goat90

Took Zipp against Misaki last night:

Zipp: Hovering Airship, Gift of Gab, Dreaded Pirate

Earl Burns

Francois LaCroix: Stilts, Dirty Cheater

Iron Skeeter: explosives

Iron Skeeter: Spot Light

Iron Skeeter: Treasure Map

4x Bayou Gremlins

This is my first time playing this list on the table, so still adjusting and trimming fat. 

Being able to ensure Franc gets fast and reckless to destroy pretty much any model on the board is always a plus. I played this into Symbols of Authority, being able to at the end of a turn run Zipp up to a objective turn into a bayou to threaten a 1st activation score next turn, and pop zipp up in a position to protect a key area was a lot of fun. Ill edit with my opps list and our schemes after work

Just now, WWHSD said:

I'm not a writer, but I think that the best way to do it is to just write the character like you would a straight character and slowly introduce details as they are appropriate to the story being told.

I'm of the opinion that for a small company like Wyrd, LGBT characters are a minefield. Unless they have a good story that they want to tell that needs a character to be something other than straight they run the risk of slighting the community that they are attempting to include. They're much better off with characters have ambiguous sexuality.    

yes and thats the problem, I agree with you, they write it out, if it develops naturally it can be a great little arch, I dont think in the fluff of Malifaux it really matters, with other games like steamrobots, or continuous galactic civil war, we dont see the cry for sexuality amongst the characters because it doesnt matter. People who cry for every little inclusion, are what causes the minefield to appear.

And yes ambiguous it best

2 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

It seems like Malifaux writers are in a rough position with writing a character as LGBT. The LGBT community has been struggling to ditch the image of being a group of hedonistic deviants. It would be hard to make a character LGBT without feeding into those old stereotypes since most of the cast of Malifaux is made up of sociopaths.

May not be a bad idea, would make for a hell of a story arch, "Im gay, Im angry, respkt me"

But seriously though, if its to be normalized, how do you normalize it without playing into the stereotypes? How do yo normalize it without making it seem like they just came from a gay pride parade in chicago? 

4 minutes ago, Astrella said:

No-one is saying it's the end of the world; but as you can see in this thread there's people who have an issue with lgbt characters even being included in the setting. And the historical accuracy argument is a bit of a faux one, considering the setting already diverts heavily in that regard; not to mention Malifaux itself is the outback, where different rules and morals from earth apply. E.g. the Guild seems to feature women in high military ranks quite often, contrary to contemporary Earth.

And "it's the internet" is a pretty weak argument and I don't see how ableism is related to memes. *shrug*

Women also owned businesses and land in real life back then, and it was against the social norm for a woman, but it was still rare. Not arguing the fact that Malifaux is different, this is like trying to argue the feasibility of space battle in star wars. We dont know in a fictional climate.

Now from a media source, why does it matter if a character is explicitly gay or not? Why can't you guys answer that? Homosexuality, even heterosexuality doesnt have a place in every piece of mass consumed media. Ive read plenty of books and played games, where I never thought, "Gee I wish I knew if this character was gay or straight" Just enjoy the damned fluff and game, assume whatever sexual orientation you want. This sexuality doesn't really play a huge roll in the over arching story or trying to tag sexuality to a characters identity, doesn't really work.

And yes the internet is a strong answer, if you get angry at me using Autistic the way I did, be careful about other words, and memes as well (see my profile pic as an example). If you're going to call out a word being used in a way you don't like, and even get angry, social interaction within the confines of the internet is no place for you my friend.

Just now, Pyrflamme said:

The ground of "would it be as acceptable in the Malifaux world as it is in ours" and "how can it be included without being overwhelming" has already been talked about extensively, so I didn't feel the need to touch on those.

And yeah, it's the internet, so what? I think it's a bad thing to use autism as a pejorative and I'll say so regardless how many "you mad bro"s thrown back at me.

Very true, you have the right to call me out on it as much as I have the right to use it as I see fit along with other words as well. lets just hope you dont enjoy any memes.

Sure cop out of the argument. I read it as well, and yours along with everyone else (even mine to some degree) is arguing from an assumption, which can be biased

Heres what I find intersting, the LGB community says that they are just as normal as a straight person, now I agree, so why is it that when ever a character is never explicitly stated homo or made as flaming as they can be, people go up in arms? Its either you're normal or not. They shouldn't have to wave a rainbow flag around, the writers should continue to write as they see fit, if a well developed LGB character comes from that great! If not, its not the end of the world

Actually no it didnt seem in my face, I didnt see it as impactful to the over all story, it changed a dynamic in the interaction with 2 characters. But it felt natural and a good progression. Not saying that if Francis, wanted to have a relationship with a guy it couldnt be natural, but again why does it matter? 

16 minutes ago, Pyrflamme said:

For what it's worth, I think we've already established that "historical accuracy" means very little when:

1) GLBT people were already at some level of the public consciousness in that time period, and people, as mentioned, used euphemisms (good friends, spinster aunts) to acknowledge them without necessarily outing them. We know there was some degree of bias extending to whisper campaigns and outright persecution, but there were certainly those who took the position of "not my business". 

2) The Malifaux world has already undergone considerable social upheaval, thanks to the opening of the Breach(es), which means history started diverging around, when, the 1700s? By the time of "modern day" Malifaux, history has been diverging for ~150-200 years, which is a hell of a long time in scientific, societal, whatnot change. The British Empire was already getting a jump on the U.S. in clamping down on the slave trade by ~60 years in our timeline. Even though I believe Ironsides' parents were slaves, with the U.S. not really becoming a thing that I know of, does that have consequences for the slave trade in the Malifaux timeline? Did it diminish, and if so did that mean things like women's suffrage and LGBT rights got a few decades' head start?

That's one of the reasons I'm very hype to get my hands on the The Other Side core book, because while we've gotten some initial peeks in the Malifaux fluff, and Fire In The Sky was a great look (control of the Western seaboard), it's going to be our first comprehensive look at the Malifaux world, Earth-side. I know it might be putting a bit much on the shoulders of the fluff writers for the book, but I'm still looking forward to whatever they choose to tell us

Overall, I would say it's more accurate to say the Malifaux world takes "historical cues" from our world. There's just enough from our actual past to elicit the "cool!" response, but enough has changed that "accuracy" isn't really a thing anymore.

I think it's a great reference! it's just that I don't think it's really that clear without having to, well, have the author come in and explain his intentions. Honestly, Tara and Karina are a good duo but I didn't take that away from them, and even the other posters seemed uncertain on what exactly was going on which gave rise to the question. A lot of us are taking the position that representation would benefit from a nice middle ground in which it's readily apparent without dominating the story, which could range from a main character or their interactions in a story.

Let's not do this.

You are arguing based off of an assumption, Malifaux could be different sure, but we dont know nor will ever know the social climate of a fictional world. Historical accuracy or not, taking the climate of the world at the time Malifaux takes place1800-1900, its a safe bet that any sort of divergence from social norms such has Homosexuality would still be seen with distain.

And really.... from my entire argument you pulled autistically? Come on bro/chick its the internet

1 hour ago, Astrella said:

So why do straight characters just get to be characters, but lgbt characters don't? And please, acknowledging that lgbt characters exist is hardly promotion. You are completely misrepresenting people's positions, and if I might add, sounding quite similar to bigots that are all "don't let kids know gay people exist cause they icky".

There being a couple LGBT characters in Malifaux has literally no bad effects on straight / cis people, and positive ones for lgbt people.

The inverse can be said, having a Straight couple of characters has no bad effects on LGBT. With what you're saying though. How does one add a LGBT character without it being explicitly in your face? Why cant a character be a character? A game doesn't have to include every bit of current social nuances, when given the time period its mirroring it would of been a taboo and still frowned on (though that in and of its self would make an interesting dynamic). Just let the damned characters develop, I for one dont tie any sort of sexuality to the character. Though Colette and Cassandras use of woman sexuality is pretty good and fits within the time period of what I would think a woman would have to do to succeed in a time period dominated by men 

Does it matter if there are LGBT characters in the story? Sexuality shouldn't be any sort of focal point in the story. If they want to throw an ambiguous nod towards it fine. I would much rather see and read about the characters struggles in the world around him/her, and his/her sexuality has nothing to do with how he deals with a hoard of gremlins autistically screeching across the swamp at them. Or the intricate political workings of word play as two character vie for the conversational high ground.

Take your favorite character, insert desired sexual orientation, continue reading, and enjoying the fluff and the game

1 hour ago, Four_N_Six said:

I would say yes, since it says "target."  I'd imagine if it went against normal rules, it would just say something like "take this action again against a model hit by the  effect."

I think it does says take this action again against a model hit by the pulse effect, at a -1 ca I dont have the card in front of me, but it does seem like it follows normal targeting rules as I thought, just needed to hear it from another source

With Wongs trigger on his Cast action, it says target another enemy model hit by the Pulse of this effect at a -1 ca. Im assuming this follows the regular LoS, cover engagement rules correct? I cant hit something out of my LoS, still has to be a legal target etc etc? 

1 hour ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Burt Jebsen doesn't come in the three starter boxes I was trying to work with  

hes worth it in addition to the starters, not too expensive, 12 USD states side

So the way I take list building in Malifaux is I typically build a "Crew Core" This is typically about 30-35 points of models that I take with a particular Master at all times. I try to make them as generalist as possible, to fit strats that I find that particular Master to be good at. The remaining points I use to try and set up my scheme running or denial. Typically I bring a set amount of models to hire from for those remaining 15-20 points, so I can focus on certain interactions. I dont have any experience with Zipp yet, and I dropped Ophelia once my LFGS got the Wong box in (which would be my recommendation to get as well)

But as Daniello said, Somer is a great over all jack of all trades. He summons, can dish out some good damage and makes our Bayou Gremlins that much better. His Do it like Dis ability is just amazing, especially considering taking skeeters with him. The way I play him is he summons bayous on turn 1 and 2. The new brood of green menace does what ever they need to do, mainly scheme running or playing the strat. So with Somer the idea I play him as is, for Strats like Guard the Stash, Interference etc I can flood these types of zones to ensure I can score. My other remaining points play towards the scheme or scheme denial. Some models I like with Somer:

bayou Gremlins: Somer Summons these guys, they have a push trigger, big damage (at the cost of their selves) can fuel Somer draw engine, and he can summon a metric ****ton of these dudes.

Pigapult+Stuffed Pigs: Great damage, can throw Bayous and company with a 24 inch place. Resilent, can mitigate cover. Stuffed pigs give the damage increase at the cost of SH

Burt+Dirty Cheater: 8 points of wont die. Use to carve out enemy scheme runners and deny markers

Slop Haulers: Heals Bayou Gremlins after summon or Drunk and Reckless. Can lower def 

Francisco: Awesome damage dealer, can mitigate cover and surviviable

Trixibelle: I use her to manipulate models, Pull a mismeasured friendly model into a zone to score. Move Scheme Markers around, Push enemy models out of Scoring range and Slow. 

Merris LaCroix: Sweet Scheme runner, can drop 3 scheme markers a turn if you wanted to, able to set up your turns for a decent amount of damage and can mitigate blast damage.

McTavish: In a scheme pool with a lot of markers, or with your Bayous dying he can be good with his push. I am not a huge fan of him in Somer, but works

Lightning bugs: Good healers, Somer can help with their damage output. Scheme runners and good utility models

Sparks: Only there for 4 AP Pigapult

Hopefully this helps. Schemes and stones also has a good buying on a budget guide that I used to start my collection of gremlins. I think its a bit dated, but helps to start out

So to keep this topic relevent, my eyes have been opened to the stupidity that is Glowy Burt, he has my heart right now. As a scheme runner that can heal the reckless damage, then alpha strike almost anything into submission. Ive also been playing the swine cursed as scheme runners to some degree of success. Not sure how else to run them in the lead up to the Alpha strike. Thoughts? 

I think he could be alright, taking a list with bayou gremlins, and Burt may not be bad. You get a dumbluck trigger on the bayou shooting to possibly kill himself, he drops a scrap instead of a corpse, fuel Sparks for turning burt into a Robotic Green Terminator with 4 AP. May not be the most effecient way to spend AP. Also he adds blast to moderate and severe, could be a thing

I feel the eratta put Lenny out of the running most of the time, he becomes a 9 point armor and rams on a stick. His throw is meh as for one more point you get the pigapult. He now is in contest with the likes of Bert, Franc, Trixie. 

18 hours ago, Sergrum said:

In general i feel like Wong can do a lot of schemes and strats well. Below is probably how i would personally run him now a days. 

Wong- Do Over, Ooo Glowy

2 Swine Crused

Burt- Dirty Cheater

Frank- Stiltz

3 Stuffed Piglets

This leaves 12 SS. Below are some of the things i'd use in those slots.

Trixie/DC/Stuffed/1SS

Taxi/DC/2 Stuffed

2 Lighting Bugs/Stuffed

 

Minus Frank and a stuffed pig, my core is almost the same thus far. After reading the swinecursed, I cant wait to finish painting my other one to get it in the field. So many wonky combos you can do in this list

I havent messed wiht Do over yet with Wong, mainly been liking Gremlins luck, double the chance of getting that Crow and randomizing to the target you want

4 hours ago, EpicWaffle said:

The strongest list I've being messing around recently with Wong was:

Wong + 5 Pool

 - Ooo Glowy (1)

 - Do Over (1)

Old Cranky (4)

McTavish (10)

Burt Jebsen (7)

 - Dirty Cheater (1)

Merris LaCroix (6)

Swine-Cursed (7)

Swine-Cursed (7)

Stuffed Piglet (2)

Stuffed Piglet (2)

 

 Burt or trixie can be substituted by a taxidermist, but this list is brutal. Not sudjested in a frindely game  also, cranky could go for 2 extra stuffeds, or you could decide to go with 3ss cache for an extra stuffed. Still needs to play around this, but I'll do it more the moment swine are released

 

Im digging this list and not far off from mine. I wish I could of had the stat cards for the Swine Cursed =(. Stuffed Pigs with Wong is the cutest thing Ive seen in a game in a long time

3 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

Models with the "Magical" condition gain the benefits. Swine Cursed specifically gain the Magical condition, presumably for that exact reason.

Good to know.... So I took Wong today for a game against Titania. I took Wong with Gremlins Luck, Cranky, Sammy, Merris, Bert with Cheater, McTavish (Glowy), trixie, and a lightning bug.

His was Titania, Baby Kade, Teddy with 1000 faces, barbosa with 1k faces, Mr Tannen, the Tooth, Primordial Magic.

Strat was Headhunter

Schemes: Claim Jump, Frame for Murder, Covert Breakthrough, Hidden Trap,Dig their graves.

Lost 6-8 sammy summoning a stuffed piglet, from their scheme markers was the cutest thing ever, then Wong blew it up. killed Kade after some hurt on him already, Tooth and got Titania to 2 health before retaliation. McTavish died in a glory that is that stupid baby. Was a good hard fought battle

58 minutes ago, Clement said:

Quick Question.  I'm not particularly fluent in this interaction, but wouldn't all three models (Your glowey target and both swine-cursed) get the regen and the plus damage? 

That is a good point, not 100% on that interaction, I dont have Ooo glowy in front of me, Ill get back to that when I can, unless someone else knows the answer

4 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

I prefer Burt tbh, because he essentially becomes Swift - you can choose the order of Start of Activation effects, so you can immediately heal the 1 damage you take from Reckless. Gracie is also a good target (although harder to utilise as well imo) because she can double tap the regeneration in order to cancel out the damage she takes from Rile Up.

Sammy is a nice option to give you a bit of control, and if you bring her you can have her hold Ooo Glowy due to Good Student, and give Wong his other Limited upgrade to get s on randomisation and his pulse on Lightning Jump. I don't think she's worth bringing just for that, but she's a fairly easy model to justify in general, so it's a nice bonus if you're bringing her anyway.

 

I mean tbh I think Wong runs a great "allstars" crew where you just pick your favourites of Burt, Gracie, McTavish, Sammy, Trixiebelle & Francois, then add Slop Haulers, Lightning Bugs and Bayou Gremlins to taste. It's hard to make a bad crew with that method.

Burt vs McTavish does come down to taste, and you're right on that. I prefer the raw damage that McT puts out among his other utility. But you said it, wong runs the allstars pretty well

The way I've been theory crafting him (1 game thus far more this weekend)

Wong w/ Ooo Glowy

Old Cranky (Soul Stone Regen and card cycle)

McTavish (Glowy target)

Burt w/ Dirty Cheater (Could be Secondary Glowy target)

Trixie

1-2 Lightning Bugs (More Scheme running and free ap if you blast on them)

leaves you 10-15 SS 

I like stuffed piglets and a taxidermist, you can really get them up the board (15 inches). Everyone keeps saying Swine Cursed, and I cant wait for them to comeout so I can test them. You can have effectively 3 Glowy Targets. 1 with regen and plus damage. Burt is a great Glowy target, but I feel McTavish is better because of him not being affected by Terrain when moving, and can get double positives on attack flips and at worst a straight flip on damage, at 14 inch range too, so he threatens more. Sammy and Merris are good options here, they both offer card cycle, Sammy has useful conditions with her attack, and Merris is a hella scheme runner, that can help with blast damage. Other self suficient models would work here, Rooster Riders, Franc etc.

I'm also interested in how others run wong