wafew

2 minutes ago, Regelridderen said:

Yup, just couldn’t resist the model, so she’ll be an alt Teddy. Luckily I found Miss Ery too - the ‘normal’ Teddy is one of the few Wyrd models I label ‘boring’.

If you ever get into outcasts, i marlena does fit on the regular teddy, so there's always that

Are you using marlena webster as an alternate teddy? if so, isn't it an awesome teddy?

First, you need serena bowman and her upgrades, this makes the sorrows both from the shadows, which helps with their poor movement, and makes them a nightmare, which is great, because this means your day dreams can push them every turn. Also, i'd get the tantrum upgrade, which adds more synergy with sorrows counting as an extra tick of damage, and also tantrum's attack is resisted by willpower. Another thing you'll want is a woe with the depression upgrade, which grants other woes a 1 ap, ranged, wp-resisted attack. which sorrows really need. lilitu would be a great choice, being a nightmare, woe, and has a wp resisted lure which will bring enemies closer to your death bubble, but any woe which fits your build is good.

now that you got your basics, you can do what you want. find a way to make the sorrows more durable, ( ie: iggy w/ martyr ), make it harder for people to resist duels ( ie: insidious madness, mr tannen), add units that attack wp ( literally anything ), ways to bring targets closer ( ie: lilitu ).

Let me know what you come up and how it goes if you play it out. but before you play this out, you should play some regular pandora first, one thing she can provide the sorrows that the dreamer can't is her totem, which has an aura that makes units take a to wp duels, so you'll want to find out what daydreams can provide that the poltergeist can't. and on that note, you may find out that pandora and her totem provide a warm spot for alps in return too, and you can make a list around that too.

I've noticed the synnergy and built a crew around it, but have yet to play it.

5 hours ago, LunarSol said:

 you can always take the better value for free.  ( In relations to hiring multiple masters )

Do note, that only the master you get for free, gets to hire the keywords without penalty.

If you wanted to play a game freikorps themed, and you wanted Leveticus, and if we pretend that Leveticus is 16ss, and von schill is 14ss, you would still want to get von schill for free, otherwise you'd have to pay all the freikorps tax.

Just now, Zebo said:

And about out of faction minis with the same keyword? I'm worrying for Anna Lovelace in my VS crew

My guess would be that hiring through keyword isn't exclusive for in faction.

It seems that non-keyword non-general faction models are the new mercenary.

11 minutes ago, Oblivion awar said:

Sue: Made everything what I have expected from him. Not a lot to discuss. I think one of the best model and looks like it will always found a place for him in my list. Only issue is a Return Fire upgrade. I've took it to all games and never used it, because all his deaths comes from swords/claws/hexes.

Return fire works regardless of the method that attacks the model, it's just that the model with the upgrade has to use a shoot, and sue has a shoot attack that has  2", so if a melee or cast attacks sue, he can still use his shoot back at them.

11 minutes ago, Oblivion awar said:

Steam trunk: Not sure that 3 points worth  ability to discard a card for 1/2/3 heal as given (0) to everyone within 4". That's all.

a card of any value for a heal is great, plus it removes poison, the trunk can also remove burning, and also remove corpse / scrap markers. you may not see the need for those things against a lot of crews, but it makes a world of difference against some.

11 minutes ago, Oblivion awar said:

Librarian: Survives little bit longer then specialist, but also does nothing. Can't say something else.

She's a healer, I got Von Schill from 1 wound to fully healed while playing against a Lady Justice. 

11 minutes ago, Oblivion awar said:

Trapper: Made a shot, earn 1 VP from vendetta, earn VP for opponent from prisoner. Was not able to do any other good shots. I personally like the idea of controlling whole table with him except one smaaaall but reasonable argument: 1/3 of table is covered with 2" walls and buildings that preventslos. 

Did you attempt 2 shots with him, or 1 focused shot?

11 minutes ago, Oblivion awar said:

Von Schill: ...about lady justice...

They're different kinds of beater.

Comparing Convict and Sue, Sue seems to be more resilient (against non-SH), and has more utility and general use. Convicts are just there to shoot people and chew bubble gum. ( and their out of bubble gum)

To another complaint I hear about the convicts being slow, why not use your supporting models to help him out? lure your enemy into position, unbury a model in range, have von schill do n it's not delivery, it's nytheria aftermath into their face, or just park them somewhere that you really don't want the enemy to get close to. 

A lovely thing about them having a 2 to their guns is to give them return fire, since melee attacks will allow them to hit back, so if you get them in a nest of enemies, the convicts will do some damage.

Also sue is rare 1, I like to take a couple of convicts with me, so even if i replaced one with sue, i'd take another convict with him ( i don't have sue, so this is all hypothetical)

also, to the person who said convicts weren't reliable Sh6 and  sounds really reliable to me.

ps: why does sue have the prison pistols, and convicts don't?

Another way you could have VS be supporting, and still punch thing, is to attack big targets/master with his jack knife, and cheat/stone to lower their DF, and then have the rest of your crew bunch the target up, works really good with nytheria, since you can place the target away from VS so no randomization happens. I've gotten an enemy master to 1 DF, and my crew had an easy time hitting her, and dealing better damage.

How do asura and the kentobois do with other resser masters?

In my experience playing against nicodem, the problems i faced are : summoning Punk zombies next to my peeps, and companioning into him to slice up my crew with 2x to attack, and not having slow and not caring if it dies after doing all the damage. the only difference in this style is that it'll take me one less AP to kill the punk zombie before i can move my crew for retaliation. The other thing is summoning a hanged, and having him do his thing that can't be undone unless i brought a specific model, still gonna happen.

The difference now is that his summons will possibly be less reliable without the excessive card draw, and I can spend an AP less killing those models before resuming the game, so I'm all in favour for his nerf.

I've also played against the summon a horde of non-slow zombies who get  and use asuras attacks, and that'll likely stay the same tho, but I've only played this once.

All my nicodem games were against the same one person, so my experience is likely different.

26 minutes ago, Zebo said:

Sure? Pull takes place "after succeeding", while Somer's Loudest Squeel is "after an attack action is resolved". 

 

I understand "after succeeding" like after winning the duel, even before the damage flip, while "after resolving" sounds like after the damage and any other trigger. 

 

But not sure. 

There are 4 main "After" things, "After succeeding", "After failling", "After resolving", "After damaging", and they determine if a trigger can be declared, rather than when, these triggers happen after resolving the attack ( Ie: after the damaging or effect part), unless there is an exception such as the witchiling stalkers "After failing but before suffering damage" dictates when the trigger takes place.

Both the Place, and the squeal triggers would take place after resolving the attack. The ability "target practice", states that after a model is pushed or placed, then it can be attacked, so right after the squeal, VS gets to attack.

The rules say the if 2 triggers happen at the same time, the defender's is resolved first. so VS starts a melee action, wins, damages, somer squeals, vs starts a new shoot attack, damages, somer squeals, etc. then all the possible reposition triggers technically happen one after another, and then the placement.

Just Rasputina and Asami.

I keep on meaning to hire mysterious in a zoraida crew with some rooster riders. Because I think cheating from the deck face down will be very confusing and fun.

21 hours ago, Colonel Sanders said:

Student of conflict

 Student heals up and makes Dreamer fast.

If you could add the student on top of the thousand faces +1 action, then you could have 5 summons on turn 1 : P

23 minutes ago, spydr261 said:

That doesn't make sense. It's an odd situation but one that I think could be easily changed to be more intuitive. A way to do it would be to only randomize for models that have LoS to the original target. Maybe in the 3rd edition.

There are quite a few things that don't make sense, that hopefully will get fixed in M3E (IE: Elevation rules )

9 hours ago, Zebo said:

Whaaaaaaaat? [In regards of someone dissing the Strongarm Suit]

You support the Strongarm Suit despite the fact that he has the same Df, Wp, Wk, Cg, Ml stat, Sh stat, Sh range, Wd to SS ratio, base size, and Ht as the nefarious Freikorpsmann!!!!!!! *Exaggerated Gasp*

( I know... I'll leave now... )

9 hours ago, Zebo said:

What can I say? I'm a poet xD

Aight, fair point.

9 hours ago, Zebo said:

Like the Specialist, I must say. 

I'll admit I don't use the specialist in Outcasts ( I do love him with Sonia and Pandora though )

9 hours ago, Zebo said:

 (if I spend cards in improving their power, my opponents simply cheat high in df).

Would the fact that FM can easily up himself to df 7 give him any points with the same logic that it becomes much harder for anyone to hit him, and make him more tanky/valuable/durable?

What would be a cool Infiltration-like ability to hire out of faction models based on their stats/ability/actions?

This idea came to me when finding out about a fake master from one of the books that had basically "infiltration(terrifying)" which let him hire OoF models that had terrifying. And I thought it would be cool if there were ways to hire models based on other abilities, or on stats, like Zoraida who can hire wp 4 or less models.

I'm thinking that a "Silent" and "perfect camouflage" crew with an blunderbuss/hunter type master would be cool.

(is this an acceptable topic/right forum for this?)

19 minutes ago, Mikey_C said:

I think that is just someone having fun with word play, but I agree. If we were to play Marry, F***, Kill with the trapper, engineer and korpsman, I think the korpsman is getting killed everytime.

I would kill the FM too, especially when the engineer has that sexy can opener trigger. But the important question, is who would you Marry???????

19 minutes ago, Mikey_C said:

I can't recall a time that a trapper was totally unable to push out of melee. It may have happened, but it certainly didn't leave any sort of lasting impression on me that it is something I need to look out for. The FM being bad at melee has so seldom been an issue, off hand I can only every recall that one game I had him charge for some reason and I can't remember why, but largely it hasn't been an issue in the slightest.  There have been times it fired into melee and randomized, but that + flip is a real help there because if you do end up targeting your own guy you can often pick a low card and just miss. But this same issue also come us with a regular FM who doesn't have anyting in charge range.

Having a when shooting your own models is not something i considered, quite a valid point. Perhaps I'm just playing FT wrong. I find myself in games where models i want to hit are either hiding well, or engaged with my models, and if all I had was a FT, i then wished i had an FM to charge in.

19 minutes ago, Mikey_C said:

Not necesarily the point I was trying to make. For a zero card investment, the trappers damage track of 2/3/5 is like a FM damage track after the FM has referenced the feild guide for a ram (2/3/6). The trapper gets there with no card investment, the trapper also has the + flip which before cheating occurs avarages to a +2 to the attack stat. On top of this point, the trapper has a built in mask for reposition. So a regular shot from a trapper has +2", almost the effects of a FM feild guiding a ram, AND a free reposition with no card investment. 

Not the point I was trying to make, I doubt I'd give the trapper rams from an engineer either, unless I was trying to 1 shot something turn 1, in which case the engineer is likely not poisitioned to do it. My point was that because the engineer exists and because it has the option of giving the FM a ram which takes his potential damge very high, we will very unlikely see the FM get a buff to compensate for it's (IMO) poor ability to preform reliably.

FT's higher lower-damage track certaintly suits him better. I try and use FM shoot to go for the severe with focusing and field guide to get 7 damage (8 if engineer) , so I'm not bothered that FM has a lower lower-damage tracker. ( I am not denying that this can be card draining if unlucky, but i find it worth it to discard up to 3 cards ( one of which can be an ace ), in order to deal 7 damage, regardless of if it's on a 5ss model or not ).

19 minutes ago, Mikey_C said:

 It is my opinoin that the FM is probably the perfecdt example of a 4.5ss worth model. Which really is the whole reason I think it's bad. It's a wave 1 model that at this point has fallen behind the curve and the "fixes" in place are card intensive and not worth it. But the fact that these "fixes" exist means the FM is stuck where it is presently at. Not good enough for 5ss too good for 4ss.

Would you take 2 FM for 9ss instead of 10ss though? I feel like a SS less wouldn't really change much, but maybe that's just me.

19 minutes ago, Mikey_C said:

For the points I feel like you'd get more reliable results from Anna or the Strongarm. the melee of 5 on the engineer could be bad, could be a good combo the right models though.

Anna and strongman are great and all, but not what i was trying to convey with the text i was making about how FM can be buffed by lowering a targets df with FE, making the FMs more reliable. especially that you don't need to have von schill himself do it with his unsuited can opener. also anna and strongarm can't be used for show of force. also, Why not both? *Mexican music*

19 minutes ago, Mikey_C said:

I'm beating a bit of a dead horse here

Only beating a horse if you say the same things, which you're not, you were explaining in a different/new way.

6 hours ago, Mikey_C said:

I don't think the exagerations are out of place.

I think the whole quote about a whole world apart, and not pluto but Jupiter, as well as "the whole hand" are exaggerations.

6 hours ago, Mikey_C said:

In terms of the trapper, it is just flat out better. 

1) the trapper doesn't care about about melee, it will just push out using it's 0, so the FM being better at it is a moot point.

2) Trapper's min damage compared to a FM is 1 higher, which is like baking in a ram (so there is 1 card you aren't spending on the trapper)

3) The Trappers push trigger is built in, and connected to a + attack, which makes it a) not cost a card and b) more reliable

4) It's also 2ss higher so obviously it should be better. FM can be good but only if they cost you a lot of cards, the trapper preforms without cards, and only ever needs one to push out of melee. 

It should be better, it's more expensive. Not caring about melee doesn't mean melee isn't an important thing, sometimes you can't push far away enough, and you may have times when the only targets would cause randomization and possibly hit your own models. Some models are really good at not getting shot. hit min and average are better, but severe is the same, and FM has better potential at max damage.

a + attack flip is wonderful, and is in fact more reliable, however it doesn't mean that you'll automatically not need to cheat. and it doesn't mean FM will automatically need to cheat either. the only card that FM will 100% spend is for the field guide action. Wether or not you need to cheat in for the attack/damage is up to luck, same for the FT.

6 hours ago, Mikey_C said:

I've run the 2 box FM in Vonschill lists for ages, and only recently took them out, because they just aren't preforming well enough for a 10ss investment, or are costing me cards that are better spent else where.

I appreciate that you have the experience with having thoroughly used them for a while. Did you use take them in every von schill game automatically? did you ever take just one?

6 hours ago, Mikey_C said:

The whole crew wants rams, so it's not worth me spending them on an attack stat of 5 (shooting) when I could use them elsewhere on an attack stat of 6, also typically once oppnents see me invest multiple cards into a FM attack they drop a big card to make it miss.

The same can be said about the FT and his Sh stat of 5.

6 hours ago, Mikey_C said:

I used to be a big defender of the FM, but other models have come out at the 5-6ss cost that outshine them, and the engineer also came out, which hurt the FM in two fold.

The engineer being only 1 cost higher than the FM just looks more desirable, and also since the engineer can add rams to other models it upped the damge output of a FM, which means it is highly unlikely to see any sort of boost.

I think the engineer is amazing, but I see him as running with the FM, rather than replacing the FM, if you charge in with the FE, and can lower the enemies df by 2, then you can have FM follow in with a higher chance to succeed, and get a neutral/positive flip too, and increase a FM's damage on top of that.

when the FE comes out, and Show of force is a scheme in the pool, I plan to use FE, and 2 FM, and have FE give himself +1 armor, and the buff, charge in, weaken an enforcer/hench/master, have 2 FM charge in as well, get the +2df trigger, and sit there. on paper that sounds good to me, still need to try it.

10 hours ago, Zebo said:

 Unimpeded has nothing to do with From the Shadows, since the last is a world better than the first;

I'm not saying it does, I'm saying that the models themselves are similar, not the first ability of theirs that i mention, in fact i'm mentionning the things that ARE different about them. They each have to do with whats best for the respective unit. Of course FtS is better on FT, he's a sniper.

Your argument would be similar to saying that fins are a world better than wings, which is true when speaking of fish.

10 hours ago, Zebo said:

but not a small world like Pluto, but a whole jupiter. 

Why go to that length of exaggeration...

10 hours ago, Zebo said:

Also, put the Trapper in a good spot and can hold the whole battleground.

I'm not arguing that, he's a sniper, it's what he does. 

10 hours ago, Zebo said:

The Freikorpsmann range is quite worse. 

when compared to a focused FT, yes, otherwise, it's just 2" worse. which is quite acceptable, if not better than a lot of other shooting models in the game, which also stands at 1/3 of the board length, which lets him hit a target on the center from where he deploys, and if he sits in the center of the board, has the range to hit anyone within 6" of the sides. FT also has a much worse Melee, and shorter charge range. FT trades his melee, so he can shoot further and a pos flip.

10 hours ago, Zebo said:

And the Trapper can do his work without burning your entire hand. 

Again, why with all the exaggerations... 

You don't have to take/like the model or think it's good, just stop trashing it so hard and keep complainning about it when it has it's strengths. Either nothing is going to change, or Wyrd will buff them, to the point where everyone will take them, and then there'll be another model to trash about until the cycle repeats.

13 hours ago, cbtb11235813 said:

I've never even thought about taking them as a Merc, how do you normally use them/what do they do at 6ss you can't get from an in faction model?

The only reason I even noticed they had the merc characteristic, was for I Pay Better...

I only consider taking them in Neverborn. The big thing they provide that the faction lacks is ranged damaging attacks. From my list of Neverborn, I have counted 9 that have a ranged attack that deal damage, poison, or burning, but none of them really fill the spot that i would take a freikorpsmann for. Others either don't do as much damage, can't attack as far, are more expensive, are not tanky, or lack a good melee. FM sits in a good spot at the middle of all those things.

FM can shoot far 12", which is only surpassed by angel eyes 14".

FM can deal good damage, 1/2/5 turns into a 3/4/7 if you can flip/cheat a ram, and add a ram with his (0), this is a little card intensive, but it can be helped with Jakob discarding an Ace he can draw back, or a zoraida/dreamer crew who earn cards, and it helps to focus and make one attack. Angel eyes is better at doing multiple lower damage shots, tuco and scion are more used for blasts and pulse aoe damage, iggy can dish a lot of damage ( up to 8 burning with 2 attacks and the woe upgrade ) but sometimes it's nice to have something die right away, plus burning can be removed. stiched can deal a lot of damage, but it's both risky, and only has a 6" range.

FM is also tanky, with armor, wp 6, has his freikorps suit, which fits very well in a nephilim crew, can up his df from a 5 to a 7 on a ml trigger ( which he can get from his (0)). He has the same amount of wounds as a blood wretch, of the same price.

and last, FM also has a good melee attack, which gives him additional flexibility. out of the list of shooters i have, scion is the only with both a good gun and melee, for 2ss more, and lower df/wp.

I like this idea! I am a fan of not sticking to the same builds.

A milder idea, would be to have your opponent ban 1 ( or what ever number you decide ) models for the rest of the league. or ban a set of models before the match starts.

My 3 cents.

With Kade and a will o the wisp, you can have 2 Teddies be pushed per turn.

20 minutes ago, PolishSausage said:

Use them, win some tournaments, prove me wrong.

Excited to see your results.

I will! ( the using and posting results part )

I'm still curious as to why people think they need a rehaul, as opposed to buffs, like the other models mentioned.

17 hours ago, Rathnard said:

 

Upper Class Ulix, with everyone dressed in a suit with top hat and monocle. 

YES PLEASE!