Lord J

Lady J  vs Lynch 1.31

 

Battle Report Form

Encounter Information

 

What Version of the Playtest Documents were you using?

1.31

Strategy

Turf War, Corner Deployment

Scheme List

Dig their Graves

Search Ruins

Claim Jump

Outflank

Vendetta

Time & Rounds Played

3 hours, 5 turns

Final Score

Lady J 5 – Lynch 4

 

Player 1

 

Forum Name

Lord J

Leader

Lady J

Crew List

Lady J, Scales of Justice, The Judge, Death Marshall Recruiter, Exorcist, Death Marshall, Death Marshall, Brutal Emissary. Cache 6

Strategy VP Scored

 

2 VP on turn 2 & 4

Scheme 1 & VP Scored

Outflank, 1 VP on turn 3 + 1 VP end game

Scheme 2 & VP Scored

Vendetta (Exorcist on  Illuminated without Upgrade), 1 VP on turn 3

 

If you could play this same Encounter again, what would you do differently?

The Judge didn’t make anything remarkable in this Encounter, maybe change him for another Recruiter and reinforce some model with an Upgrade.

 

MVP model (and Why?)

Lady J, one more time her mobility and a good hand of cards allow me to secure and control one side of the table.

 

Player 2

 

Forum Name

Non-forum user

Leader

Lynchl

Crew List

Lynch, Mr. Graves, Hungering Darkness, Illuminated, Illuminated with Trained Ninja, Beckoner,  Beckoner, Katanaka Sniper with Trained Ninja. Cache 6

Strategy VP Scored

1 VP on turn 2

Scheme 1 & VP Scored

Vendetta (Katanaka Sniper on Death Marshal Recruiter) 1VP on turn 2 + end game

 

Scheme 2 & VP Scored

Search the Ruins  1 VP on turn 5

 

If you could play this same Encounter again, what would you do differently?

Play a bit less defensively and go more aggressively for the Strategy Markers.

 

MVP model (and Why?)

Mr. Graves, his overall kit helped a lot the rest of the crew (Cover bubble, friendly pushes, melee attacks, etc.).

 

Additional Feedback?

Turf War was a well balanced Stategy. The different ways to change the Strategy Markers suggested different approaches for this encounter. We love how progressively harder is to score on Strategies, so no high scores can be made in M3E.

It seems to be a remarkable contrast with Schemes: “Outflank” and “Search the Ruins” seems more fully doable than “Dig their Graves” or “Claim Jump”. Not sure if some are too easy or the others too difficult.

Lynch’s player was a bit worried about 3 of my models could Shrug Off conditions, and Lady J had her condition removal Area, due to all his crew working around Brilliance condition, so it was a bit hard matchup for him. The Rig the Deck was a bit overwhelming for him at the beginning, checking top cards of the deck and planning actions according what he sees, but with a little more of practice it can be a powerful mechanic.

Lady J’s Leap is really powerful, but the suit(s) required is a fair price, so a mid-high Cache is a must.  I only could use once the feared Quick Reflexes trigger, paying a Soulstone and with really good cards to cheat on the attacks, killing Hungering and a Beckoner in 1 Activation. I still think Closed Beta’s Lady J payed a high price to keep this potentially chance to probably deal a lot of hits somewhere sometimes. Brutal Emissary tanked extremely well, and with his Bury attack and the pushing triggers of his greatsword attack, keeping controlled most of the opponent’s melee models. I couldn’t find any good task for the Judge, some attacks here and there but nothing critical. Exorcist focused in hunting the Illuminated for Scheme, but was murdered near the end. I had to hold back with Recruiter, seeing was the target for my opponent’s Vendetta. Death Marshals were my Scheme Runners/Outflank Runners. Scales of Justice went behind the front line, interacting with the Strategy Markers.

 

Lady J  vs Von Schill 1.31

 

 

 

Battle Report Form

 

Encounter Information

 

 

 

What Version of the Playtest Documents were you using?

 

1.31

Strategy

 

Cursed Idol, Flank Deployment

Scheme List

 

Dig their Graves

Take prisoners

Power Ritual

Outflank

Vendetta

Time & Rounds Played

 

3 hours, 3 turns

Final Score

 

Lady J 4 – Von Schill 2

 

 

Player 1

 

 

 

Forum Name

 

Lord J

Leader

 

Lady J

Crew List

 

Lady J, Scales of Justice, The Judge, Death Marshall Recruiter, Exorcist, Death Marshall, Death Marshall, Brutal Emissary. Cache 6

Strategy VP Scored

 

 

 

1 VP on turn 2

Scheme 1 & VP Scored

 

Outflank, 1 VP on turn 3 + 1 VP end game

Scheme 2 & VP Scored

 

Power Ritual, 1 VP on turn 3

 

 

If you could play this same Encounter again, what would you do differently?

 

Just deployment and strategy mistakes, some key models deployed on the center, when the key was on the edges.

 

 

MVP model (and Why?)

 

Lady J, due to her mobility could fastly hunt the “scheme runners” on one side and prevent  opponent’s VP.

 

 

Player 2

 

 

 

Forum Name

 

Non-forum user

Leader

 

Von Schill

Crew List

 

Von Schill, Hannah, Arik Schoettmer, Drache trooper, Librarian, Freikcorpsmann,  Freikcorpsmann, Steam Trunk

Strategy VP Scored

 

1 VP on turn 2

Scheme 1 & VP Scored

 

Outflank 1VP on turn 2

Scheme 2 & VP Scored

 

Power Ritual  0 VP

 

 

If you could play this same Encounter again, what would you do differently?

 

2 Henchman was a bit overkill, would change Hannah for engineers and/or scouts.

 

 

MVP model (and Why?)

 

Arik Schoettmer, keeping engaged multiple enemy models + tanking their damage, restraining Lady J’s placement with Gravity Well.

 

 

Additional Feedback?

 

Most of my local players are former inactive M2E players, so trying to give a chance to M3E. This was first M3E game for Von Schill’s player, so we when slowly, reading each Encounter and Turn Step to get a good idea of the new rules.

Cursed Idol was a funny but really weird Strategy, 2 out of 3 turns we had Crows, so markers were in the very edge (Flank Deployment). We love how progressively harder is to score on Strategies, so no high scores can be made in M3E.

It seems to be a remarkable contrast with Schemes: “Outflank” and “Power Ritual” seems more fully doable than “Dig their Graves” or “Take prisoners” (so no surprise we chose the same schemes). Not sure if some are too easy or the others too difficult.

Von Schill’s player liked how the Equipment Upgrades worked, a bit similar to M2E McCabe. Good overall synergy among all the Freikcorps, and useful tricks on the trunk.

Lady J’s Leap is really powerful, but the suit(s) required is a fair price, so a mid-high Cache is a must.  Opponent spread wisely his models, so I had no chance to use the feared Quick Reflexes trigger. I still think Closed Beta’s Lady J payed a high price to keep this potentially chance to probably deal a lot of hits somewhere sometimes. Brutal Emissary was a good tank, and his offensive options have improved remarkably. Judge was a real melee threat, and his bonus attack action was a nice help.  Couldn’t get a really good use for Exorcist and Recruiter.

 

 

1 hour ago, jphealy said:

Also I've done it in a beta game.  Not that hard to do.   Its devastating and well worth the stones.  

 

 Sad, but mainly true. I am not a big fan of this maneuver, makes me think a bit about Vicks M2E "let's wait and drop the melee bomb to the enemy". A one-trick pony where you burn most of your resources. And even if it fails, Lady J has her chances to survive. Seems it will be her signature move, her main tactic, her "this is what makes me different from other combat masters".

 During these 4 pages of thread have tried to find and expound why a stat 7 without quick reflexes Lady J would be better for the game, but i think can't find anything else to add.

 "Lady 6" will look nice on the shelf. 

 

2 hours ago, Adran said:

Short answer, because when that was tried she was deemed too good. 

Who knows where we'll end, she might get it back, or she might not.

 

 Adran, could you confirm the information from Sweet Tooth on page 1 of this thread? A lot of things have been said in these 3 pages and i want to be sure.

Quote

 

It definitely came up during the CB. Our Lady J started CB at stat 7. After a few weeks the feedback from developers was that she was significantly over powered at stat 7 with her ability to get out 7 attacks in a turn (leap trigger & trigger on the greatsword), based on battle report evidence. The comments about Nekima and Viks surfaced and the response was that those masters are typically doing other actions beyond simply swinging their swords & didn't have the ability for 7 attacks (so I assumed everyone is playing Lady J as a straight damage dealer).

I've been playing her at stat 6 and it's still a significant threat at the min 3 damage, given the reduced damage tracks this edition.

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Adran said:

 

I'm not saying that your conclusions are wrong, I'm just saying that you haven't produced data her to support them.

 

 

 

Which kind of data do you need to support the idea that 7 attacks for 1 master/1 activation is overpowered? 

2 hours ago, Cleezy said:

Ignoring the majority of your post as its not relevant to the point I was making thus not worth commenting on.

Your maths illustrates the point entirely on why stat 7 on LJ’s greatsword would be too much. She can hit everything (bar a handful of models) on a straight and without really cheating the damage much put out a ridiculous amount of damage.

Stat 6 makes that less likely, alters the targets you choose and most likely alters the damage approach.

Like I said, I played numerous games with both versions which has brought me to the reasoning I have and I am cool with it.

I am sorry, but my math illustrates that 7 AVERAGE attacks deals more damage than 3+1 unreallistically megabuffedMAXED attacks.

 The stat is not taking into account in those figures. 

 So the numbers points the number of attacks (Quick Reflexes) as the problem. 

9 hours ago, LunarSol said:

The stat 7 debate comes down to a "principle of the thing" kind of debate for me.  I'd like her to have it.... on principle.  I don't really think it would make her necessarily OP if she had it either, but she's strong without it as well.  The rest of her kit works and breaking that just because people feel like she "should" be stat 7 would be very disappointing.

I think the stat 7 debate comes from nerfing the wrong part of an abusive combo: the problem is not the stat 7, is triggering 3 times in an activation the Quick reflexes (you can see the figures in a previous post) 

Get back to stat 7, nerf Quick reflexes to "Once for Activation", and we can have a more balanced Lady J (imho). 

22 minutes ago, Cleezy said:

In the closed beta she could have 6-7 attacks at stat 7 and use 3 stones or cards if you had masks or you could have 3 attacks hitting severe with double crit strike and one attack hitting severe if you wanted to dedicate the resources to it.

Those 3 attacks severe with double crit + 1 severe attack are like... 8 stones? (1x 3 stones for positive flip damage, 1x3 stones for the extra ram, 1 stone for the trigger on leap, 1 stone for positive dmg flip) 

Or maybe just 4 stones for the triggers and generously assuming you have 4 severe cards in hand to cheat? 

Ok, i will bite: 3 attacks severe double ram: (5+1+1)x3=21 dmg. 1 attack severe = + 5 dmg. Total: 26 dmg

7 attacks moderate dmg: 7x4=28 dmg. 

Just now, jphealy said:

Except stat 7 makes her more of that.  She becomes even more of a flat out single beater.  The triggers give her versatility.  You are literally talking about removing options to gain strength

 

I honestly think  3-4 attacks stat 7 is potentially weaker than 6-7 attacks stat 6. The brute force is in the 7 attacks, not in the stat. And the options are removed the moment she is designed to center her burst in that trigger.

 

 

41 minutes ago, jphealy said:

 The idea she needs to go to stat 7 is ludicrous.  She hits hard hits multiple models is mobile and survivable.

 

What could be ludicrous is that trigger: some of us don't want the main tactic for Lady J to be burning most of our Cache in a single activation to go rambo into the bulk of the enemy crew with a single superhero model dealing an obscene number of attacks, meanwhile the rest of our crew stay cheerleading her. We can play Infinity for that.

 Some of us honestly prefer that trigger out, and get back the stat 7 to be a threat for high defense targets.

 

 

2 hours ago, retnab said:

IMO all "attack again" triggers should be once per turn. That'd help tone down the Viks' potential 12 attacks in a row BS too

Completely agree. If i am understanding correctly the info about CB, Lady J and Perdita stats were toned down because of an specific tactic abusing this trigger (max Cache and burn 2-4 soulstones in a single activation to get Mask on each attack = 7/6 attacks). 

I wonder why wasn't the trigger nerfed, so the players who don't like to run this tactic can get a Lady J/Perdita with a better attack. 

2 hours ago, Zebo said:

And Perdita's trademark through M2E has been dealing damage with 2/4/5 damage spread. 

Although I wouldn't mind to see Quick Reflexes changed to Swift Action. 

And it worked perfectly fine in M2E, along with the rest of her set and her Crew...but is definitely not working in M3E, so changes may be suggested. 

33 minutes ago, Ceej said:

I dont think Perdita needs a higher damage track. When she got masks she put in work.  She has critical strike already.  Let other masters be bursty. She's still shooting at 7. We felt she could reliably put out damage.

 

 Not sure if I understand what do you mean with "Let other masters be bursty"; dealing damage has been Perdita's trademark through whole M2E. Which has to be the role of Perdita (and the Ortega's) in M3E?

 With a quick check, I count 10 masters in 1.23 with a min 3 dmg (Schill, Vik, Seamus, Reva, Basse, Lady J, Nekima, Euripides, Mah, Colette). Ok, Perdita has stat 7, but other Masters have already stat 7, or better range, or better damage, or Blasts or even a Bonus Attack Action (Collette). I know comparing Masters is complicated, and I am not saying she has to be the top of the top, but a min 3 dmg is not something rare. Depending on suits to deal good damage seems a bit unfair for a damage dealer Master.

 Anyway, I hope the current state of Perdita and the Ortega's gets some improvement.

 

Worried to read these battle reports where the Ortega's can't deal enough damage. 

I think Perdita and Francisco should have a min 3 dmg (at least Francisco should has an attack like Judge: stat 6+built-in suit.,3/4/6 dmg). 

I don't know how to improve Tough as Nails. Maybe:"Use a Pass Token to give Armour +1 to this model until the end of the turn"? 

The Obey on Abuela seems nice, but she should has some useful non-Attack non-Bonus action. She should be one of those models in a shooty crew with weak attacks but interesting tactical actions. Maybe give her the Analyze Weakness, so Perdita has not to spend 1 of her actions to use it? 

I like the crossbows of the Exorcists ignoring Friendly Fire, so i can have 1-2 Exorcist shooting into the Lady J and/or The Judge's engagements (boy, that 3/4/6 on Judge's sword looks really nice). 

 I agree DMRs don't look really impressive for 8SS.

5 hours ago, Rufess said:

Beware that one of the main goal of this edition is to unify all similar ability/action into one. So when we are looking to edit a single action like this, all models with same action have to be taken into account. Bill Algren in Ten Thunder (any maybe more models as well) shares the Heroic Intervention with Francisco. I am not familiar with him enough to determine what is the impact of changing from pushing to placing. But if the issue is that friendly model may blocking the way, then changing it to moving seems to be... 

The Move solution sounds great and balanced; fingers crossed for devs considering your point. 

12 minutes ago, retnab said:

A place effect is a massive buff compared to a push, especially for a melee beater.

 

 I agree a place effect is powerful (even considering is a 6" place), but Francisco is a 10SS Henchman. The current "Heroic Intervention" looks great on paper,  and its main use seems to be disengage friends + engage Francisco, but i honestly think in game can't work as intended most of the times. Any suggestion about a possible fix (or how to use it properly) will be appreciated.

 

9 hours ago, Morgan Vening said:

I have no issue with this, but to avoid abuse, how about "Then, Push this model 6" towards the target, ignoring friendly models."

Cause I can see Place allowing him to teleport up/through walls, or to get to the far side of the model (and I don't think there's a precedent for placing that restricts to "towards"?).

Same effect as the original, without the exception you're calling out.

 

 I can see your point, but an special push that ignores friendly models seems a bit messy.

 Maybe a Place and adding a LoS requirement to the Action could make it.

 

 

M3E Francisco’s Tactical Action “Heroic Intervention” (pushes away friends, pushes towards Frank, make attack) seems the new version of the M2E “Enfréntate a Mi!” (Place Frank, pushes away friends).

Keeping in mind that the pushes “away” and “towards” are from/to the center of the models, and that  pushes can be stopped by other models, I am worried the new action can’t work as intended: due to the tight distances (range 6”, friends pushed out  5”, Frank pushed in 6”) I think most of the time some pushed friend model can end in the way of Francisco, so his push towards the enemy will stop (and the attack will be lost).

Should it be easier to play with a “push away friends, PLACE Francisco base contact to the enemy”?

 

 

Looking forward to playing with Lady J, Perdita and Sonnia.

I didn't participate on Closed Beta and, checking the Keyword List, i notice Lucius and Nellie have really small basic hiring pool models (2-3 type of models each). Do they have any hiring trick or advantadge, or simply these Masters will use more non-keyword models than others?

3 hours ago, Ludvig said:

Get in on the beta if you need that kind of information to keep interest, I'm guessing that's the kind of thing that can shift. No matter their keywords you won't know for sure if they will be super good models or total duds who no one plays for the following five or so years. Just look at witchling handlers or guild guard, wouldn't have helped to know their keyword in advance (which we did that time around).  

 

 Well, as far as i know, currently i can't get in on the beta. About shifts, considering most models will have 1 (rarely 2) keyword(s), can't see a lot of changes coming in that way. And i am not (very) worried about super good models, just considering the new hiring system will be based on (or at least favouring) thematic crews, would hate to blindly buy now some Resser for my Mcmourning's crew or some 10T for my Mccabe's crew just to find later it has not the keyword.

I will try to sit and patiently wait until M3E launch, but meanwhile i am stuck on getting my crews ready

 I hope Wyrd would launch some kind of Keyword List preview; currently i am stuck in this transition from M2E to M3E and really lost about which models should buy to improve some of my outdated crews, for my crews whose Master is changing Faction, or even consider an Outcast Master for my Mercenary models.

Waiting 5+ months to start getting my bands ready for M3E can really kill my hype

On 8/17/2018 at 11:47 PM, Dirach said:

 

Maybe Ryle will be a key piece to open up archanist constructs?

 

 

 Today i realized Ryle is in Wyrd's Death Man's Hand List: https://www.wyrd-games.net/m3e-dead-mans-hand

 So i suppose he will not really be meta or key piece.

 A pity, i never used him too much in M2E, and was hoping to find a good use in M3E for him.

 

 

 

 Lady J,  my first master. In the (dark) grey world of Malifaux, she seems to be a true do-gooder (i have a weakness for good guys).

 And gameplay-wise, rushing to the enemies with a "El Mayor" + "Fear not the sword" buffed Lady J has some strange satisfying feeling that i can't describe with words...

 

I really hope M3E nails the thematic crews, and a Lady J + death marshalls + some "Guild Marshall" henchman/enforcers would be a viable and well-rounded crew.

 

 

 

 Nice report, dude.

 Next time, it would be nice to see pictures of the matches.

 Maybe you could delight us with some photos of your miniatures? I would love to see your Arcane Emissary.