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Dual masters + titles should be a plantest on its own… so much broken stuff… especially ressers 

ehmmm so explorers can win vs cadmus. what a relief... its not like ivan or jedza are far behind nexus... still way about the rest of the game tbh.

Gotta say as a non guild player is kinda boring to tech more against Fiona than against masters when playing against guild....would love to see a change in LLC.

LFG  pm me 

Nice, thank you.

Hey, I just wartend to ask if I need to do anything else than sending the payment to be able to play in the event. Thanks 😃  

i love watching teddies eat themselves or their buddies =D

Basicly the moon shinobi can reach unparalleled accuracy in cases other "normal models" would be very inaccurate.

But their dmg track is still 2/3/4 which is ok, but you have to calculate with it. 

On 7/5/2019 at 3:39 PM, Da Git said:

They're fantastic to go after models with Manipulative or Serene Countenance 

From the Lovin' Life thread, give them the Gillie Suit upgrade and now they have a gun! Shoot into combats/concealment with + to hit! 

and + to dmg into cover?

30 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Yeah, they might not be the best comparison point but they were the only other Tricksy model with the same gun. Still, even without the comparison I think that Roosters shoot too good for what they are and that also makes them a bit too good due to the mitigation of their chief weakness of being squishy.

Summa summarum: I feel that Roosters should be toned down a bit and I think that their shooting prowess is the place to do so.

I feel they should remain the same, or replace a bit of mobility with any form of defensive ability.

17 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

I'm not convinced that the power level has risen, though.

I think that their shooting could be toned down a little. I feel that in its current form it kinda goes against fluff and additionally makes them too safe to use. It's weird that a Rooster Rider is one of the very best shooter options available and massively better than, e.g., a Bushwhacker due to their mobility and access to the third AP not to mention Grit. Dropping the ignores cover and lowering either their range or their stat would be my suggestion.

Bushwhaker are among the worst models you can get for their cost. In the entire game. 

Hi Folks, 

so this saturday I played against the new pandora in a tournament and I (a pandora player myself) was excited to see the new applications of her attack action wording. 

It was the first time I played against this version and after the tournament I checked the posibilities to combine this within the faction. 

I'm not entirely sure about the RAW of this but if what I found is correct, it needs to be fixed, I guess. 

The cost of an action is printed in italics and the effect of an action is printed in normal style. So the rules differentiate between effect and cost. This allows pandora to trigger effects of actions on their own model, even if the cost would prevent the normal use of this kind. Because there is no cost at pandoras action when it is declared and only the effect is replaced. 

This leads to the following;

Pandora attacks zoraida (friendly), zoraida relents. 

Pandora applies the effects of obey to zoraida, ignoring the italics restrictions and costs because it only applies the effects. (with a mask, she double obeys zoraida, because she applies the effects of triggers aswell and mask is the suit needed for ensorcel) (ensorcel is limited to once per activation, which means that of of the 2 ap self loathing generates for zoraida, zoraida can declare 1 ensorcel trigger aswel, because once per activation counts once for each model in each activation (pandoras activation))

So this means, pandora can generate 2 (ensorcel) + 1 +1 bonus ap for zoraida with no cost (tn) involved within her (pandoras) 3 ap.  Zoraida can then trigger ensorcel in pandoras activation to make it basicly 5 bonus ap, kinda, and can declare ensorcel in her activation aswell. 

And yes, then there is candy with the same wording except the trigger application, so 2 more ap for zoraida. 

Im posting this, because I think its not working like it should. Pls dont use this post to start a nerf pandora and nerf zoraida argument. This threat is by far not about power level. Both masters are fine the way they work normally, just this interaction isnt intented I think. 

Changing the wording a little bit should fix the issue. 

By the way, applying effects of other models to themselves is a really nice interesting concept and makes pandora super fun to play IF the hardcore abuse cases are fixed. 

I really enjoy the new concept, just wanted to point out that little case of abuse. 

Correct me if my understanding of the RAW of cost and effect is wrong and we can delete this threat to stop confusion.

PS: There might be issues with things like playing vs nellie and attaching press upgrades to her, or jackdaws curses, but that could be intended (wich I think could be really fun).

pps:

the self loathing action applying ensorcel to Zoraida would generate 2 obeys, of wich the Second one couldn’t use ensorcel because there was already generated by a trigger. But the first one and the other 2 self loathings could. 

On 2/23/2019 at 1:16 PM, Da Git said:

Honestly, if they're sending their min3 beaters after your Sorrows, I'd almost call that a win (unless of course they've already killed everything else!) 

So this weekend my warpig killed a sorrow and a poltergeist about 20" away behind a building in one activation after being moved into position to reach them with reckless, so the poltergeist and sorrow were kinda defensively positioned after they had activated. (Sorrow had 2 dmg already).  No lucky flips involved.

That were the first 2 kills of the game and I won 6/3. My warpig was totally safe after behind a building at this point and was right back in the action the next turn. 

I'm im not saying warpigs are op. cause they are not. Pandora killed it in kinda one activation, but srsly Sorrows are not good models. 

The problem of malifaux m3e: Everything costing you stones that is not reliably doing its job until it dies isnt worth it for competitive play. 

Better be a summon or safe enough via tankyness or behind hidden in the backline as a support minion or something. 

On 2/23/2019 at 2:18 AM, JiimK said:

I have played like 5 games WITH them.

In m2e they nerfed roosters by removing their reckless. Now the nerf has been reverted AND they got the sniper on top of that.

What makes them fair in this edition if they are better than prenerfed roosters in last edition?

The game has changed. Its a new edition and a totally different game, that makes them fair.

10 hours ago, gertermit said:

I respectfully disagree with the idea that Brewmaster should get the old Drunken Kung Fu. He has his own possibilities to deal damage (and we're talking about a lot of damage) with much more intresting mechanics.

Is being min 4 and ml 8 by poison really that interesting tho?

3 hours ago, Saduhem said:

I don't particularly like Datsue Ba either.

One of the best henchmen in the game atm. Funny how perspectives can vary from player to player.

She would definitly be in my top 5 of all henchmen in m3e.

I'd vote for moon shinobi and bremaster himself getting the good old drunken gremlin kung fu as a unique ability as their main thing. 

Right now brewie is a beatstick with resource expensive min 4. Drunken Kung Fu would make him really unique. (Instead of drunken strengh and maybe with a poison synergy)

please... a model with 8 wounds and no defense at all... 

a player who doesnt want to atk it because of grit... 

Is this the same game we are playing? 

In my meta I'm trying to keep my armor 2 models alive for a turn so I have a chance to heal them back up. 

I rly dont know if ur opponents are just playing casual fun themed crews but I'd honestly love to see roosters on the table against me in a tournament. 

They are glass cannon missiles. A lot of competitive crews bring some sort of anti ranged tech because its one of the easiest ways to lose a lot of models early if u dont. 

Melee models with no defense for a cost of 7 are super unreliable. And grit is one of the most dangerous abilities to use in a plan and even more if you dont have acess to amina or ironsides. And even more on an 8 wound model without def abilities. 
 

They are op if its pure scheming and the opponent braught a non combat full support crew with low mobility. Aka. never.

4 hours ago, retnab said:

One of the things the M&SU have struggled with from day one is bubbling up.  Anything that helps to lessen the need to bubble up is good IMO (giving up a Power Token compared to giving up a free action is a lot more bearable if I need him to leave the bubble).  Also if he can generate his own Power Tokens, then the Steamfitter feels less mandatory, reducing his current 16ss cost.  This does of course mean that there would be even less reason to have a Steamfitter now, but that's its own thing  

Excactly. 

The steam fitter has this written all over him: "Not a competitive choice"

One of the last options I would ever consider hiring for his cost. 

And howard plus the steamfitter is the classic malifaux problem; Do I hire a bad model trying to fix a mediocre model? 

That are 16 points which could be spend for actually good models that do their job on their own. 

Ontop of a very synergy reliant bubble crew that is not really flexible itself.

On 2/19/2019 at 8:07 PM, Davos said:

I think Crit on her is gonna to be a trap somewhat.  While the scenario above is amazing for that sweet sweet min 5, I think Hannah blasting after copying Arik's attack is the best, that's a 3/5/7 blast damage, so a severe hit, 5blast is beautiful.  Spread out the damage to everyone ya'll!

Im not entirly sure but don’t the m3e rules say that bonus dmg is only applied to the target and not to blasts, like it was in m2e?

56 minutes ago, S4lt said:

I ran one of these last night and was really impressed. 

Through bowled over and slingshot triggers I pushed a Skeeter 9 inches up the board and was in base contact with it, the Skeeter then took the Wrastler with ride with me and flew, dropped a bomb token in a corner in turn 1. Cycling two bad cards in the process.

The Wrastler managed to block power ritual 2 turns running with his bonus.

 

 

So u used 2 models for a bomb while earl can basically do it for free. Also how the hell did ur opponent not kill the wrestler and then score power ritual... I think the wrestler performed well, because your opponent didn’t have a good gameplan or was not killing the right models. Wrestlers are easy to remove and therefor always a good first target.

Asami summons something that dies later on. It then counts as dead, and a terra-cotta warrior can transform into it.

also the tactical action to remove flicker can be copied.

39 minutes ago, thewrathchilde said:

Please don’t! Howard’s current Grit ability is great in and M&SU crew. With Amina and Toni in the crew with The Injured Workers Act you get plenty of mileage out of his Grit ability and his current Trail of Gore Binus Action.

Sure you don’t get as much Power Token goodness in an M&SU crew but you do get some from Steamfitters making scrap early which can give him some tokens and the trade off is worth it to have him with the pseudo 3 AP instead. 

The only thing Howard needs if anything is +1 Defense and then he is print ready. 

Sry but +1 def wouldnt fix him really. 

I like the suggested change to his grit a lot!  That’s an innovative streamlined way to combine both of Howard’s themes without spending 6 extra Stones just to bring a support model to fix him. 

10 hours ago, Winterfeld said:

Tried Howard yesterday as an alternative for the Peacekeeper and I'm still disappointed. Terrfy helps a little bit to keep him alive , but I can't help myself, he still lacks of everything, what makes him such a great model in m2e. 

Except for the defense trigger ignore, there is nothing special about him. 

M&SU Crews are lacking the power token utility and with Hoffman there are just better options. 

Please try to make him unique again. 

My ideas: remove trail of gore und give him back nimble. That fits the glass cannon idea, and is much less situational. Give him another grit ability instead, maybe something like : 

 

While this model has half of its maximum health or less, it gains 1 power token at the start of its activation. 

That would also solve the missing power token synergies in m&su crews

I really like this version of grit. Gives him flexibility with mnsu and makes him mobile in augmented aswell. Great fix. 

Currently there is no need to change anything in elite. 

The crew plays exactly how it is supposed to play. Like a reliable scalpel.

other crews have better stats, more wounds, more models, more power, summoning, offensive controll, demise explosions etc.

The key of this crew is card controll and ap sharing. 

It enables powerful scalpell turns and channels all the needed ap and cards into the key model.

thats a strength but also a weakness.

played Lucius last week and I played my combos pretty well. But my opponent just realized how Lucius works and adapted.

You won’t win the „I have a better hand so I win the few key Duells I can reliably force“ war against lucius because that’s his main thing.

The same way you won’t win the let’s throw our 3 beatsticks against each other tactic vs Hoffman if u don’t have a very dedicated anti armor crew.

my opponent blocked Line of sight to the agent and singled him out pretty effectively. If the ap chain breaks the Lucius crew gets very ineffective compared to when it’s fully operational.

the goals against Lucius should be to break his control via breaking the support chain and removing the key model.

there are literally tons of ways to play against it and all you got to do is aproach the game with your opponents crew in mind and adapt to their weaknesses and strengths. Sometimes those are a little more abstract and harder to find than the ones of simple crews but that doesn’t mean they are not weaknesses and strengths aswell.

its totally normalen that the beta meta has not fully adapted to all of those weaknesses yet because it’s the beta and things have changed so rapidly. Also, a few months in people will know how to beat certain masters that seems unsolvable at first glance.

I have absolutly no problem facing lucius, because I have played him so many times and also faced opponents that hit me right at the weaknesses. So I know how to deal with the concept of elite.

If we continue to force nerfs to every crew that needs a little time to get used to or to figure out the weaknesses, we will end up with A: extremely simplistic boring crews, or B: a lot of underpowered complex crews. 

Lucius has a very focused and one sided super reliable resource controll playstyle. And that’s excellent. 

Break the supply chain or break his scalpell and he will be a bunch of support models who are bad models on their own with a good hand an nobody to use it and a good model separated from the crew and limited to 2 ap that won’t win the game even with 7 severe cards.

literally tons of options available to each faction that can break the super synergie reliant Lucius crew. 

There is more to Malifaux then flipping cards and winning duels. Especially in m3e there th concept of move, atk, scheme has opened up so much. 

Interrupting the enemy via terrain placement, lure, obey, shockwaves, toss, etc etc... there so many ways to deal with problems and the beta  Forums tunnel Vision very hard on the duel and dmg Part of statistical Malifaux. 

Masters like kaeris and Titania and zipp for example seem pretty one dimensional on paper but once u play against them with an experienced player playing them you will notice that there are so many ways to win a game of Malifaux without relying on cards.

the Lucius crew has a really hard time dealing with properly placed pianos btw. For the the above mentioned reason. No 13 or red joker will help you deal with the pianos or other ways to play the game a little more abstract than super basic smash smash duel focused model trading core Malifaux. 

The agent has been discussed really intensively. He is in an ok spot right now and changing inhuman physiology to discard a card like betrayal would first of all destroy his unique feel and also nerf him super hard. 

Lucius is fine with the card engine, his models don’t do the same shit other crews do without the cards. I’ve played so many games with elite and mimics and srsly those models would never  be a good choice without the carddraw. It’s the main reason to play this crew. The card advantage. Btw other factions have same kinds of card engines and tougher crews to use the cards for. Lucius needs the cards and the obey ap channeling into key models like the agent. That’s the main point of his crew. If u make the agent unreliable and destroy the card draw, the whole crew becomes pointless. 

They drop like flies. 

There are other competitive playtesters that report after dozens of games aswell and yes we see the value of the abilities. 

Other competitive crew literally sh..t on elites once the card engine breaks down, srsly.