models activation making it possible to move the target up to 2" for every model in play, or; B) the abillity can only trigger once during each and every models activation or; C) the abillity can only trigger once, and only if the effected model is in fact the active model. 

Yes, Im overthinking it, but its still unclear, since to me an activation is a refferance to the active model. 

It is in fact D)

The ability can be used once per activation for every model that is qualified to use the ability; e.g. if a model activates within 4" of Candy it gets the Stunned condition and can be moved by Candy's Misery aura. If it then goes Reckless and receives Fast it can be moved again by Pandora's aura. The same model then targets Pandora and due to the Df trigger it receives Stunned and thus can be moved by any other WOEs aura (that is not Candy or Pandora since their aura has already been used).

Due to the overall working of auras in M3E you can only move a model once per applied condition but as often as you have qualifying auras at hand. 

3 hours ago, Angelshard said:

Heck, a lot of people prefers teddy, a model that only has synergy with kades quick action, to carver, a woe henchman. I personally like carver. 

I like Carver as well, the model as well as the possibilities he offers. However, between Candy and Dora you're already heavily dependent on soulstones in order to keep those key models alive. Supporting a third model with SS would always bring this nagging "but what if..." voice in my head.

Teddy is more self-reliant and has a lot more staying power - and even brings some synergy with Baby Kade as well. 

I do agree that the synergy between WOEs is more a general type of synergy that has nothing to do with the keyword. An Aversion would be a good fit in almost any crew since you can really mess with the opponents positioning with next to no effort at all. The aura is great and Scatter is almost too good to go live...

Poltergeist's only real justification is that he's free. Getting Distraction working basically means sacrificing it. I use him as a Schemerunner; 0 SS and Mv 6 with Incorporeal - what more do you really want?

Sorrows... I really don't know. If I take them, they are usually underwhelming at best. If I don't take them, there are guaranteed 3 times when I'd give a kingdom for a Life Leech aura. They could really use a slight buff, either to the stat on Glimpse or a cost reduction.

❤️ Lyssa! Still don't know if those are he, she or it. Doesn't matter in English since there's only one article, but as a German I never know which gender article to use 😅

2 hours ago, Saduhem said:

The crew isn't broken or anything, and I could see a tiny buff to their new aura, but Woes have great in-keyword models with oodles of synergy.

Misery should really be a 6" aura instead of 4".

This and maybe a slight change to Despair's Influence so that Dora can discard up to 2 (maybe 3) cards in order to put the effect on her + 1 (2) friendly model. Or maybe make it a minimal effort duel like Titania's The Queen's Command where she gets a trigger to do it again (probably not on Mask then...). 

5 minutes ago, Kapten said:

 I think Pandora is strong because she can discard card to keep a model from activating. This gives you the potential to actually kill it (unless it is a MS&U model with +flips and tons of dmg reduction and heals...).  

Pandora is so strong because she does not need to kill the model in order to render it next to useless. Clever positioning and use of Grasping Tentacles and you can reduce the most potent Henchman to only getting one hit off which you then just stone to a and then prevent. Between Butterfly Jump (from Inhumand Reflexes) and Misery most models won't get more than that one hit. 

48 minutes ago, I'm a Teapot! said:

The problem of malifaux m3e: Everything costing you stones that is not reliably doing its job until it dies isnt worth it for competitive play. 

That appears to be more of a general approach of tournament play. Since the input is always given (= 50SS) you want to maximize the output. Some models are going to make that cut, others wont - no real issue here.

I honestly don't think that every model needs to be viable in a tournament environment. Everything will boil down to a couple of models that will always be played and that's totally fine for a tournament. Sure, it can get boring from time to time but at least you won't bring a knife to a gunfight.

2 minutes ago, Yajnho said:

Was Montresor not in range? He prevents Lyssa from using opportunist I think. 

It's not that hard to move Monty out of position using Lures or the new Misery

I guess it comes down to the way the "Severe" trait is written:

"[...] movement effects are reduced by half [...]"

Not being affected by Underbrush Markers is supposed to mean that you are not affected by the different terrain traits i.e. you don't need to reduce your movement in Severe or you don't suffer damage from completing actions in Hazardous.

Still, when your move ends or your action is resolved you are still in Severe / Hazardous terrain thus being affected by all mechanics that refer to a model being in Severe / Hazardous terrain.

You still get Concealment yourself since it is affecting the targeting model, not the targeted one.

I do agree that it may be spelled out a little bit more straight forward. Terrain interaction is and has always been quite complex and all efforts to "simplify" Malifaux should not result in unclear descriptions of terrain and interactions with it.

P.S.: English is not my native language though so I still might be wrong in my understanding of some of the wordings.

After several games with mixed success, I don't think Rougarou are worth the investment of 10 SS - at least not all the time. 

Yes, the potential damage is huge but if you run vs. Ressers or anything with HtW and/or Armor it's pretty much 1-2 damage you will deal per hit. With Df 4 he will go down easy as well... sure, the Gorar can bring him back once but then your upgrade will be gone.

Emissary or Bad Juju would be my picks if there is no Killjoy allowed.

Yes. I don't have the page at hand but there is passage in the rulebook that states that one action (and all its consequences) must be resolved before a new action can start.

19 minutes ago, Raging_Iggy said:

Killjoy is slow guys. That's the problem. A 6" reach is so bad on a melee beater.

I tested titania last week, bringing JuJu + Rider. So much mobility, so much reach, so much sinergy with titania. Would never take killjoy over JuJu

Sure, but Titania, Aeslin and others can serve him models with "Into Thorns" with no issue whatsoever.

If you're more satisfied with the out of keyword options than more power to you. Others might want to stay in keyword and those have a solid option with the current iteration of Killjoy.

Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking with The Dragon Commands It... it was quite early here in Germany when I typed this.

Thanks for clearing things up though! 

4 hours ago, TheDefenestrator said:

Bedjy: changelog says concentrate is once per activation, which will almost never matter for a monk crew.

Kyle said it himself, they're asking us specifically for battle reports and constructive, actionable feedback. So that's what we need to provide to make sure our faction is fun, thematic, and competitive when m3e drops.

Why would it „never matter“?

Shenlong attaches an Upgrade, a Monk may use Concentrate. If he does, Shenlong can‘t for the remainder of his activation. Also, he can‘t „The Dragon Commands It“ to make a different Monk use Concentrate. Same goes when he switches his Style by Trigger. 

In addition, you can‘t spend Turn 1 loading up on Chi which makes it significantly harder to use this crews uniqze abilities...

Did I get the „Once per Activation“ wrong or are all of those now impossible?

1 hour ago, bedjy said:

Currently we'll almost always want to go fight with fermented river style and Shenlong's own attack action that generate chi rather than costing some.

• Maybe the symbol could be built-in for the Changing Style Trigger ?
• Spiritual alignment should be back as an attack action
• Upgrade’s action could not cost Chi, but the Changing Style could ?
• Wandering River Style should really be able to move our own model. Maybe the placing of markers could be a built-in trigger on ennemy only, or only if Shenlong takes the action ? Maybe reduce the push to 4" or 5"

Overall, I would have loved Shenlong (or Sensei Yu) to have Shouting Orders (Monks) for the proper Chi generation. I think the cost of a card and the use of the is right

 

I particularly like and support the highlighted idea. That would fit the whole idea behind the Confluxes better: Shenlong spends a Chi in order for his Monks to get some.

2 minutes ago, Andrew James Princep said:

Equally, as other people have pointed out, it was what made Cheating Bastard Lynch such a ridiculous powerhouse late in M2e, if you are trying to claim that the ability is not good. several of the top players in the UK piloted this very successfully

You do realize that Cheating Bastard and Aura of Deception are different things entirely?

I used to play the Effigy in almost every game with Pandora and Lilith to give them the push. However, I used the aura probably 3-5 times in 100+ games. It just wasn't worth having to micromanage my positioning in such a way for next to no real benefit.

That said, it is pretty lackluster to make the aura even worse now that you require to use an action for it. I'd probably only use it when I know that or at least it's statistically highly likely that the next card on my deck is a weak which I want to remove. Otherwise I wouldn't bother; not to mention even cheat for it.

1 hour ago, Zebo said:

Because it's short ranged and situational, cheating face down is an advantage ALWAYS. 

Nope, it's only useful when you lose the initial flip. If the opponent already cheated what's the aura good for?!

2 hours ago, kylevalent said:

i think you can use it to any woe anywhere since there's no range number

Despair must have pretty long arms!

17 minutes ago, Caspergad said:

9 inch, battle tempo is start of turn not activation so it's a matter of initiative, almost just like if she set her self up the turn before. Anyway I think we can agree to disagree, cause I think Pandora is in a very good spot, she i challenging to play against and my regular opponent find her good and interesting to play. But I will continue to point out, that being able to use once per turn/activation abilities multiple times is not alright, as the ability is balanced around that restriction, and it's a huge swing for Pandora to nuke a master like Seamus or Parker for 12 damage...

Copying Attacks with a "once per turn" restriction is not the topic of the current debate. I'm sure most will agree with you that this is a pretty serious advantage Dora has - however this is still only an advantage in her offense. I wouldn't mind if she could not do it anymore.

The crux with her is her ability to stay alive in the close quarters that she needs to be in in order to not waste almost all that makes her a Master in the first place (i.e. most of the stuff on her card - front and back). Yes, she has her upsides and there are matchups in which she excels due to Opportunist or the possibility to shut down combos with Mood Swings. But her Trigger is only a paper tiger; a Minion on Stat 5 with a 13 will hit her and thus render it useless. And there is no situation in which the opponent would really risk it; loading the hand with some Severes is now easier than ever.

I agree that Dora is in a good spot offensively. She is extremely annoying once she is in the middle of the enemy crew and when you had the chance to deliver some Stunned she won't go down instantly. She can also just kill a model outright if need be. But still, it is not that hard to avoid contact with one or two heavy hitters and then it comes down to Soulstones to keep her alive.

Dora does not need some whacky stuff like Armor, HtW or the likes. I don't even think she needs a higher Df stat. Making her Trigger slightly more useful is all the Defense she needs right now.