Drowsheep

12 hours ago, Wakefield said:

Might I suggest a fancy forum thread on THIS VERY FORUM which is written by me about Lucas McCabe?

Eh, I've got the hang of him now   I've won the last three or four games I've played with him...

19 hours ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

I think the problem is twofold. First and foremost, there is a flaw in a way internal keyword synergies in several TT crews are designed. The logic of keyword synergy is that a model can be a suboptimal choice in vacuum, but optimal if taken with other in-keyword pieces. Many TT keyword synergies are simply not so rewarding and it's enough to take 10-15 ss of in-keyword models. The second problem is what TT versatiles are. In two factions I play – Ressurectionists and Outcasts – versatile models are mostly support pieces, niche picks or Midnight Stalker In TT probably too many versatiles are very effective beaters who do not require much support to work (Samurai, Lone Swordsman, Fuhatsu, Yasunori; the last one is TT equivalent of Riders, so that's understandable). So if you don't need more than 15ss of in-keyword models for your master to work, why would you bother with your not-so-good keyword models if you can hire strong versatiles?

Just to make it clear: I am not for nerfing TT versatiles (except maybe Minako, but this needs to be supported by TT players in the first place), as that may harm the factions performance and limit the number of viable masters. I am for making stronger synergies within keyword. That, however, is a bit difficult after the game has been officialy released.

To be honest; I strongly disagree.  (Well, I agree that there are some great versatiles).

But, I barely, if ever, run versatiles in any crew--I love thematic crews, and I do very well with them.  Asami, Lynch, Youko, Yan Lo, and Mei are all masters that are have cohesive thematic crews that seem to work well for me.

As I said, I've barely played Shenlong in the new edition, but his crew--like Misaki's--does seem to be somewhat reliant on him (also I did play a game with Minako as my master, using Misaki's crew--I won pretty handily despite the lack of synergy).  I can't argue over Shenlong as I have little experience with him.  As for Misaki though, I think her crews main theme (and synergy) is it's ability to work however it wants without needing other models; I mean, Misaki is one of the most mobile masters in the game, being able to teleport to wherever she needs to be--her crew, being almost all self-sufficient models that can go off and do their thing don't necessarily need her or any synergy to get the job done.  Meanwhile, if things get tough, throw down a shadow marker and Misaki can come help.  I'd argue the synergy of Misaki is in her lack of implicit synergy.

As for McCabe--I play him in a very similar way; his crew's synergy isn't necessarily built into abilities and actions, but is more implied by small things the various models are designed to do.

I was a big champion of this back in 2e, and I stand by it in 3e, TT has always been the outlyer in factions--they work slightly differently; they're designed to get the job done, even if they aren't the fashiest--they're definitely the most reliable.

To kind of invert your thesis statement; I think the reason the TT have so many beaters in their versatiles is because they have such good support built into the thematic crews.  

I'll admit I haven't played (that much of) Shenlong or Lynch, but of the other masters I find very little in their keywords that really makes me feel like anything is broken.

I had a hard time understanding how to make McCabe work--and I'm told that I play him in a fashion unlike most other McCabes--but that's more of the opposite XD

I think there are definitely powerful models, but nothing immediately leaps to mind as being broken.

Hey!

Trying to track down a Toshiro model; don’t need the card.

Anyone have one to sell or trade?  I do t have a lot of trade options, but let me know!  Thanks!

Oh--I'm a dummy; it was here, and like three posts down XD

Never mind.

Hey,

A few days ago I feel like I saw concept art for the new Chiaki and Izamu.  I can't seem to find it now.  Does anyone know where that was, or where I can find it?

Thanks!

I, also, haven't started a game with the dragon out--only with the Effigy.

But, when he comes out, it's great.  Can work independently, or with the team.  I don't recall there being a lot of synergy other than the Emissary is a good model and Misaki and her crew are a good crew.

Glad you expanded on your view and gave some more details on how you feel.

10 hours ago, LCBrules said:

Con's

1. getting rid of an increased charge distance and having "charging" (running) the same distance as walking makes no sense and wastes more time on movement.

2. reducing the range of most melee abilities means now you have to walk more and you have to get close for combat. Instead of speeding the game up, this has slowed it down even more

3. Getting rid of the master specific upgrades is the most disappointing thing for me. Now the masters feel very generic and have lost the range of mechanics i could choose to switch between game per game. The Dreamer crew feels completely different, the dreamer lost a lot of cool, fun healing, control, movement abilties and got... a bat? LCB feels way squishier, lost his awesome teeth attack, and his extra attacks with his claws as well as his melee master. Widow Weaver lost her ability to make Teddy's (one of my favorite things) as well as her ranged attack, and now just pushes people further away and spins webs. Titania's Autumn Knights all became generacized and lost the whip abilities, spear abilities, and 2hsword abilities that made them unique and interesting. The Emissary of Fate lost his fun, carniverous plants ability that really matched his theme.

4. Needing to spend +1 summon points to summon a character from your same faction seems like a huge deterrent and makes me way less likely to mix and match and try new things.

5. Paralyze was one of my favorite mechanics and now it is gone. A lot of the new mechanics seem very underwhelming

6. Investing in certain crews and characters only to have them moved to different crews with different keywords and/or functionality is disappointing.

1) As was said, definitely keep playing-- you'll see that you might be getting in less attacks per activation, but more attacks throughout the game. At first I was thrown too, because objectively, it looks like it got worse.  But now you have the option to move, charge or to charge, attack, or even do other things that a normal model couldn't do before because they had to spend both AP on their charge.  So, I think, as far as giving you options on what you can do, this was a good call.

2) This I can get behind, but again, being able to move then charge means that having 0" reach is more reach than it used to be.  I also like it because it makes some plays a bit harder--not every model can control an area of the board as wide as they used to (which just changes the dynamic of the game a bit).

3) I also wish their were more upgrades for masters--but a lot of that content got moved to triggers or to the base cards themselves.  so while a lot was streamlined for ease of play (and to help get new players up to speed), it also wasn't all lost (depending on your master).

4) This is one of those double-edged swords--but I'm glad they did it.  At the end of 2e, crews were all starting to look alike, there were go-to models that were auto-includes because they were too good.  This game has always been about the story and the flavor--so having everyone's crew look alike because they're just playing the "best" models is no fun.  Making thematic crews makes it a more varied experience--and makes you use more of the models you paid for but never put onto the table.  I am 100% down for this!  

5) Gonna be honest, while it might feel cool to paralyze something and watch your opponent squirm, it was never a good feeling getting paralyzed.  I'm fine it got tossed.  

6) I get that 100%--I really feel sorry for people who lost their favorite master (or who bought five boxes of witchling stalkers they now can't use). I also think that Neverborn got hit the hardest (which might have been for good reason  ) so I do feel your pain there.  This will always suck no matter what game you play.  But all games do this--it's the inevitable momentum of gaming companies to change things up (whether it's banning cards in a card game, releasing a new edition--with new expansions--of a board game, or upgrading a codex and totally changing how certain models work--or whether those models even exist).

All in all, I know that reading random people on the internet's opinions aren't going to make you feel better--but try it out, play a few games.  The new streamlined rules are still pretty similar to what it used to be, but a lot of the extra fluff was cut--making it more manageable and more easily understood.  There are less surprises that will just totally ruin your--or your opponent's day--which I think is good, because it means more people are having fun and enjoying the game.

It's really easy to theory-faux based off of the cards, but just get out there and play.  I've played against the Dreamer and he's pretty scary (milling through your own deck to get rid of all of your weak cards is pretty awesome).  As far as I'm concerned, the Neverborn might have been hit pretty hard in the new edition, but they're still a deadly force to be reckoned with, and no joke to face down on the other side of the table!

On 7/15/2019 at 12:55 PM, Cursed25 said:

McCabe is a pretty good secondary master too with Mei! the 2 of them really love their scrap markers and Luna (McCabe totem) can drop 1 per turn! Also you can get pretty good card draw with his crew!

It's also nice that the master riding the train and the master riding a horse work well together

That definitely is a cool synergy thing I hadn't thought of.  With both Luna and Forgeling, you get two free scrap in addition to whatever else you brought along.  The more scrap the better-- especially now that Ramos is dead  

I'll be 100% honest and say I don't think I've purchased a single non-thematic upgrade this entire third edition.

They seem good, but I just never have the soulstones for them--I'd much rather do something else with them, I guess?

23 hours ago, Nikodemus said:

At the same time I'd say Misaki isn't tied to her keyword the same way as Yan Lo for instance. I think optimal list will have more Last Blossom in it than not, but as a midtable mediocrity I feel pretty comfortable whether I'm playing in or out of theme with Misaki.

I bring Wokou as a counter pick to scheme marker pools/keywords. They've been ok. Not an "every game" pick. I like how I've painted mine

And I totally agree, I think that is definitely another strength that she has--she can work with almost anything on the table.  While her thematic crew does get benefits from her markers, you could easily enough replace them with other models and Misaki still functions.

I think that with the many options she brings to the table, just from her thematic crew options, you have a wide range of models (utility, damage, scheme running, etc).  I really love thematic synergy, so I'm all about running her thematic crew.  But yeah, she definitely doesn't suffer at all from getting other models on the board.

Haven't tried Mei out too much since 3e  (only a game or two)-- and I haven't yet done one of my old favorite tricks, which is hiring an Obsidian Oni to just lob scrap markers at potential targets and then rail walk in on that.

At 8ss for out-of-keyword hire, it's a little pricey, but I think it'll still be worth it.  Combine that with Minako Rei being versatile and summoning Katashiro, or bringing Asami along for the ride to to summon other Oni, it could be a pretty fun game, no?

On 6/8/2019 at 11:32 AM, Dr Mittens said:

Minako Rei specifically for Mei Feng is a great summoner.

Minako is versatile, I noticed while going through the new cards--so that's pretty awesome!  I don't remember if she was in beta or not, but I didn't think she was.

Some people are starting to mention Masters.  Which masters do we think work well together--and which would you make Leader vs which do you hire in?

I think it might be funny (though I have no idea how feasible or practical this actually would be) to have Mei Fang rail walk into combat and then have Asami turn the scrap she railed in on into Oni to back Mei up.

Similarly, I felt that Youko might work nicely with Misaki or Mei--giving them good support and hampering my opponent (both with card control and pass token/activation control) so that I can take down what I need to.

Since 3e came out, I actually haven't ran Misaki with any versatile non-Last-Blossom models.

The Crime Bosses are fun models that can hit hard, but also have support options.

The Torakage are great scheme runners.

Wokou Raiders are the only model I'm not 100% sure of--I just haven't played them that much for whatever reason (they aren't as well painted as my crime bosses is the reason, tbh). But the few games they've been on the table they've done good things.

Ototo is actually usable again. Yamaziko isn't as good as she used to be at the end of 2e, but she's still great, and can be very dangerous.

Archers are decent, as are snipers, depending on your pool of schemes.  I think it's worth having one or the other, but both can be good.

Minako Rei is great--I like having a bit of summoning to either even the odds, or just run schemes.

As for Misaki herself, she's such a good master right now.  Being able to bounce around makes her hard to pin down (i.e. hard to kill), but where other Masters in TT who can bounce out (like Mei) are somewhat limited in where you place your scrap, Misaki can pick where to drop her shadows, and can reach farther.

All in all, her thematic crew are all decent models and worth taking depending on your pool.  While TT has some cool versatile models that are nice to have, I almost think that Misaki is self-sufficient enough to not need them if you don't want to bring them.

9 hours ago, Black_Shuck said:

Guild: Lucius

Ressurectionists: McMourning

Neverborn: Pandora 

Arcanists: Colette

Outcasts: Parker 

Ten Thunders: Youko 

Gremlins: Zoraida

Any tips for those listed above? (And your opinions on popularity/unpopularity youve seen?

Lucius is going to be changing what he is in the next edition, he used to be a support master that used and maximized a lot of guild minions.

Now he’ll be in charge of the elite faction, kinda the top tier members of the guilds forces.  I haven’t seen him play,  but I think how he worked in 2e will be different from how he functions in 3e.

McMourning was super potent in 2e, not sure how he’s doing in 3e,  but I know he was always more popular in Ressers than in Guild—I don’t think he’s changed to horribly much between editions other than focusing on his more potent resser side.

Pandora can be pretty scary, while I haven’t seen as many people play her, the games I’ve played against her have always been tough (even when I’m the high Wp Ten Thunders).

i have a special place in my heart for Colette, but she’s definitely not an easy master to play.  This is one of those masters you might really enjoy since she can be tricky, she doesn’t have a lot of damage output or tank-y models in her list, she relies on smoke, mirrors, and good planning/playing to keep her from getting wiped off the board.  But if you play her well, she’s so fun.

Parker seems pretty good to me—he hasn’t changed to much between editions.  But while I like how he works mechanically, his main mechanic is manipulating his opponents scheme markers, which can be dangerous and scheme markers get go for your opponents VP, so it’s kind of a dangerous game.  Again, you might enjoy that.

Youko isn’t out yet.  So you’d have to proxy her until her box releases (the only model that is Qi and Gong that’s released is the Oiran—with a new name now).  I think some people dislike her since she is kind of a control master, but isn’t the most efficient.  She’s similar to Colette, but has some larger beaters—the kabuki warriors.  He henchman, Bill is also a little jack-of-all-trade-y making some people dislike him. That being said, I’m a fan of her and her crew and want to pick her up once she hits the shelf (I am also a hardcore TT player).

Similar to Colette and Youko, Zoraida is a control master.  I don’t know much about her in 3e. But she was very tricky in 2e.  I think some people feel like she was greatly weakened—suffering many of the same issues Colette and Youko suffer from.

Hope that helps you figure stuff out.

I think Ten Thunders might be the faction for you to try out; or Outcasts.

both factions are diverse with eclectic masters that do weird things and that have harsh learning curves,  that being said, they’re fun to play.  Ten Thunders had a few rumough patches in 2e as they’re an elite faction that focuses more on objectives than combat.  Outcasts are the most gimmick-y; in a fun way.

I would read through the beta games and forums, maybe you can find a recurring theme of some master or other not working—and that can be your master?

I of course didn’t read that it was  Nathan who had replied. So now I like pretty silly XD

Definitely a young woman, probably mid-twenties to thirty since she was the “star reporter” for Malifaux’s newspaper before her death.

Hey!

I have been using the "Final" PDFs as my source for what is what.  The Gremlin model Survivor is currently (in the PDF) labeled as a Foundry model so someone we can take with Mei Fang.

However, Wyrd released (I think before this iteration of pdfs by quite a bit) a list of which models go with which keyword--and Survivors were not Foundry.

I just want to double-check that they are indeed Foundry--or is it still too early to know.

Thanks!

To change the direction of the conversation a bit--how do people feel about her power level compared to other masters?  I like her, but the two games I played I did very well.  I want to keep playing her, but I'll be teaching some people how to play 3e (and want to be on top of my crew so I can focus on making sure they're doing what they need to do), but I also do want to roll over them with a master that is just really good.

What masters (probably in the TT, but other factions as well) work well against her?  Or against what makes us worry when we have Misaki on the table?

On 4/2/2019 at 8:34 AM, AngelRogue said:

Alt Fae crew. Oberon and his court.

Oberon's drue would of course be Puck.  I would love this!

A female Yan Lo or Lynch would be cool--I'm particularly sold on Yan Lo as something akin to the noh witch in Throne of Blood.

Muraki pretty much nails it.

Just so you have a list of versatile TT models (in 3e), TT models that are versatile are: Dawn Serpent, Shadow Effigy, Shadow Emissary, Samurai, Fuhatsu, Lone Swordsman, Tanuki, Ten Thunder Brothers, Obsidian Statue, Terracotta Warriors, Wanyudo, Yasunori, and Lust.

While I want to check out McCabe, I haven't yet in 3e, but I expect you'll want to supplement his thematic crew with a heavy beater from the versatile list or one of the other thematic crews.

Checks out—awesome; I just couldn’t find it when I was in the game (albeit, the rules I was using was on my phone so I couldn’t search function anything).

I’ve used her shockwave once or twice—definitely not to great effect, but I feel there are definitely applications for it.

does fast trigger right away now mid-activation?  In 2e you got your AP allocation when you activated—I actually had this talk during a game and we weren’t sure.

9 hours ago, Nikodemus said:

My biggest issue, and it's probably ok due to her mobility, is the fact that she kind of needs a buddy when fighting. Min2 is bad and spending two master AP's on min2 attacks without +'s to damage is bad. So my common procedure is Oyabun's Command a min3 charge from someone, then charge Misaki in with +damage, then with last AP do whatever. Might be an attack without +'s to damage, might be something else. I've tried all upgrades on her and Trained Ninja is pretty much stapled to her card for now

I agree--I hated her damage profile in 2e--however, I feel slightly vindicated with the fact she now can crit her damage with a ram.

I do feel she profits from a buddy with her.  I need to try using Oyabun's command more often; though the games I played usually had her off with a not-as-threatening sidekick.

I need to try out some of the non-thematic options--at present, I've been focusing on the thematic pieces so that I can really get a feel for them.  While two games isn't concrete proof of goodness or badness, I do feel confident with her thematic models.

Hey all!

its been a while since I last posted.  I’ve been waiting to get closer to 3e dropping before I hopped back in to the game.

I know the beta is coming to a close, but I want to hear what people have to say about various models and inside their thematic crews.

I’ve played a few games of 3e, just using Misaki and her crew.  I’ve been using as many of the models as I can do I can get a feel for the various Last-Blossom models to see which are best.

misaki—I love her new style.  She’s dangerous and mobile, but her loss of movement makes it feel balanced. 

Shang—extra card and heals, not much has changed, though I love that damage only happens if misaki unburies off of him.

 Ototo—finally worth the points, dangerous and more versatile, but still balanced.  I like him.

Yamaziko—my only real beef is that her nimble conflicts with her two other bonus actions.  And that her minimum damage is 2 now.  But still deadly, and seems like a good model.

Minako Rei—didn’t use her to best advantage, so I’ll have to do more with her,  but I like being able to summon katashiro off of her.

katashiro—only summoned one, but I love the various abilities, seems like a great model for what it does.

Torakage—crazy movement now, which I love!  Other than movement shenanigans and scheme running, I didn’t do much with these guys.

thunder Archer—On paper looks great, but I didn’t do much with this guy.  I like his scheme marker removal, and I love getting a blast on weak with his bonus.  But I have yet to effectively use him.

Wokou Raider—getting fast by eating a scheme market is great, and actually makes the Raider very versatile.  I like this model a lot.

crime Boss—having a weak damage of 3 is always great, but this guy has never done much for me with the new stats.  Loved this guy a lot in 2e, so I want to try these guys out more.

sniper—haven’t used this guy yet, but looks decent on paper.

All this to say that I like the Last-Blossom models I’ve played with, they all seem decent (even if I didn’t accomplish much with them), and want to play them more.  

Misaki now actually synergizes a bit more with her crew, but can still perform hit and run attacks keeping her enemy distracted while her crew completes objectives.  However, with this extra synergy, it allows her to work with her crew more than in 2e, giving multiple models more mobility and more utility.  Her crew is more kill-y, and slightly more durable, making her and her models more likely to live through more concentrated attacks than they used to be able to endure.

What have you all encountered while playing Misaki?

Well, the more important question is what will you be doing?  if you're just playing to win in a very competitive meta, you'll have to look at what works in your meta and what doesn't.  I personally prefer playing a bit more of a laid-back game and like playing with different models--even if they aren't the *best*.

Investigators and Monster Hunters look like fun models.  Get the models that you want to get!  I find that in the right list most models can be competitive, so get one or two, try them out and see if you like them!