Tors

Investigator and Grimwell allows for 7" push into chain activation. Thats pretty nice 

It's B

And it's not only during friendly activations. Your Opponent drops a fitting marker within 4" of two Investigators? Get two Pushes!

Each Investigator can trigger one time during each activation. No matter who controlls said activation.

Due to the timing of marker placement the ability is even triggerd by the dropping corpse marker of a dying Investigator

1 hour ago, Da Git said:

On to Youko, Overall, I like the artwork and execution. If I could humbly offer two critiques, I think she's a bit sexualised with the shoulder of her kimono slipping off (yes, I know she works in a brothel, but I highly doubt the Oneesan (matriarch) would personally "service" the clientele)

Thats were you're wrong ;D

It states "most" models, not all. And i am pretty sure, like all abilities, those will also be balanced with ss-cost.

At least this sneak peak should end the 'over simplification'- worries. 

50 SS Gremlins Crew
Zoraida + 6 Pool
 - Powerful Control (2)
 - Tarot Reading (2)
 - Hex Bag (1)
McTavish (11)
 - Do Over (1)
 - Dirty Cheater (1)
Spawn Mother (8)
Lucky Emissary (10)
 - Conflux of Fate (0)
Iggy (6)
Will O' The Wisp (3)
Will O' The Wisp (3)

 (exported from CrewFaux)

Most regular posters will have joined beta or know somebody who has and  debate in privat.

Forum silence is a pretty regular occurence surrounding "closed" beta's.

1 hour ago, Clousseau said:

I hadn't planned to, but if there was sufficient demand in the next week then I could add to the trophy order. Let the players decide.

+1 for those!

Is there a deadline for Food ordering that i missed?

My recent purchases had different bases too. Seems likely that the standard base has changed. 

I would kick pistoleros, austringer, Handler and diestro for two Monster Hunter, Nephilim and Abuela or Jury. Add Debt as you like, dir the Crew is pretty Card starved

Hoffman had ties with ramos, so i would think he will snatch m&su constructs.

Investigators are Guild officials, i wouldn't think Nelly will use them.  I can picture them with lucius through they are guardsmen but we got a lot of other guard and they are discribed as pretty corrupt if i remember correctly. 

Gonna eat my hat, if Judge & Jury hang with anyone else but justice.

Lucius has Guardsmen affiliations but i would bet those prefer Dashal now. 

Executioners gonna join Lady J or Lady Flame.

Chili man, it's gonna be good! You just have to believe.

Peace!

Deployment zones will change. It was stated at the release page. 

That was a typo. I meant a Fate Deck or dice as it doesn't matter what methode one uses to randomly generate scemes, none are easier than just drawing them from a sceme deck.

I won't discuss this further. Its clear we have different views and with current informations the whole thing is pretty pointless.

40 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

Why use dice for scheme generation when they aren't used elsewhere in the game? Everyone already has a Fate deck.

Yeah and everyone already has miniatures so why change anything? Or why pick the one most irrelevant word of my post and ignore the rest...

I don't think thats going somewere. 

You still can use a sceme deck to randomly generate from gg or book. Or dice. But shuffling a deck and drawing from it is easier then doing the same and afterwards referencing a table and searching the corresponding scemes. 

I would appreciate a random draw from sceme  Decks. Makes sceme Selektion a little bit more easier and more intuitiv. If you neither have a sceme deck (either purchased or self made), the App to random generate or an opponent who has one of those... well i don't know how you played before.

Probably the same people, who find the Cherub lacking. 

7 hours ago, SunTsu said:

Sure. But in that case it wouldn't be a very poor and underused "new concept" in the game, giving a value to masters and then use it just less than half times? Really, why calculate a cost for a piece, and then let it be hired for free without a very good reason? Finally, if a couple master+totem would cost (let's say) 25ss, saying "you can get M+T free and then spend 50ss" or "you can spend 75ss your crew, including M+T" it's essentially the same. With the big difference that in the first case you dropped a tool for balance the game, while in the second you have much more design space to work on.

Dual costs would be as underused as this. A rule isn't good or bad measured by the instances it's used. Given the goal of making Masters (roughly) even i would theorize, that even if you would have to pay for them, 1-3 points difference would make just as much difference as a balancing tool as the former Cache values - next to non. Again the Model with the best skill set for a given task (scemes) would be chosen.

In addition for most people free-Master is a working and trusted concept while hiring. That is not essential but bears a recognition value. 

7 hours ago, SunTsu said:

 

I don't understand... You basically are saying here the same that I said?

The points cost of a model, in theory, it's a representation of the weight in the game of that model. That's obviously theoric, particulary in a game like Malifaux where we have different "missions" with very different approaches and model's roles on the battlefield. But, in a theoric vacuum, and if priced correctly, I should expect that 4x3ss models would have the same impact in the game than 2x6ss or a single 12ss model. I think we can safely agree on this, isn't it?

No Theoretic Vacuums aren't used ingame and aren't usefull for discussion either because of that. Especially in Malifaux were scemes and strategies are everything one should expect, that sometimes 4x3ss Models outperform one single 12ss model and visa versa. Thats one of the main reasons i prefer the simplicity of a general tax over the hussle of implementing different hiring values. 

7 hours ago, SunTsu said:

Mmmm... exactly on what you disagree with me? You quoted a part where I argued that if additional masters would get just a little +1ss fee, it would result in a super convenient hire and could led to a game where 2-3-4 masters are required in order to be competitive,

On this assumption.  

8 points is one of the few things that actually benefits new players in my opinion. It reduces the text on each sceme and makes them easier to remember and comprehend. 

6 hours ago, SunTsu said:

Yes, it was 50%. Do you think it's few?

Sure. But if rules will say you get first master+totem for free, the points adjustment how much can help?

It influences hiring second masters.

6 hours ago, SunTsu said:

I never saw a player reason like you said. No one says "ok, that's just a 2% of my list". Basically, a player count what he heve to pay for what, and choose the most effective selection. Let's consider that the points of the models are effectively balanced. Let's say you have to buy 12ss in value of models, and you have two options: or 3x4ss models, or a single 12ss model. using a flat +1ss you would pay 15ss in the first case, only 13 in the second. Is it fair??? I don't think so.

If you read my following posts you would see i never argued that way. I think it is fair, after all 3 Models get you 3 times the AP. And if i need a big beefy model,  i hire it. If i need 3 small one's to sceme run, i hire them. If any of those are the best regarding points/performance ratio i happily pay the tax either way, because i need a specific task done.

6 hours ago, SunTsu said:

Let's move on including masters in our reasoning. I guess that, if you hire a second master, you have to aythe flat +1ss tax. This, on a model that should cost around 14ss, it's really a little fee...

Instead, if you would pay a different fee according to the model you want to hire, the things would be much more in line for all the models (cheap or expensive), including masters that should get the highest fee to prevent a kind of Masterfaux, if you understand what I mean... 😃

 

Agree to disagree. 

Buy. Just ordered Gencon Stuff and some more miniatures via LGS. M3E could be a year ahead and as long as i have fun painting and playing them in the meantime there is no money wasted.

1 hour ago, manul said:

This unobvious for me. Could you please explain how you compare them?

No, as i have zero ambitions to discuss the comparability given the current Informations at length. If you don't see obvious differences in possible performances, we seem to have different views anyway.

Interested!

Short summarys of Games with Lists and S&S Pool in Top of each is my favorite format. 

56 minutes ago, Razhem said:

But isn't all star syndrome even more boring? 

Not necessarily. Even if some "packages" like Nekima-Doppel-X or Iron Skeeter-Franc saw widespread use the rest of the crew usually changed. And it is quite natural for Tabletops to evolve some staples. There are always Models with a slightly better price/performance ratio and gamers find them given the time. If you reduce the pool of options (maybe because the non-thematic punishment becomes more severe, invalidating all non-thematics), there will be less competition for certain spots and you will see the same 8/10 people with master X every time (because why think about taking Teddy or Hooded Rider, if one is thematic the other automatically becomes invalid) I would prefer 2-3 Allstars over basically fixed Lists for every master. Of Course there is some hyperbole in there, but i hope it shows my point. 

56 minutes ago, Razhem said:

You never ever saw a torakage hired as a merc even if it's a solid pic for his base cost. Johan was omniprwsent till the cost increase and going a bit more to the past, everybody and their mother used Von Schill in first edition.

But thats because torakage suck And dont fill a reasonable task niche. Johann was usually one of the best ways for condition removal on top of beeing a good beater. If you only wanted a beater you wouldn't have choosen Johann, but usually an infaction model. Points were only second on the Wishlist. With his points increased he wouldn't comfortably fit within most established list and you get the desired effect. But change his Condition removal to Outcast (or keyword) only and you would have tackeled the reason behind his omnipresence.

56 minutes ago, Razhem said:

The higher costed the model, the more bang for your buck. I have never thought "adding that merc is a 2% of my list" I think of how much more I'm paying for that single model compared to what it's costed to deliver and I'm not alone in that frame of mind.

I would wager most people just look for the best/cheapest option for a given task. It doesn't Matter if the Tax on Nekima is only x% compared to y% on a smaller Modell. As long Nekima has the best price/performance ratio she will be taken.

56 minutes ago, Razhem said:

With themes and factions it will be a lot more obvious. Why not hire Lady J every crew assuming she is still the best beater in the game it's just one more stone than her intended cost. Or Archie who I expect will still be around 12 and only goes up to 13. A night terror has a much lower chance of getting hired out of them though.

If extra cost for out of theme is like stated at the moment, it will devolve in themed chaff and faction all stars for the expensive stuff except for when the all stars are alreaduy in theme.

You can't stop all star development. There will be a 'best for the Job' every time. No matter how fine the margin of pricing will become. The whole thing is a compromise between effort to "disguise the best" and divergence achieved. I don't think two point values will do enough improvement compared to the overall efford of implementing them.