Fixxer

I think both Porkchop and Gracie are excellent versatile options.

Porkchop is great in zipps crew due to his ability to drop scraps after his activation and give  to attack actions within 3". This means chop can engage an enemy and have Mancha or a Wraslter come in after and use that scrap for +1 injured and possible take a damage for that . Reckless is really useful in setting that up and getting the right angle, with Mv6 its actually pretty easy to get him where he needs to be.  7ss is a bargain for him, IMO.

Gracie is better with Ophelia due to "ride with me". Giving a ride to Ophelia or Francois can be enough Mv to really cause problems early game. she is a good body guard for each of those models as well. If they go in and Gracie lives, she has the potential to also go Reckless and do some serious damage. Armor +2 is helpful in a crew that doesnt have any too. Mv4 and engage of 0" are rough, but her  actions make up for that. 

Its really tough for me to just post general purpose lists or rank masters without knowing what the S&S are. I think the encounter determines the power level of each master in all honesty and with the strategies being the least variable and highest scoring, I look at those to determine how best to build a crew or which master is best in theoryfaux. 

For me Zoraida is a master that can really do it all. She happens to be lucky in that respect, but most support/control masters tend to be harder to play but offer strengths into each strategy. Whereas other masters are obviously good into one strategy and obviously bad in another.. .not saying impossible but definitely a handicap. I generally think summoners have it rough in reckoning. Not saying it cant be done, but usually results in more models that are easier to kill. 

Into a plant explosives or corrupted idols. *Scheme dependent

 Zoraida+ancient pact

Bad Juju +inhuman reflexes

Doppelganger

Adze

x2 Silurid 

will o wisp 

7 models +1 w/voodoo summon. 

6ss Cache

*some people dont like the Adze. I think its ridiculous with the Voodoo doll. First, put burning on the doll when its tethered, then attack or lure it for even more conditions. I think being able to get poison , burning, and a couple pips of damage on a model is big. Also, poison is built in on the attack and good triggers, gives Doppelganger another worthwhile attack to copy if need be. Higher value lure is better, plus he is super fast , can heal, and can be obeyed into excellent position. 

I just think this version has mobility with a nice bodyguard for mama Z in Juju. Inhuman reflexes is really strong on him and adds to his survivability. 

Into Reckoning or Turf war *Scheme dependent

Zoraida + ancient pact

Bad Juju+ Inhuman reflexes

Mctavish

Grootslang

Serena Bowman

Waldgeist

6ss cache

6 models +1 w/voodoo summon.

This list is small, elite, heals a bit, and can reposition fairly well. 2 models with demise eternal and a tough minion for good measure in the Waldgeist. Could easily be swapped for something else, but I figure the terrain creation and relative toughness is nice in killy strats. Grootslang, for me has been a strong model. They have a 2" engage with theyre tongue attack giving built in slow. This coupled with their Penetrating stench ability can drop models to only having 1 action during their activation or lose a card. If the Grootslang is positioned outside of 1" (most models engagement) they cant even attack him. IME this combo has been stifling for my opponents AND he was recently given 2 extra  health bringing him from 8-10. This is bonkers good for 8ss and has the potential of shutting down multiple models if positioned correctly. 

All of these models are assembled and primed black. This is high quality GW primer. Smooth as silk 

GUILD:
Keyword: Journalist
Nellie 
Printing Press 
Phiona Gage 
Alison Dade 
x3 Reporters 
 

1 hour ago, HipsterWhale said:

They have a + baked into their attack. And they bonus action focus. 

I understand this. 

But their gun is still only a stat 5. With cover benefiting a +1 Df and a to damage, you have a good chance of winning that duel or only taking 2 damage due to the damage being on a ... even with the focus as they'd cancel. 

If they got you out of cover, you're screwed, no question...

I think the models other folks have suggested with  triggers to ignore armor are all great options if you feel the need to have to kill the samurai. Thats not always necessary to win though. 

My point is to use mobility, which bayou have plenty of, and cover which should be plentiful on every table. Aside from that you're just playing Malifaux and every game is extremely unique. 

Well, I do believe that Cover will be of the upmost importance when facing Samurai. Cover adds +1 Df and a flip to damage. This essentially takes their shooting attack down to a 4 stat. If they focused they'll be breaking even with the  it adds to the damage flip. A shot 4 even with  to attack isnt very good. Luckily theyre min 2 damage and dont have a repeat trigger anymore. In Close combat their ignoring armor isnt as effective against the faction, but is still a threat at stat 6 with good triggers.

I mean, they're 9ss, they should be good. I think they're definitely something the Bayou faction can handle, just make sure you use the terrain on the board to your fullest advantage. 

I would look into bogging them down with Bayou gremlins, or forcing them to have to walk into shooting lanes. Most of the bayou models being Sz1 can help hide them too. I dont think going into the teeth of 2 of them is our best option as a faction, perhaps trying to ignore them and have them waste shots on models in cover is best. 

On 3/24/2019 at 1:20 PM, Paddywhack said:

Sadly have to agree. Don't think we'll see Morty much on the table at all. Maybe if Nicodem ever comes back for real, hell get a revamp too.

I dont know. In my last tournament my opponent used Morty to pretty much secure the end game Dig their graves in a Transmortis crew. Its dictated early but very difficult to stop. His chatty bubble and decent fighting ability means he can protect the end scheme pretty well. Let the rest of the crew work out the 1st score on dig and hope to hold off the opponent for the 2nd in the end. Frankly with how difficult it can be to score END game schemes, I thought this was a strong hire given the circumstances. 

2 hours ago, soda_popinski said:

How would you use Sammy LaCroix in a Kin crew? Seems like now her card mainly interacts with the Wizz-Bang keyword:

She can draw a card and gain fast and a glowy token from Ophelia hitting her with an Arsenal upgrade discard. Or you can have a Young Lacroix just shoot her.

She injures enemies from 10" range making it easier for the kin to kill them. She converts enemy scheme markers into stuffed piglets for denial. 

She works really well with the kin  in my experience and 7ss isnt too bad for her kit. 

Is nobody using his hunting screen for concealment? Pretty solid there Imo.... he gets a free 3” move at the start of his activation too. Typically rolls with a master that will obey him to get more damage out. I think he’s fragile but his mobility and versatility in terms of a solid ranged attack and melee totally make up for that. Don’t throw him into enemies like you do with Juju or other tough henchmen. McTavish should be sitting back making enemies come to him. 

They are Mv 6 and have stealth. Pretty good at running on an edge and making models go to them if they want to stop them. The 1" pushes help, their squeal trigger can be really strong. But I also tend to think the Bayou faction attempts to overwhelm with scheming as their factional identity.   If a crew tends to bring a lot of shooting, or ranged attacks the Moonshniobi will be a better choice than Akaname or Gamin due to their higher movement and stealth. Not saying those models dont have a role running schemes, its just different situationally. 

 The Bayou faction have many 4-6ss models that are different styles of scheme runner. Fast models with stealth and pushes can do a pretty good job despite not having flight or the ability to drop markers as result of an action besides interact.  That's just my opinion. 

3 hours ago, yool1981 said:

I don’t get what the 3 spikes on her back are supposed to be though.

I am also not convinced about the practicality of her weapon (the pick axe part seems too much).

Interesting reservations.

Shes a ninja assassin LOL nuff said. 

I think the model looks awesome. 

58 minutes ago, ShinChan said:

In this I agree with you and disagree with @Fixxer. If they're supposed to be scheme runners, why all their abilities are focused on being in the Som'er bubble? Actually, they only work well if they're close to the other gremlins, so scheme runners is not his job. A God Ol' Boy would do it much more better, or just hire Merris out of keyword. They don't have anything that make them good scheme runners.

He can easily be killed from distance without response, and their only "attack", Pluck the Strings, requires them to be in the middle of the battle. So no, they're not scheme runners, they're support model with a low impact due to they are really situational (rebel yell being the best ability), no tankyness, no damage. I would only hire them because I can not hire more than 3 Good Ol' Boys.

What happens when deliver a message is in the pool? Dig? Harness the ley line? Search the ruins?

sure their in the bubble supporting the crew but their AP is best spent on walking and dropping necessary scheme markers where you need them. Not every scheme runner is designed to play on the edge or infiltrate the back field. Some rely on their abilities and proximity and utilize corner case actions that can be helpful in certain situations. OTher than that, their greatest use of actions is walking and dropping necessary schemes where you can score. This is perfectly acceptable in a bubble style crew where most models will be looking to shoot or disrupt.

In my experience the Banjonista is typically ignored by my opponents for more damage threatening models allowing them to scheme.  

43 minutes ago, Boomstick said:

Moon Shinobi - The change to Drunken Kung Fu has definitely made some ripples outside of Shenlong. It sounds like he was abusing the to Damage, and the Shinobis suffered for it. I'd argue this could be fixed by giving Shen the Fermented Monk ability of To Drunk To Care instead and giving the Shinobis back old Drunken Kung Fu, but I'm not familiar enough with Shen to know if that breaks anything.

  These guys arent beaters and the Tri Chi crew puts out enough damage as a whole. I dont think the + to damage is fully necessary and borders on NPE when you combine it with the amount of poison damage available to the crew. Too much damage.

45 minutes ago, Boomstick said:

Banjonistas - I've faced them once and was unimpressed, and every time I read them all I think is "super generic, to the point of boring". What's everyone else think? Could they get some form of their M2E ranged attack back? I don't think Gremlins have much in the way of ignoring Armor at the moment...

They're scheme runners, Foggy Bayou Hoedown and and Hootenanny are the main reasons to bring these guys. The condition removal is a plus but really, extra movement in a shooting crew and shielded +2 for dropping crappy cards is pretty clutch IMO. Being so cheap too, Im not too concerned with these guys, they have a role. 

46 minutes ago, Boomstick said:

Taxidermists - seem expensive, would be more appealing if their price didn't include a stuffed piglet, and instead they placed a corpse in their deployment zone?

A corpse so they can use a card to summon a model they get for free?   I think a model that summons stuffed or flying pigs with 2 different actions is amazing. First, the trigger is built in on its attack action, and a 6 of any suit to summon is really strong too. Bayou crews will create corpse markers for this guy to utilize, most definitely. In the right situation with a 4 in hand these guys can Remote Detonator and eat your opponents hand with TN checks or a lot of damage/injured..plus they get to draw a card after doing it. I havent played with these guys but just reading their card has me excited to try them out. 

53 minutes ago, Boomstick said:

Burt - seems pretty lackluster when I've played him. He needs to take friendly damage to get glowy tokens to help with his crit strike (or other things), but is also hurting himself for reckless. Seems like his cost secretly includes a healer to follow him around for him to do much worth an 8ss cost.

I agree... He's definitely not what he used to be. I also have had a weird time playing him this edition. He is a scheme runner now, it feels like. I dont like it. I miss the action hero that killed models way bigger and scarier than him. As an 8ss scheme runner he's not living up to the legend at all. 

55 minutes ago, Boomstick said:

Bayou Gators - Melee models that have no helpful abilities to close the distance or survive longer before being shot to death. From the Shadows or Stealth would help a lot.

I absolutely agree here too. I think From the Shadows would be nice. They could force the issue and make models come to them. Be a forward positioned obey target to go disrupt or attack vulnerable models that overextend. At this point, I dont even consider hiring them. I think From the Shadows would see them as a great pick for Zoraida or Mah. 

56 minutes ago, Boomstick said:

Sparks LeBlanc - wants to be near the enemy to work his painful debuff/hazardous magic, which puts a giant target on him, but has minimal survivability.

I think this dude is pretty cool against construct heavy crews and I've designed a few Mah crews with him that are all construct minus Sparks, Mah, and lass. Seems to be a pretty nasty combination on the table. Test Subjects really make Sparks work and I dont think people have been playing those models at all... I tend to like what he brings to the faction as a whole in regards to fighting against Constructs or armor heavy crews. He's a counter pick more than anything which is okay. 

3 hours ago, Davie said:

I am still so mad about the nerf on drunken kung fu. I don't know what to say. The ability might not exist at all right now.

I know, you can still make use of it by distracting your moon shinobi but it's such a Setup! if they had a Mask inprinted on Have a Drink it might by mildly reliable

 

Its still an answer to manipulative and serene countenance though, and they arent really beaters anyway. They are more scheme runners and utility models. Dont get me wrong, its annoying to lose the + to damage, but at the same time it can confuse their role. 2/3/4 isnt so bad, especially with it being a stat 6 and their triggers are pretty good. I think have a drink being a 2" is pretty strong too in terms of interaction denial. 

At first I was extremely disappointed with the change but the more I see Brewmaster on the table (2 of my buddies play him pretty consistently) there is already a ton of damage output in the crew. Brewie could be the best beater master in the faction coupled with ticking people with poison consistently. Damage is not a problem in this crew, so perhaps it is a fair change in the long run and in terms of definitive roles for models. 

On 2/14/2019 at 4:34 AM, HipsterWhale said:

Barmution we're gonna get zoraida to where she needs to be if it kills us 😂

 

Whats do you mean by this? Zoraida bad? Too good? 

1 hour ago, Da Git said:

That's really sad actually. Having it as a may gave it a lot of flexibility and I'd rather it be a weaker "may" (either Shockwave 1, or Damage1, Burning 1) than be a stronger "must" and have to rely on scheme markers. Especially as there aren't so many ways to place markers in both Pandora's & Kaeris' crews (other than Interact).

You mainly use it to destroy enemy scheme markers. He's a denial piece. Its really not that bad considering he's 6ss and has reckless and its how he's always been since CB.

This is a typo situation, it was never a change that was intentional. 

58 minutes ago, Boomstick said:

Zoraida definitely feels like the Voodoo doll is tacked on as an after thought. It's nice that the doll just picks a target to attach it's upgrade to, but the trade-off really seems to he that it doesn't do much other than give the opponent a pass token.

A specific model Zoraida has access to that needs some help is the Grootslang. I know it's NB, but it should be seen in her crews, and for 8ss it doesn't do much but look impressive on the table.

This model is far from useless, wow. The voodoo doll is for putting injured on a model and either obeying that enemy or one of your other models to capitalize on the (-)s. The doll works, 12" range is huge actually. I had a voodoo doll kill an injured necropunk the other day with frantic flailing. He came in and delivered a message to Zoraida and got beat down by a doll. Frantic flailing has a built in trigger, if they're hitting the hexed model, that should have injured, it can do surprising amounts of damage.  LOL... its really not a bad totem at all.  

My last game I brought Widow Weaver as a +1 to summon Stitched off of the dead dolls scrap, worked really well.

The Grootslang is amazing, straight up. With an obey master, this guy can really play the denial game. Or bluff with the placement of his lairs.. His tongue gives auto slow at 2" range which can be a real bitch for your opponent when they have to discard a card or gain stunned in addition. The mobility and ability to kill or slow models down in key. I think this is a very strong model in a crew with obeys. IMO.

30 minutes ago, Rift said:

and the lucid dreams are still an ability that can bite you in the behind....which is silly

You must've missed Stitched Togethers new rule then. 

53 minutes ago, Rift said:

a little disappointing, they had a chance to fix and make him better....choose not too.

 

RIP dreamer

 I don't think Dreamer needed fixing besides changing Twist Reality back to ignoring friendly fire which they did. He's in a great place IMO. 

Just now, matt said:

Nope, the changelog is just wrong

You are awesome sir, thank you for clarifying. I thought the range might be reduced as a trusty rifle certainly sounds better than a broken down one!

Well Bushwhackers got Stealth, they're even better. Wow. 

The rooster has a "trusty rifle" now. Still 14" range, one trigger and doesnt ignore cover. Confused because in the change log they call it a "broken down rifle" Im assuming the attack action will change again... Can we get clarification? 

12 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

I'll try not to anyway. I didn't have any good way to get to him fast enough and the effigy was still able to influence the early game with condition removal from range. But yes, I will have to find some way to get to him sooner. In Standard or Corner deployment, that will be very hard for some crews though. Wedge or Flank gives you a better chance.  

You still have to play Malifaux, absolutely.

But a lot of knowledge can be gained from how an opponent reacts to aggression towards an effigy early game. Bringing a model and some pushes/fast to specifically go kill the effigy is absolutely doable most of the time. 

1 hour ago, JiimK said:

I honestly dunno how you can ever justify bushwacker over rooster with current ruleset. Mah can give focuses to roosters so they shoot at least equally hard witout being sitting ducks after that first shot. Roosters activating last get usually at least 2 shots. 

I think I've justified them enough over a few threads. You are absolutely allowed to disagree and hire roosters every game regardless of S&S. I am trying to explain my perspective on their uses which arent simply about getting shots off.  I think both models are excellent and useful. I am mainly responding to people that want to see these models changed. Trying my best to explain where I see play with them, obviously everyone is not going to agree but its worth the effort!  

1 hour ago, JiimK said:

And yes after that shot in which you assumably spent 2 high cards in order to get 5 damage. Wacker is completely alone in 14" of an enemy and already activated. Meaning its a free cherry to pick for enemy. If not this turn, next for sure. No trap is gonna realistically do anything for him.

Well, if the shot does 5 or 6 (with crit strike)  damage and puts them at 1 health the trap will kill them. Bushwhackers should be positioned directly behind traps *most of the time. 

Top decking happens and situationally 5-6 damage is worth 2 high cards out of hand.

Well, you know the effigy has the upgrade during hiring. You know vendetta is in the pool. The information is right there in front of you before you even start moving models around on the table.

I agree that its a wonderfully thematic upgrade and interaction in the game. I think Vendetta will be chosen this way often, but in time, we will all find ways to counter that. If a player is going to stifle their ability to score VP to protect their Effigy so it can replace, they might've wasted enough actions to end up losing. Plus if you kill that effigy because its practically telegraphed, you just denied 2 VP, just like that. 

I think its an advantage as much as its a trap. I think the problem in this game was the unfamiliarity with the situation. Next time you wont let that happen. 

18 minutes ago, HipsterWhale said:

 I'll try a bushwacker heavy list tonight with roosters and drop the brin etc

 

So with 3 roosters and 3 bushwackers what do you recommend as well?

Well thats 39 stones, dont have much else to spend at that point. I feel like that might be overkill though, 3 of each. 

I'd need to know the schemes and strategies to make that determination. But hypothetically if we are seeing a pool like,

Plant explosives/corrupted idols

Flank/corner

Outflank and or Power ritual or Search the Ruins or Harness the ley line. 

Has the opponent declared a master that is construct/scrap marker/armor heavy? 

If not necessarily, Id go with: 

Mah+ Inferiority complex 6ss cache

Little Lass

Big Brain Brin

Gracie

x2 Roosters

x2 Bushwhackers 

If they are Construct/armor/scrap heavy:

Mah   5ss cache

Little Lass

BBB

Sparks

MechChop

Test subject

SS Miner

x2 Bushwhacker

In both cases the Bushwhackers are in position to be in the corners at the start of the game. Their Traps should be positioned to support them but not too close to get in the way of the one's they'll be attempting to place with their bonus actions. At that point drop schemes, bombs, traps, take a few pop shots, and just be there to score VP. If anything goes for them try to  cut them off with your other models to either slow them down or kill them. You should have plenty of Mv with the pushes, reactivates, un-buries, etc..

Then you just gotta play Malifaux at that point... But starting with that kind of plan has your opponent immediately reacting to you, which is how you want to play this game. 

37 minutes ago, HipsterWhale said:

While I agree those are all valid strategies I think the opportunity cost of bushwackers over roosters is way too high.

 

That's why I would focus them on from the shadows and cut off everything else they don't need 

But they do need pit traps and a gun that punishes with crit strike and a 2/3/5 damage spread.

Being able to deploy up on turn one allows them to spend their first action focusing and hopefully getting a cheatable damage flip on their first shot. A rooster has to take a wound and walk 3x to get to the same position, Then, at that point they're just as fragile as the cheaper Bushwhacker who deployed in position and is already threatening a focused 2/3/5 shot (with crit strike). Plus they get a free trap to put as a buffer between them and a melee model that would threaten them, and additional ones as needed. They work to fortify a position on the table while the rooster is able to act as a missile to disrupt or all out kill models threatening the Bushwhackers position. They work well with each other, IMO. 

How are Bushwhackers not one of the best models in a corner/flank with outflank or power ritual in the pool.? Seriously, Im at a loss about this... How is this not a tailor made situation to hire at least 2 bushwhackers? 

You prefer a more direct style of play and bring x3 roosters to every game with Mah, thats great. I approach things a bit differently with efficiency and tactical combinations in mind. You prefer to show your hand and hope for aggression to win, its obvious. I play a style of game that is more about controlling my opponents actions through forcing them to deny my VP. Its not all out murder all the time.