Tors

Basse was confirmed to be dual faction

48 minutes ago, Trample said:

Incorporeal is just a cherry on top of an already pretty good dessert. It isn't the real challenge presented by the crew. The point was that there are many advantages the crew brings to the table including fast movement, armor, terrifying, good damage output, regeneration, armor ignoring attacks, and incorporeal. The real challenge presented by the crew is lucid dreams though. 

My opponents haven't maxed this out. I haven't seen them pull 16 cards out by the end of turn two, it's probably closer to half that. Since it's an immediate action Lucid Dream is performed in addition to whatever else my opponent is doing (schemes, killing, etc...). It isn't an either or (although the summoned models will often use an action to perform Lucid Dream since it is such an impactful ability). In M3e we're seeing a bit more of an attrition game versus a blitzing alpha-strike game so the accretive nature of Lucid Dream has a measurable impact in turn two or three but a profound impact in turns three and four. There are generally plenty of enemy interactions and reasonable resources devoted to scheming. Lucid Dream doesn't hinder that but rather makes it better. 

The last game I played my opponent didn't bring stitched. He didn't think they were necessary to realize the value of Lucid Dreams, and he was right. Over the course of the game he had to take a moderate or two, but his deck was fantastic. If your experience is accurate, and I'm sure it is, the impact of having 10-12 cards ranging between 1-6 removed from the game is nothing sort of awesome. It's great too with a crew with so much terrifying that will naturally deplete an opponents hand. So you're more likely to be winning any duel on the initial flip and therefore be in a position to cheat second and be more capable of winning a duel.

Not only does your card flip on the initial duel have an average of 1.5 more (using your example) but your control hand will average 1.5 more as well. That is really strong. 

My point was, that all those cherrys on top are listed pretty conviently, while in reality one doesn't has all of those, but rather has to chose. If you bring teddys and coppelius for those benefits you lose out quite a few points for lucid dreams. Without stiched you will usually have to remove quite a few more moderates or severes than two, if you want to use it enough for a meaningfull effect. 

But as mentioned before, cards will already be printed and some anecdotal evidence for or against a percieved unbalance wont change a thing at this point. Furthermore i doubt dreamer Crews will start dominating organised play like the nightmares they field, so the discussion isnt really worth the hassle. 

If insignificant Daydreams are the problematic Incorperal Models mentioned above i will rest my case. There aren't any madnesses in the mentioned list either, but of course you can try to summon one (but i think alps would be better summons).

You have removed 16 Cards At the end of t2. So starting to effect t3 maybe. As you utilize 3 stiched there are at least 3-6 (lets take 4 for example) of those cards, you want to be high to use with gamble, through that lets the stiched without any to defend with. Additional with 16times lucid dreaming odds are good you have to remove a moderate once or twice. So starting of t3 there are about 10-12 cards ranging between 1-6 removed (based in personal experience i would expect this number to be a bit below this). That ups the average of your flips by about 1.5 during t3 and by 2 starting second half t4. Assuming no enemy interaction and no ressources devided towars scemes and strategy with 42? points of your Crew.

1 hour ago, Trample said:

I've played several games against Dreamer recently and have been having a difficult time with them. Lucid Dreams has been the core focus of my opponent in each of those games. A couple of folks mentioned the need to strike quickly and take down some key pieces of the crew to not give him time to change the nature of his deck, which I agree is a good tactic. The challenge is that it isn't quite as easy as all that. The crew itself, even without Lucid Dreams, isn't bad. They have a lot of terrifying, which can burn your hand pretty rapidly. They have a decent amount of other defensive abilities in the crew like regeneration, incorporeal, and even a bit of armor. The crew also puts out great damage, can summon, and is really fast since they have some pushes, incorporeal, and some Mv 6 and 7 models. 

But those Terrifying, incorperal and regenerating aren't the lucid dreaming ones (except Chompy) and aren't summonable. So you have to buy them at the start, which again cuts your deck shaping. 

And none of those abilitys wins you any scemes either. As stiched seem to gamble anytime, summons plopp usually in b2b and can't interact the turn they are summoned. Deck shaping hardly take effect before t4. If you max out lucid dreaming you don't utilize all those great terrifiying/regenerating/incorperal stuff, thats no Big Deal, as you can use stiched to hit (at least once per turn), but then they can't accomplish scemes, the same way those 3 daydreams cant contribute. And so on. Again the Crew can't really do all the stuff at once.

1 hour ago, BimVooDoo said:

I understand your opinion of Lucid Dreams, but i just see that the dreamer is cheating in front of me and i can´t do nothing to stop him but killing his models, and that means that i can´t focus on doing the Schemes and Strategy while he can. So, for me, that means a game lost. 

That might be the problem. Fiendish Gamble doesn't work like cheating, you have to decide to use it before flipping any cards and it's limited to once per activation. In Addition if you remove all those bad cards you don't have the high ones for the stiched. You seem to argue from a perfect Position: Dreamer removed basically all weak cards from the deck, while maintaining a steady supplys of 13s for gambling sticheds which are always in range and easily resummon and unbury new ones while your crew doesnt succed in much and loses duels. But it doesn't play out this way. What die you play and what S&S? Instead of venting over enemy models, maybe we can show you some options

After several games with, sporting the dreamer i can't agree with the "Lucid Dreams is OP" crowd. At the start of the game it works like a charm and you can remove some weak cards. But after doing so a few times you start to flip moderate only more often -thus not trimming the deck effectivly nor having much value for stiched.

I agree stiched are the powerhorse of the crew, but don't seem worse then some other staples (Steam arachnoids for example). Through making the flip cheatable (and/or a Attacke action) shouldn't be problematic and less 'oppressive' for the weak of heart. If this is changed i would advice to make fiendish gamble work like cheating to

Without stiched together Lucid dreams becomes completly pointless. 

No, as said in the first thread, too.

2 hours ago, Adran said:

My mindset is that it matters on what game you are playing. You should adapt your crew to the table, strategy and scheme pool. 1 list to fit them all is not the best way to get a competitive list.

 

That didn't worked for m1e, for m2e and it wont either for m3e. Thats a nice lie you tell yourself and maybe it helps in casual games. But high end tournament play was always 1-3 semi fixed list with max 15pts rotating to Adapt certain conditions.

Kill candy, block los, use your own pushes or just take the 1 point dmg... i wouldn't even rate it "strong", just rather situational useful.

Not every thing needs a flip, not every combination needs to be changed. 

Thats why you fokus 

Maybe 'use this' could hand out suits ...

This isn't a problem, just look at Ironsides.

Simply use other means of attacking her, in the corresponding Arcanist Thread you will find a plenrora of advice

1 minute ago, thewrathchilde said:

So the loudest opponent is the self admitted refuser to play test...definitely reminds me of Molly in the closed beta. 

I playtested enough during the last few beta tests and closed beta, but i am tired of arguing against wall of texts and a sea of people who can't seem to grasp basics of concepts of competetive gaming. I am no native speaker, so typing in english is rather bothering, double so if you argue with said people. 

So all i can do is shake my head and throw some snarky comments in. As said earlier i don't have any hope that my effords would change anything- so why bother? I just hope the result somehow playable. I lived with Nico before errata, i am sure i will live with m3e toni, too. Just a matter of time till the first errata hits.

38 minutes ago, Primate said:

Yeah, I haven't really playtested with Ironsides, but I don't really see the issue with her being unkillable when she has all her support pieces in play. I mean if you're playing against Ironsides and you took Assasinate then really it's your own fault. The issue is if she's still really competent at killing and scheming whilst being impossible to shift.

"All support pieces" are 2 models and a Upgrade. Non of those are trivial to remove, and you have just everything. Movement of Friends and enemys, almost all relevant stats with 6 and easy achievable positives. And we aren't even talking about grid or h2w from fitzsimmons.

Thats no assassinate bullshit, thats 'here are 3 model, good Game' bullshit. You didn't need half a brain to operate Ironsides and Cpt near by each other and simmons trolling a few inches behind. Thats such trivial placement game as any 12year old GW Fanboy can manage. 

Most Factions can't field such bonkers shit within 50stones! There is exactly Zero downside to this. You didn't even need to get half decent target numbers or think about activation order. Just field, stay close with 2 Models and within a big aura of a third to be untouchable from 95% of your opponents. Great game!

Thats as DMG heavy as it gets in m3e and more then most crews...

If your Opponent is a bit cagey with Ironsides and cap placing, you didn't need to bother shooting at all. Its -3 dmg reduction... 

Pandoras defensive abilitys weren't half as good and were to much

Nah man, i won't waste more of my time with that. Just reading between work and appointments has to do it for me. But i don't expect a balanced outcome any better then the end of m2e anyways.

Yeah it's pretty easy to circumvent her. Just shoot her, after all, she is just def5+ with concealment and will reduce dmg by 1-3 before SS use. But thats assuming the Captain is nearby, he should go down quickly with def6+, bis 10life, reducing by one and using soulstones. Of course he needs a little helping Hand from fitzsimmons, but thats not hard to do. 

Or attack her wp. 6+ shouldn't be so hard to beat.

I am not sure what the arcanist community is smoking all day long. Or maybe there isn't even one half decent player here, but i can't get it in my mind why you wouldn't play Tony with medical training, captain, fitzsimmons and medical automaton.

You get an absolutly unkillable Master (14hp def5+ wp5+, reduce 2 against everything before Captains help or ss or Adrenalin).  And if you are in trouble you have the best healer Ingame nearby 

You have Board control with bring it and cyclone. One is fucking ca7 vs wp, the other is  basically mv14 duel.

Your offence is coverd with intimidation, again a very High TN for the Opponent (between this and cyclone there is also Hand destruction dir your opponent) and this nets Ironsides her second adrenalin she needs to neuter this pesky condition game. Tony and Cap just wear everything down

And the best: about 20 Stones left.  Take 2 Sceme models, bank the rest for Cache. You even have 7 activations.

Thats totally bonkers. I can give this Crew to a chimpanze and watch him score Top half of most Tournaments...

Easily the one of most (maybe the most) Borken crews remaining. 

I wish to clarify two very important facts, that drive me crazy:

1) the man is called Lucius (Mattheson)

2) he is in fact a man (or something similar), as is Agent 47 (at least the render looks more man then women)

It wasn't a proplem in any of my games,  not so much different than a defence trigger like squeel. As focused attacks becomes generally more prevalent, there isn't a specific counter build nessessary, just remembering it and plan accordingly. (Like with any defensive ability).

Furthernore i would state there are quite a few NVB models,  which become hardly playable without it or some similiar effect as reimbursememt. 

3 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

How about we tone down the hyperbolic statements? 2 control conditions getting toned down slightly doesn't mean control is now 100% gone. Half of the front of Pandora's card is control. Zoraida is 100% about control.

No! NPE! NPE!

There is no Control in m3e as it was a npe for many players

#2 the dark Crypt

The biggest part are sets from GWs 'Morrs Garden'. Besides 1164 Skulls (i counted them as i cursed while painting each one...) one of the nicest terrain sets they have done, in my opinion. The central piece was an old Kickstarter Building actually called 'Dark Crypt if i remember correctly. Its came with a pretty cool feature...

Fog!

The only small drawback is in the nature of the fog himself - it's a bit wet. So there tends to be a bit condensed moisture if it runs prolonged periods of time. But thats no big problem for the neoprene underground or painted plastic. And the whole fog thing is more for show than actual gameplay. I've made a short clip to present a better picture:

#1 the City map

It's mostly 4Grounds Stuff i weathered down, because i really fell in love with their fabled realms series. I forgot were i ordered the small market stand and the gallow. The 'Forest Islands' were custom printend to fit in the slots of the gaming mat (which is from kraken). The most ardenous task was to cut out the hundreds of small posters i scaled down from actual old circus posters.

Of course that's a bit much terrain to play with, but i like to have some options available.

One of my new year resolutions was to finish the various table projects i've accumulated and half assed over the last two years.

Yesterday i finished the second of the six table sets i own. For reasons of convenient storing and variable set up i prefer a gaming mat plus terrain pieces over a fixed construction. And as i tend more towards the painting, rather than building of things i like to buy existing MDF sets and paint them over.

I will post pictures of each table in an extra post