Kyris

8 hours ago, Rathnard said:

80mm bases have a 73mm inner diameter.

100mm bases have a 94mm inner diameter.

120mm bases have a 116mm inner diameter.

I'm least sure about the 100mm base. I only have a painted version of them so I had to measure over basing materials.

awesome, man. I greatly appreciate the help. Should be much easier to find what I need with this.

So; this is a pretty simple question, but I can't find any actual answers on this.

Has anyone measured, or is able to accurately measure for me. the inner diameter of the TOS bases? I'm working on some base inserts for myself and I'm running into a stumbling block where I can't for the life of me find the actual diameter I need for the rimmed bases.

I know they're 50, 80, 100 and 120 bases, but that's the outer diameter, not what I need to cut the actual inserts to. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I do need this to be fairly accurate, especially for the 120mm base, given how little space there is between the rim of the base and where the 50mm model bases. the 100 and 80mm base seems to be a little more forgiving. where as the 50MM rimmed bases have the most room for error, on account of them not being multi-model fireteams.

4 hours ago, Adran said:

 

I'm not a programmer or frequent user of the store, but this sounds slightly counter intuitive.

You either just list the products in a slightly different order (re-order by keyword)(and if the keyword you want is in the middle of the alphabet then you scroll through quite a bit to get there, so from what I've learnt using the crew builder app still annoying and multiple keyword models either appear multiple times, or pot luck if they appear with the keyword you want), Or you need to list all the keywords in the tag to just select the one you want to look at, and that makes the list very unwieldy. I think there are over 60 keywords.

There may well be a neat way to do it as you want, but I can't see it.  ( I might also not be seeing what you actually want. )

 

the way the tags work, is a filter. So, currently. if you go to the M3E store, and select "browse by tags", it filters out anything that DOESN'T have that tag. currently the tags that exist are all of the factions, "limited"(for limited edition stuff I assume, haven't checked it), and a few months. currently i believe the dates are nov 2019, dec 2019, and jan 2020, which i assume is filtering to the models that were released those months.

What I'm proposing is adding the keywords to that list of filters/tags. Even just the major ones. I'm fine if it excludes things like beasts or human since those are rarely used. But it'd be nice to be able to select the faction you play, select the keyword you're trying to find stuff for, and just filter everything else out.

8 hours ago, solkan said:

I don't know.  Do you want the Puppet Wars box set showing up on all of the result pages, since I'm pretty sure it has enough models in it that it'll have most keywords covered?

Edit:  I think the problem is where do put the keyword list, and how do you scope it?  Especially when you're dealing with the boxes that contain models with different keywords.

seems pretty obvious to me.

webstore>ME3>browse by tag.

What I find interesting about the current tags is that, for the M3E page anyway, you *can* separate them all by faction which doesn't count as a tag. and then the vast majority of the tags currently are faction. Which is nice for finding duel-faction masters, I suppose? Since, for example, if you click on the neverborn faction symbol and use the guild tag, lucius and the crossroad seven are the only two products that come up.

1 hour ago, Jesy Blue said:

.... why don't you just search by the keyword you're interested in?

You could. Still just seems easier to have it as a filter IMO.

Not super sure if this is the right subforum to put this, honestly. But, basically what the title says. I feel like a "sort by keyword" option would be incredibly useful. While I know that the keywords are pretty well known, and if not there are things like the app and the "big book of keywords", it's still a little annoying having to cross reference another page, or app on your phone. I think this would add a bit of useful functionality and make it that much easier to find what you're looking for on the webstore.

Hey Ya'll. So, I've been away from 'faux for awhile, and looking into the new stuff, i've noticed something strange going on with Nekima.

She's been upgraded to a master, which means she'll be getting a crew box. While we don't know the contents of that box yet, we know a few things and can make some educated guesses; namely her totem is the Blood Hunter, and Hayreddin is her only in-keyword henchman, so its likely he'll be the packaged henchman for her. and likely her box will include something like terror tots, and maybe some nephilim.

But, here are the weird things I've noticed.

Her master page and M3E card on the app both use her Alternate model, leading me personally to believe that they're going to make that from the Alt. Sculpt to her regular sculpt and maybe M2E nekima will become "vintage" nekima.

despite this, she's had a solo M3E box released of her alternate sculpt.

this alternate sculpt is also not available during the easter sell. - this is slightly mitigated by the fact that alt. hungering darkness also isn't available, so maybe they're only doing M2E alternates/special editions?

Hayreddin has just been announced as being a sold packaged in with black blood shaman.

I'm just curious as to what's going on. Is she getting a new sculpt for M3E? if so, why use her Alternative art for the card and her master page? Maybe thats just the closest representation to current Nekima we have? - who is her henchman? if its not hayreddin, As far as I'm aware every master who's been getting updated boxes have either already been announced/released, or they're just getting new sculpts rather than entirely new box contents.

1 hour ago, SunTsu said:

I don't understand this thing... I think it's not very in line with giving a cost to masters...

its because you can hire other masters into your crew.

So, say you're running titania+totem. you can spend some of that 50SS pool to hiring, say, euripides into titania's crew.

Slight side note; wyrd, if Titania is getting a new sculpt for M3E, can we please give her a stronger glue point? Same with molly?

Those girls do not like to stay to their bases.

3 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

It's probably all a matter of perspective. I was pleasantly surprised with how few models were affected. I was expecting more and was not expecting cards for the models that were being removed.

Don't get me wrong. I'm super happy with like, 99.9998% of the changes that they've announced so far. it's just that the few changes I don't like, depending on how they handle them. Will be deal breakers for me. I'm sure Wyrd already has a great plan in store, and I'm sure they'll be fine. But it's better to voice that you don't like something and explain why you don't like it then sit in silence hoping they don't (in my opinion) mess it up, because that might give a false perspective of how many people dislike these changes.

I'm not going to take my models and burn them or anything, but I am cautiously pessimistic about these changes.

9 hours ago, WWHSD said:

 

There’s a tremendous difference in scale that we’re talking about here. M3E might be putting $60 or $70 worth of models across the entire game into a state where they still have rules to use in casual and select tournament play. When GW scraps a faction, we’re talking about $1000+ armies that no longer have any rules.

Yes. the scale is different but the principle is very much the same. and a lot of people I see aren't just angry because they're losing their favorite master or their faction is losing more than anyone else or something like that - although I do see that. It's just a lot of people disagree on principle with the idea of removing choices from players, or invalidating models that they already own.

9 hours ago, Lalochezia said:

Ravenguard are very hard to paint. People underestimate how hard it is to paint pure black or pure white.

Also, I am very excited to see the new giant prophet Neverborn master.

I wouldn't even say it's Hard. At least not for me; White used to be very hard for me but i've gotten a lot better at it.

it's just that it's very minute details. I usually don't bother edge highlighting unless I have to. But, since their armor is pure black, the only really way to add depth(which, usually i get from shading), is to edge highlight every, little detail.

34 minutes ago, admiralvorkraft said:

As someone who made a post that could be construed as critical of some/all of those complaining about their "lost" masters, allow me to elaborate.

You are allowed to feel however you want. Your feelings are valid. However your feelings don't change the fact that the current game-state makes competitive play basically a joke. The shift towards optimized aggro crews is a natural extension of there being so much crap in the game right now that the only way to reliably deal with it is to just clear the board. It's like if every chess game saw you sitting down across a board and looking at sixteen models that moved in ways you vaguely recognized but didn't really understand. Rather than trying to play for the checkmate you almost have to first set the board to a simple enough state that you can accurately anticipate moves. It defeats the whole way the game is structured.

So to have a competitive Malifaux scene you need a way to limit the variables to some quasi-human manageable number. To do that you need to streamline the game somewhat and introduce a limiting factor on the number of models that players need to be familiar with. The first one is obviously a goal of M3E but the second one is tricky. It's tricky because some people have an emotional investment in their crews - that's to be expected - and it's tricky because Wyrd needs to keep people buying models. The only way to satisfy the first and third priorities (maintaining a competitive scene and profits within the business model) is to impose a rolling limited format. Say 7 masters per faction, 10 henchmen, etc. 

Satisfying the the emotional needs of individuals to see their well loved models on the tabletop means a compromise. I think that a good place to start is updating those masters and other models that have rotated out of "standard" so that they are playable under the active rules-set and are balanced for good casual play - meaning that they aren't rigorously tested in all combinations and scenarios, but that they are put on the table a few times with their theme crew and are reasonably fun for both players.

Now if Wyrd intends to move to a rotating format (and I really hope they do) then I think they need to do so very intentionally, and communicate proactively. This is especially important with the US Masters Tour coming online. That way those of us who are committed wargamers first, last, and always have a continually balanced and supported game that we can continue to spend money on. Those who care more about the hobby aspect can build and paint to their heart's content and play casual, fun games with whatever master they want. And players who like to see the story move can cheer for certain results in tournaments and special events that will advance the story in interesting ways.

I'm not saying make the game "worse" or "unplayable" for certain players, but supporting different formats that encourage players of all stripes to continue to engage with the game seems like a strictly good idea. We can all win out of this.

I don't think it's purely an emotional response, though. I'm against invalidating player choice and player purchases merely on principle. Yeah, I don't like losing lilith. But even if we kept lilith I'd still be against it.

32 minutes ago, Parker Barrows said:

If you felt he was being rude, call him out (as I'm doing with you), but find a better way than just calling him a jerk. EXAMPLE: "My point of view isn't absurd. And I don't appreciate the passive aggressive framing my views as absurd before wishing me well." There. That's how you could have called him out without being rude. I would still think that was not his intention, but might have said so, but I wouldn't have called you out for being rude and certainly not wrote this long post about it.

Which is what I did the first time. I've been nothing but perfectly civil to start with. But if I ask someone politely to not use such poor arguments against me, and not to put words in my mouth and their response is essentially "Oh, I'M SORRY, Here I thought you were a logical person. my mistake for assuming you had sense". I'm not going to remain civil.

7 hours ago, Saduhem said:

Would have LOVED them as proxies for previous masters/henchmen.

That said, if they get treated well as their own models I'll be even happier

I don't know, for me its this weird thing where I'd probably get more use out of them if they were legal proxies.

I'm not yet, but I do have the intention of going competitive. I may never do it, I may do it starting in 3E, I may do it tomorrow, who knows. But, doing so, I feel like learning DMH masters is almost a waste of my time. I assume we won't be using them at the higher end tournaments, so...Why would I spend my time learning Lilith, getting used to having her on my bench, knowing the ins and outs of how she plays, only to lose access to that playstyle in those higher end tournaments? that's just games I could've spent getting better at one of the other masters. Titania and Nekima, respectively, seem to be analogous to her various playstyles but there's a lot of nuance there that means I doubt they'd play the same. and, Wyrd, for what it's worth, I really, really hope Titania plays very close, if not identical, to what a terrain lilith build is like; thats my favorite playstyle.

That said, there is still a lot I like about this edition. streamlining is almost always a good thing in my experience; while games CAN be over simplified...they can also be overly complicated to. and its not like Malifaux is at risk of being overly simplistic just because a few abilities are being combined together into something more generic, but functionally the same.

A lot of the new masters sound super fun as well. I'm really happy about Resser getting jack and von shtook. Euripides sounds really, really fun to play.

I'm optimistic that the changes to burning and the new edition will give Kaeris some breathing room so that she'll actually be....good.

Just now, lusciousmccabe said:

At least you should be hella good at it by the time you're finished!

Yeah, thats the silver lining i've been telling myself to keep me from throwing a fit and snapping all my models in half(joking, of course.), I have improved a lot from my first RG to the last ones I just did. and that is another thing I like, not just about painting, but about life in general. watching yourself get better, figuring out new techniques and things that work for you. It's fun, and fulfilling, watching your own personal growth and skills get better, even if it is just a hobby.

1 minute ago, 7thSquirrel said:

I hate the act of painting. But I really enjoy the result/fulfillment that comes after it is done and my crew sits on the table.

For me, it depends on the model Some models are just a pain to paint. Others, are a fun challenge. others, are just enjoyable.

Personally, the fun I have the most, as far as hobbying goes. is planning, and finishing. I like being able to plan out what I'm going to do with my models, how I'm going to theme them and things like that. and then seeing it all come to fruition, and the satisfaction from seeing everything come to together.

the actual painting..well, depends on the model. right now I'm working on some 40K stuff before jumping back into finishing my Malifaux models up, and then going to touch up almost every malifaux model I own. and, I am not having a lot of fun with these models for reasons that are entirely my own fault.

Kids, take it from me. Do NOT paint raven guard unless you really, really like edge highlighting.

3 minutes ago, Lalochezia said:

I think there is a difference between putting words in your mouth and abstracting an argument to absurdity. It seemed a logical assumption you wouldn't be in favor of the absurd argument, but apparently you are. My apologies.

Typical. No one can just apologize or admit they did something wrong, can they? they always have to be a snippy, snide little jerk about it.

20 minutes ago, Parker Barrows said:

You are almost certainly in the minority. I got into Malifaux after Mason posted his Kirai from first edition on another forum years ago. As a Henchman, one of the most common ways new players get into Malifaux is to look at the game (either people playing it or a box on the shelf) and become interested. 

the aesthetic of a game is different from its lore. The aesthetic is absolutely a huge draw. But, I was talking about the lore. the fluff. the story.

Quote

I do understand your point and do consider it valid (even if I side with Wyrd on the point, if not some of the choices). But to say that a majority of people would feel as you do and care nothing about the story is stretching it a bit far. I would even guess most people who agree with you care about the story somewhat.

But I understand being bummed. My arguably favorite Master is Lilith. So, here's to waiting for 4E.

I never claimed that *most people* don't care about the story. I never said anything about what other people like. He wanted to push this argument of "well, would you even play without the lore? no you wouldn't. so clearly the lore is the most important aspect". and apart from pissing me off that he's going to put words in my mouth, assume he knows how I would answer his question and trying to answer for me, he's also just wrong.

To be entirely honest i don't even read the lore. I haven't even bought the 5th wave book because the only thing I wanted out of it was the upgrades, which I just bought the upgrade pack for, the stat cards come with the models anyway so the only thing the wave books do for me is help me plan which models to buy.

5 minutes ago, Lalochezia said:

I asked the question and assumed the answer because not caring about the story *at all* is sort of a ridiculous position the vast majority of people would disagree with. But, ok, you do you.

then, respectively, don't ask me a question if you're going to assume the answer and put words in my mouth. If you want my opinion, you're more than free to ask for it. If you want to have a conversation, I am more than happy to have a conversation about the ways in which we agree or disagree on this move on Wyrds part, or anything else, really. But I take exception to this sort of rhetoric.

2 hours ago, melkore said:

I have a fully painted Lynch crew I haven't tried and won't get much use once M3E drops as I'm not a 10T player. I also just painted up a Collodi crew and really like the playstyle.  I get the pain, but the models are not unusable currently or in the future.

If you, or others,  don't think it's as big of an issue as I, and others do. then thats fine. We can disagree on this. It's not like it's an observable fact of the universe. it's all about our perspective on whether or not we think this is a good move on the companies part, or if it is a bad move, how bad of a move is it exactly.

that's all fine. What I take exception to is all the people who are patronizingly dismissing everyone they disagree with, with this "oh, you're just upset", BS. the people saying things like "well, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not best for the company". They don't listen to complaints. they don't actually care about other players. they just want to defend Wyrd. Brand loyalty, I guess?

I mean, lets be real. despite being a NB player, the way it effects me the most is Lilith; i don't have collodi yet, and I never really used Lynch. I'm not hyper competitive at the moment even if I do plan on shooting for that goal, so Lilith isn't even that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. But thats kind of the issue...If you're effected by the change, people dismiss you as "just being upset", if you're not effected by the changes, people act like you don't have a right to disagree with the changes.

Honestly, the only thing I think we can reasonably do is hope that Wyrd either knows what they're doing and is already planning on bringing the masters back in M3E book 2, or they listen to their player base and decide to bring them back, regardless.

that said, like Aquenaton said, I would personally advise against buying anything else until we know what third edition looks like.

its just a shame so many people are trying really hard to disregard genuine complaints about removing masters, or removing factions from masters as "you're just upset", or some other such nonsense.

Just now, Fetid Strumpet said:

I could certainly be wrong, but I don't think NB really needs to worry about losing their models like Illuminated, beckoners and so on. They certainly could, but I think the overlooked thing is that Keywords do not have to be faction specific. Beckoners, Illuminated, Tannen and Graves could easily still all be NB models, but have the Keyword that allows Lynch to pull them into TT. I'm not saying that is the case, but at least from the info available I'd look at keyword hiring as making a faction of every master who then also has access to a mere pool (their faction). I would imagine that's a way for them to make cross faction hiring make more thematic sense.

Based on what we've been told so far, it seems as if there are basically 3 "tiers" of hiring masters.

keyword specific based on master; works more or less like hiring within faction does now; you pay the listed SS cost, you're good to go. and you'll get good synergy and benefits with your master.

versatile: works SIMILAR to keyword, you can hire any versatile master within faction for the listed SS cost, but will probably not have as much synergy with your master's keyword.

faction: you can hire anything from the masters faction, but if it doesn't have a keyword, or versatile, there's some drawback or penalty. it could be a merc fee, it could be something else.

based on that, it seems unlikely that cross-faction keyword would be a thing, it seems like Lynch's keyword is Bliss? So, lets say Graves, Illuminated and Beckoners are still neverborn. they would *need* the Bliss keyword to be hired into Lynch's faction, which means they won't be versatile, so anyone else would have to pay the penalty to get them. Which means Graves, who's a lynch-pin(get it) beater for NB is either unfairly expensive for the entire faction he's actually in, or he's undercosted for Lynch.

1 minute ago, Snowhateswinter said:

Me too. That was awful. 8th had its hiccups but (for armies with Codexes out) its very balanced

isn't it great? when the army you play gets treated like nothing more than an NPC to advance the plot of another army? I'm still totally bitter about that..

1 minute ago, LunarSol said:

I'm pretty happy with the balance in 8th.  It feels like most everyone can make a pretty competitive build if they want to.

yeah, that's something 8th edition did very, very good. 7th might have been better but there was like, what? 2-3 armies that were actually viable competitively? Malifaux as a whole has done a hell of a better job of making the factions balanced - not master to master, but there's never a situation where you lose based on what faction you declare.

46 minutes ago, PuppySwarm said:

Competitively, 7th edition was in a much better state than 8th edition is right now. It's taking a long time to get things right, and M3E will probably suffer similar hiccups.

counter point; I played tyranid in 7th..