ElPuto

1 minute ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

When Beebe activates, he picks up two cards from discard pile (and you grab tomes).

BUT it doesn't work turn one if you want scrap early, so be mindful of that.

Ok but he draws low value cards, that he can use as 9s. So, with the upgrade, he can use Bleeps and Sweeps on 9 instead of 10, right?

But how is Cryptologist going to make him draw more Tomes?

55 minutes ago, Whut said:

If things go wrong and Beebe already activated, he can be RideWithMe'd to safety or near Scrap
If McCabe is dismounted, he can be shoved inside Calypso (maybe in assassinate)
Cryptologists can bonus action Beebe to draw 2 Tomes and if they get their trigger, create additional scrap (although, getting a condition on Beebe could be tough so this might only be for Turn 1).
I wouldn't worry about the 12 Cost AP, they have the AP of two 6 Cost models anyway and even in melee it gives out a bunch of Injured+1 with no resist

One more: Calypso can be healed by Rough Riders even if it can't be moved by them, and heals on Armor+2 are ~stupid~

These tricks seem so cool, but I can't understand how you get so many Tomes (trigger to create Scrap, trigger for extra dmg in close combat etc). Sorry for the stupid question but I'm back in the game after a while.

11 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

I love Nellie in her current state.  She's probably not our strongest, but she is very difficult to put down, and her keyword has one of our strongest models in phiona and one of the most interesting in the undercover reporter.

Dade can be very effective and i rarely run Nellie without her.

The minions are all ok.  If I'm bringing a undercover I'll almost always bring a lawyer or a false witness, to use his bonus to get some nice early card draw until he unburies.  Most people don't like the newsies, but I find that if they are working in nellie's bubble they can be a nasty little attack.

 

For ook all the all stars work well for Nellie.  The rider, grimwell, Stewie all are nice fits.  

The hardest thing for me is too often my plan depends on Nellie doing too much of the work. Don't like that.

I've also run a basse list with Nellie as a second, spamming traps to make tons of markers for Nellie to hurt people with.  A game I tried that is on my YouTube as a battle report (as well as a basic Nellie v. Lucas game actual play) I think.

The report is here-https://youtu.be/WBcRje-AJU4

 

It was a fun game.

All cool, I thought Phiona, Dade and the Undercover were all good models so nice to hear that. 

I don't get how you gonna draw cards with Reporter and False Witness, maybe I'm missing something. And about Newsies + Nellie's bubble, you mean giving enemies both Distracted and Stunned, right?

So, I imagine it's not possible to go for a full Journalist crew, 'cause, aside Phione, you're gonna miss some damage potential.

Thanks, I'm going to watch your game later!

After a long pause, I've come back to the game. I own a lot of Masters and Factions, but Guild has a special place in my heart and Nellie was one of my favourites (especially now that McCabe has left).

I remember playing her with Mercenary models, like Bishop and so on, but now? She reminds me of a weaker version of her old self, without access to beaters in her KW, so Versatile or OOK are the way to go.

So, what's her about? Just scheming and controlling? As new models (Newsies, False Witnesses, etc) add a lot in that sense.

Has anyone of you played her with great results?

Thanks in advance.


Puto
 

2 hours ago, Amayasu said:

Yup. Have home throw out a ton of burning, have the Emissary lower their Df as a result, and watch your ++ monkeys tear stuff apart.

He got cheaper in the errata too. Still not cheap, but, Asami can afford a few support models given how easy her summoning has become.

 

How is that easy? Mr Tannen involved?

6 minutes ago, whodares said:

 

Adran is correct. If you let the Wastrel take 2 walk actions, he gets defensive stance. This makes it easier to win the duel.

It also has the added benefit that you can get the max Charge range out of Yan Lo for the best value. Yan Lo wants to get up front and the Wastrel is just perfect for this.

The last benefit has to do with crew building. I tend to bring Toshiro with the upgrade in a Yan Lo crew. He's an Ancestor (benefit with the new 4 Chi healing) and his upgrade allows him to summon Ashigaru/Komainu. Since the Wastrel has the keyword "Living" on it, it drops a corpse marker when it dies.

The 4 Chi combo works like this:

1. Activate Goryo and use him to summon a seishin
2. Walk the Wastrel for defensive
3. Activate Yan Lo and discard a card for +1 Chi (total 1 Chi)
4. Seishin gets placed into base contact with Yan Lo and gets killed by a 1 AP attack for +1 Chi (total 2 Chi)
5. Yan Lo charges the Wastrel, hitting a severe on he first attack for +1 Chi (total 3 Chi)
6. Second attack of Yan Lo kills the Wastrel for +1 Chi (total 4 Chi)
7. BONUS: Toshiro turns the corpse marker from the Wastrel in a half health Ashigaru
8. BONUS: Charm Warder places the Disguised condition on Yan Lo

 

A Wastrel allows you to charge him and get the combo off for 4 Chi. I'm not familiar with the Pathfinder trap, but I thought it died in a single hit, which means charging it would deny you the 4th Chi in comparison to a Wastrel. I'm also not sure whether or not it would drop a scrap marker which Toshiro can use for a Komainu. Again, I don't own the Trap, so I'm just working on muscle memory here from when I was building Yan Lo lists.

Again, super helpful. Thank you so much man!

The Trap won't die in a single hit thanks to 3 Wd and Armor +2. Btw, it's not a Construct, so it won't leave any Scrap.

1 hour ago, whodares said:

Lategame Yan Lo is extremely powerful and can plow through crews on his own. The downside is that you actually have to reach lategame AND score VP at thesame time. I'm using a trick with the Wastrel and a Goryo to reach 4 Chi on Turn 1, to then reach 3 Chi on Turn 2 rather easily and even get an attack in on Turn 2. A Major downside is that this strategy requires a specific hand setup (4/6 cards in your hand need to match certain criteria) and it is extremely vulnerable to an Alpha Strike.

And why a Wastrel? Why not choosing another 5 Wd Minion?

1 hour ago, whodares said:

I'm not THAT experienced with Yan Lo, but played a couple of games with him so far after wave 5. How I play him might also differ from the norm, so please don't take it as gospel.

Yan lo has actually become a decent mid to lategame beater model, even moreso than he was before. His pattern is rather straightforward: gather Chi, get upgrades and demolish stuff starting from Turn 3 (in my case Turn 2). Lightning Dance allows you unprecedented movement shenannigins in the Thunders, which is also a big part of his identity.

Yan Lo is a lot about proper positioning of models and can severely abuse mispositioning of the enemy. The reason for this is, as you may have guessed, Lightning Dance. Starting off at a mere ca5, this placement action rapidly gains power as Yan gains Chi, rising up to an impressive ca8 on 3 Chi or more. Missing this means your opponent was either Zoraida or flipped a red joker. Any other excuse will not be tolerated

So I've mentioned Lightning Dance a couple of times already, but how are you supposed to use it? I prefer to run a triple threat setup, usually consisting of Yan Lo, Yasunori and another damaging model such as Emissary or the newly released Crime Bosses. Yasunori is usually in position thanks to his very good walk and charge range, but can he handled if he only has 1 small model per turn in range/engagement. Enter Lightning Dance! They try to tie up Yasunori, you just teleport models next to him and watch him go wild. This is the main use I get out of Lightning Dance and the use you'll probably be using the most.

The second way of using Lightning Dance would be to deny things. They accused your model? Dance the engager away and activate unengaged to just remove the condition. They are trying to score Leave Your Mark? Lightning Dance the model into other things and tie it up.

This is just the most basic ways to use Lightning Dance, but it should help you get started with the possibilities you have.

 

That still leaves his beater options.

Before wave 5, beater Yan Lo brought the Emissary, started with the Kharakka (or whatever it's spelled again) upgrade and rushed to get his 3 Chi Ascendant upgrade. This allowed him to get a better damage track and longer melee range, as his default attack only has 1", which works wonders with the 3 Chi upgrade. An 8" place attacking all models in range with  to attack and damage is a lot more scary with a better damage track and longer range. Usually this style paired with using the Wastrel trick to get 3 Chi Turn 1 and use the chi of next Turn to get a defensive upgrade. Since the soulstone upgrade uses a Ml attack it is not affected by Chi, so feel free to spend it all.

 

Then wave 5 happened, which changed his meta-game rather significantly. I'm venturing into theoryfaux a bit here, mixed with the experience I have from playing some games in Wave 5.

Wave 5 gave Yan Lo 3 new upgrades: 2 normal ones and a 4 Chi casting Ascendant upgrade. Both normal upgrades provided a monumental change for him as they eased his Chi gain AND allowed for a more flexible playstyle regarding upgrade in the way Shenlong can swap Styles.

First off is what I see as the best thing happening to Yan lo: the new Awakening upgrade (1 SS). It gives him Instinctual, which allows you to take 2 different 0 actions per turn with him. No longer do you have to choose between Ascendant upgrade OR spirit armor OR healing. You can now choose 2 of those, which means he actually has a 0 action he can use in the first few Turns. Added to that it allows Lightning Dance to be taken as a 0 action, which means a saved AP per Turn thanks to Instinctual. Since you were probably already using Lightning Dance once per Turn, this is great! To finish the upgrade, Lightning Dance gained a trigger that deals damage and slow if Yan Lo ends Lightning Dance in base contact with the target. This upgrade basicly gives Yan Lo an extra AP in the form of an Instictual Lightning Dance that can now end up dealing damage and giving slow. Not bad at all i'd say.

 

The second upgrade is called Follow Their Footsteps and is the gamechanger when it comes to Chi generation and Ascendant upgrade flexibility. It gives you 1 Chi whenever the opponent scores any amount of VP, which is great. Starting from Turn 2 you'll probably be getting a "free" Chi per Turn. the second effect allows you to discard an Ascendant upgrade to gain back the Chi spent in it and you MAY choose to pay the Chi price for a different Ascendant upgrade. Say you want that 2 Chi upgrade, but only have 1 Chi. Next turn you drop a card for +1 Chi and then drop the 1 Chi upgrade to get the 2 Chi upgrade. Or you need survivability, so you ditch the 3 or 4 Chi upgrade, get the 2 Chi upgrade and then use a 0 for the 1 Chi upgrade, suddenly becoming suprisingly difficult to take down thanks to Incorporeal and Impossible to Wound.

 

The last new upgrade is the new 4 Chi Ascendant upgrade called Blood Ascendant. This gives you casting expert, so probably another free Lightning Dance per Turn and a new 2" melee range Ca attack with a much better damage track than your default attack. This is also huge, as you can now get a Ca8 2" range attack that works together with your 3 Chi upgrade. I've managed to pull off the combo a couple of times in which I can hit 2-4 models with  to attack and damage on Ca8 and those attacks hurt like hell on a 3/4/5 damage track. It allows Yan Lo a way to get rid of chaff and plow through certain summoners with easy. Killing an enemy with the attack also lets every friendly Ancestor in play heals 1 damage which is just icing on the cake.

 

This all sounds great, why isn't everyone playing Yan Lo?

Lategame Yan Lo is extremely powerful and can plow through crews on his own. The downside is that you actually have to reach lategame AND score VP at thesame time. I'm using a trick with the Wastrel and a Goryo to reach 4 Chi on Turn 1, to then reach 3 Chi on Turn 2 rather easily and even get an attack in on Turn 2. A Major downside is that this strategy requires a specific hand setup (4/6 cards in your hand need to match certain criteria) and it is extremely vulnerable to an Alpha Strike.

Incorporeal is also becoming less and less of a reliable defensive mechanism due to the increase of "damage that cannot be reduced" and a rise in the amount of Ca actions. This leaves Yan Lo mostly with only Impossible to Wound, which is not enough for a master that wants to go in deep. His base stats of 5 def and wp also leave a lot to be desired as the average attack value has been steadily rising and almost all models have a stat 5 attack.

 

 

This is just a quick overview of Yan Lo and how he was impacted by Wave 5 without going into specifics about possible interactions with his own crew. There are different threads which have already discussed that. I hope this can get you started and you have fun playing Yan the Man!

Mate, thanks for your awesome tactica. It really helps me understand what I'm supposed to bring into the game with Yan Lo, and what to do with his Aps.
The only doubt I got, reading this and another thread, is how I build Chi using Wastrel (and you mentioned a Goryo too). It seems I need to go severe on damaging the Wastrel (+1 Chi), then killing him with another one (+1 Chi). Where does the third Chi point come from? You even talked about a 4th. This is leaving me a bit disoriented ahahah

Searched a bit, didn't found anything that could satisfy my curiosity.

So here I am, asking you: what's a typical Yan Lo build? What's his general plan? What is he supposed to do?

I see him (looking at cards) as a bruiser that can disrupt your opponent's plans. Am I wrong?

Help me understanding my new Master for a virtual hug.

3 hours ago, Davos said:

Midnight Stalker is an insane scheme runner. Starting on turn 2, (and potentially turn 1) he can be placing 2 scheme markers a turn  You need to make sure you have activation control so he doesn't get blown out - he IS very easy to drop won't his Polite & Well MAnnerd (i think thats what its called) drops.  In my most recent game, he scored 3 Covert Breakthrough points and 2 Surround Them all on his own.  At 8ss he's a little pricey, but I find him well worth it 

However, for your pool, taking him soley for Surround Them might be a little costly, but if you can keep the game close, its worth.  

I also agree with this, Hamlin is basically always good and A&D can do both Hold Them Up and part of, if not all, of Surround Them

On 14/2/2018 at 4:00 AM, beergod said:

I would go with hamlin  A&D can hold up multiple models, and with his new upgrade rats can get the scheme markers to the corners. 

 

Played this one:
Hamelin (5 SS Cache)
- Sewer King
- The Piper
- The Plague (wanted to try it)
The Stolen
Baby Kade
Bishop
- Oathkeeper
The Midnight Stalker
- The Bigger They Are
Crooligan
Crooligan
Obedient Wretch
Malifaux Rat

Won 10-4 vs Rasputina with some stuff, Snowstorm, 2x Acolytes, 2x Ice Dancers, Silent One.
Took Vendetta and Surround Them.
Crooligans and Obedient scored the latter.
Bishop did Vendetta, killing the Storm turn 2 (he killed an Acolyte too in turn 1), getting killed in response by the explosion. Totally worth his 10 points, even if I almost wasted the Fast.
Midnight Stalker did his thing, but I was often engaged with models that had already activated, and he couldn't get use of his Upgrade. Still a nuisance for my opponent tho.
Kade did almost nothing, except for killing one Dancer. Missed 2 Lures, got killed by 2 Raspy's attacks. Nothing to declare, but I can see his potential.
One Stolen sacrificed for 2 Rats, 3 Rats in play, Wretch shot one to create another one, Rat King. Usual rat-engine, but apart from that, couldn't do more 'cause blasts are a pain.
Plague is good, probably Pits would have been awesome with the Informant Marker but no worries at all, Hamelin is still powerful and able to play in every scenario (kind of).

3 hours ago, Jesy Blue said:

Has anyone thought about using Monks of Low River to remove Slow from summons?  It's vs Def and swings on a 7 so even a relent on a black joker would work.

With a bit of positioning, I've made more than once 2 Yokais lose Slow and Charge for 1 Ap. Gorgeous.

2 hours ago, newsun said:

This is terrible. This discussion is about summoners who are bringing extra activations and the ability to shrug off most assassination runs with innate abilities and 10t gets to use their less activations to maybe heal back up? It does illuminate further some issues the faction has though.

Now this is not saying it's all doom and gloom as Asami certainly has game with summons who charge the turn they arrive and her mobility is stellar and this can be done without resources, there is just some planning around flickering out which needs to be taken into account.

 

My point was to explain I don't see 10T Masters so weak in the resilience department.

Btw, you're right, Flicker is not that strong and the Emissary Conflux is crap (regarding the 0 Action). Probably then, our summoning engines are pretty meh.

5 hours ago, Freman said:

Hamelin has only three upgrade slots, and it seems that most of the time you'd prefer to be taking at least four. For me The Piper must be taken, Obey is vital to his crew. Now you have two slots. I think The Plague is also mandatory, Plague Pits might be a replacement, but it seems like your opponent can just chase the markers down and remove them with a cheap model or two, and blight doesn't really matter unless someone uses bleeding disease. So, what to take in slot three? For me it's invariably a toss up between Sewer King and Survivalist. Sewer King if I want to bring Lost models and/or sacrifice my own models, Survivalist to make a fairly tough master even tougher. If I had a fourth slot? But I don't.

Why do you consider The Plague mandatory? Btw, I've used Plague Pits with great results, just place them near important Strategy points or into bottlenecks, but ye, I can see your point.

Has any of you ever tried something different with Hamelin? I'm wondering if it's possible to use him as a melee model, or hire stuff never seen in his classic builds and make it effective.
Are Candy, Iggy or Kade useful for his plan?

Hey guys, after a long break (played a lot of 10T lately), I decided to give my Outcasts a try in GG18. 

Unfortunately, I don't own so much, so I haven't a real flexibility in builds.

The rolled Strategy and Schemes are these:

Ply For Information (we decided to play Extraction, just to change a bit)
Surround Them
Inescapable Trap
Public Demonstration
Hold Up Their Forces
Vendetta

Given I own Hamelin, Parker, Jack Daw and some random stuff, what are your advises about the game? Is Hamelin able to play into these Schemes? I know he's really powerful and can do almost everything, but don't know. 
By the way, I thought to go for Hold Up Their Forces and another one (Surround Them or Vendetta, probably), 'cause I think Montresor will shine into Hold Up. What can be an efficient runner? The Midnight Stalker?

Thanks in advance.

4 minutes ago, KingCrow said:

Toshiro + Mechanized Porkchop = 1 Komainu a round. Komainu's are great for tanky minions that can actually hit well.  Also, look at bringing the Obsidian Statue for easy Scrap Markers as well plus the ability to hit hard and hold an area.  And bring an Obsidian Oni for an auto-trigger on a non-randomizing cast to drop scrap markers. 

You need a 9+, but as I said, resources intensive plan.

3 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

 

I mean the model will die starting it's 2nd activation. So the opponent is choosing between 1 activation from it or spending resources to get rid of entropy

Again, Warders are not a bad choice. Probably still not the solution I needed. Maybe Toshiro with Mei? A bit of activations more, some tankiness, more jumps around. A lot of resources needed tho.

6 hours ago, Jesy Blue said:

Typically, I use Brewmaster, so the number of things in my Drinking Party bubble doesn't matter.

And forgot to ask, but what's your Brewie's idea of list into summoners? A typical one? Do you prefer debuffing your enemies with Swill or Poison them to death? Drinking Contest all night long or your beaters have to wash their hands in opponent's blood?

Just now, Jesy Blue said:

Then why isn't Asami as tanky?

Hard to Kill, 10 wounds, no armor, no ability to get armor, a 0 action heal that requires setup and resources and a moderate flip.  Sounds kind of pathetic when put it next to the previous short list of summoners abilities.  

Probably the only example I can think of, and in 10T you've many heals and buff to cover her. Misdirection, Disguised or Vanished, ending conditions with LRM. Not too shabby.

1 minute ago, santaclaws01 said:

4 damage from entropy can.

One puts up to Entropy +2, so I won't pretend to have 10 points in the same bubble to get Entropy +4. And again, I won't say they can max Entropy with their Casting, 'cause probably they're already dead at that point. 6 Wd with Df 5 is not going to tank anything, especially vs summoning lists where buffs are spread around.

3 hours ago, Jinn said:

Nicodem is 14wds, Impossible to Wound right? Not exactly squishy. Ramos still has Armour +2. Sandeep has 12wds, Impossible to Wound, arcane shield and probably Armour +1. Hamelin's heal on death isn't a trigger, it's an ability. Dreamer should go down a little easier without the Df trigger, but he can just not take his summoning upgrade and outactivate you with daydreams and be on 10wds Incorporeal. Summoners are just usually insanely tanky, even without triggers. Most of them have impossible to wound which means that Ohaguro Bettari is probably doing 2 or 3 damage per attack, which is not enough.

She could probably kill Kirai though. Colette also cries upon seeing Bettari.

Always wondered why summoners are so tanky tho. Probably because if they die, the list will fold easy.

54 minutes ago, DonCheadle said:

Isn't that what we got Charm Warders for these days? 

They're useful for sure, but they don't seem tanky enough to mess up with your opponents plan. Btw, 2 damages from Entropy don't kill anyone, even if many summons come into play damaged yet.

59 minutes ago, Jesy Blue said:

Ohagura Bettari vs summoners.

There is no out activation in TT, we are the quality over quantity faction.  You just have to learn how to kill faster and more efficiently.

... or take Asami and summon also, fight summon with summon and all that.

 

Typically, I use Brewmaster, so the number of things in my Drinking Party bubble doesn't matter.

Well, Ohaguro is extra mobile vs summoners, but doesn't fix the problem. The other suggestions are probably ok.

Last game against Ramos made me think on what are our choices against him, but even other Summoners in general. Kang can be good, as many summons are Construct or Undead, Taelor can be another choice (now with the price drop), but do we have an effective way to take care of markers (countering in this way Reva too) or multiple models like Arachnids at the same time?

What's your Strategy to avoid being out-activated?

Public Executions is for Misaki, totally. Build a classic list that protects her (Emissary, LRM, TCW), the rest will follow the schemes.
Ply is fine for Shen, in my opinion. Again, Emissary, usual support models, one or two beaters.
Misaki again for Ours, it's a killy strategy and where she shines. Take some expensive models, cheap runners to contend quarters, and the fulcrum of the list around her.
For Symbols you need runners and flexible strategy, so Shen is probably a better choice, 'cause he's mutable as the game goes, can scheme run by itself and support the crew to do a better job stopping your opponent's one.