whodares

A situation I've recently encountered featured some confusion about Asami's Summoning Trigger "From Me". There does not seem to be a model or range limitation on the Trigger itself. Could I Summon a model and take damage to take Flicker off of a previously summoned model? Situation:: Turn 2: Summon Jorogumo and make sure he stays alive. He charged and is out of 6" of Asami. Turn 3 Summone whatever and hit the Trigger. Take damage and remove Flicker Tokens of the Jorogumo. The exact wording: From Me: This model may suffer any amount of irreducible damage.For each damage this model suffered, discard a Flicker Token from a Summoned model. Reasoning as to why there is confusion: there is no "within range" clause specified and a generic Summoned model requirement allows you to take tokens off of previously symmoned models. I personally think this is the correct interpretation, but my opponent called it bull----- and I ended up not doing to or he would have conceeded right there and then (Jorogumo was kicking his ass pretty hard).

There are actually more models than you might think that can do this. Any model with Leap or something like it is a decent contender. Deploy the model in the corner so the marker can be placed within 3". A marker is a bit over 1" big, so say 4" deep already. Turn 1 drop a marker, walk and Leap. Take Silurid (Mv 5), which gives you 5" move and 6" place, so you get around 12" movement from that. 16" deep already Turn 2 double walk + Leap => you're close enough to the other corner now. You have some movement to spare, so place yourself accordingly for the power play next turn Turn 3 drop a marker, leap and place the second marker => score first VP here Turn 4 double walk + Leap => 10" walk + 6" leap + 1" model base => 21" to the third corner Turn 5 Walk + Leap brings you in range of the corner, so drop your third marker Mv 5 is not really that extraordinary on these types of models. You have First Mate who has 6" for example. Widow Weaver on the other hand actually can't do this solo. Her Place is a bit further, but at the start of the activation. She loses her Place on Turn 1 as there are no web markers yet. I generally run her for this though as she is decently proficient in combar and can protect the markers you drop. Whether your opponent will allow you to do that is another thing I disagree. Plenty of ranged attacks that don't have a gun symbol and your crew is rather good at killing stuff. I feel like Titania's crew can come out ahead when it becomes a brawl. Titania can also place the leader closer by if she hits her Trigger, which might speed up the process and eliminate the need to fight the entire crew for this. If the enemy master is a melee master, then there certainly isn't a problem. If your opponent spreads out, you can win the fight in middle easier than he can. You can also try to only have dying models on the opposing side of the board, meaning deaths don't trigger the negation. If they try to go after your marker, you can send any semi-mobile model after them as they will be moving onto your part of the board which grants you an automatic advantage in actions required. Depends on the board to be honest. If the centerline is clear, you have no problems getting a model to a marker. Spreading out makes it easier to do, but it is not required. What if all markers drop in the center due to RNG being RNG. Sucks to be losing the middle then Depends on how you look at it. If your opponent spreads out with 2 models to run schemes and you build a killcrew to steamroll the rest of his crew, you will have killed almost everything he has in the middle by the end of Turn 3. This still leaves you plenty of time and models to run the schemes you need. I'm from Belgium, which means UTC +1/+2 depending on Daylight Saving Time. Never used vassal though and I prefer to play miniature game on an actual table. I'm very attached to the miniature part of miniature game

Let's actually check which schemes really need you to not bunch up. Detonate Charges: requires enemy interaction, so allows you bunch up Breakthrough: probably needs you to spread out, but can also be done by bunching up and pushing through at thesame spot Harness The Ley Line: You can still keep all models in range of Cruel Disappointment for this Search The Ruins: probably, but really depends on the board. Can go both ways, but in general this will require spreading out Dig Their Graves: enemy interaction and requires scrap/corpse markers. Hold Up Their Forces: enemy interaction Take Prisoner: enemy interaction Power Ritual: can be done by a single mobile scheme runner (think Widow Weaver, Silurids and the like) => main part of your crew can still bunch up Outflank: requires spreading out Assassinate: it's in the name Deliver a Message: enemy interaction Claim Jump: specifically requires you to be near the center Vendetta: Assassinate no a non-leader So out of the 13 schemes, you really only have 2 that always require it (Power Ritual and Outflank) and 2 that might need it (Breakthrough and Search The Ruins) . Chances are therefore decently high that you are actually allowed to stick your entire crew together. Have 1 model on each side of Cruel Disappointment to go interference in case your opponent has 1 of these 4 schemes. The strategies are not really that much of a differentiator in this case. You can easily protect Turf War even from staying in the middle and Plant Explosives can also be done. Corrupted Idols is dependant of how easily you can go to the points. A forest setting for example makes it rather easy and bringing a single model with Leap allows you to cover a massive amount of ground.

I completely agree that it's harder to block different avenues of attack and that each of those separate actions is stronger than the single one of Titania. However there is a lot of strength in simplicity as well. Stopping Titania's attack is already hard enough as is as the only thing stopping it will be standing out of LoS or out of range. Anything else she can just go through and both those options are also not really a viable solution as well. I personally believe it would be better to remove the Injured from Titania and place it in a separate action so she would actually be getting a choice in what she wants to do. I do not fully agree Titania has a harder time getting her Undergrowth markers where she needs them. Within 5" of a model is already good enough if you decide to stone of your first attack for the suit. Else it's 3" within a model's range and that is a pretty large area. Her crew also starts by placing a variable number of markers at the start of the game, which gives a great deal of zone control right from the get-go. Up We Go also has the funny restriction to not work on Flying models and it will only work once per Turn unless you did not use your Charge already. This does assume you are using the Trigger to push away 2" in order to maximize the Burning and Injured in a single attack. If not, then yo can do that 3 times. Getting + by removing her own Burning does combine rather well with the Pyre markers and the timing allows for some fun moments. It will probably cost you a lot more cards to pull this off though as you're not using the Injured you're getting. Your opponents gets a much better chance at defending than against what Titania does as well. In general Titania can also do those things in her Turn, but Kaeris does have the marker positioning a bit easier. Kaeris still has the Burning ticking down, but it's a lot harder for her to actually win the duels to start stacking up those things. This brings us back to the discussion about Fan The Flames. Do you want near-guaranteed damage and lower conditions or do you want guaranteed conditions with probably no damage. For Titania this is easy as she has no choice and actually benefits from spending at least 1 card to get the initial Injured rolling. Kaeris unfortunately does not have this option, meaning every duel will retain thesame difficulty. I agree partially here with you. You can't compare a crew solely on their master's power level and have to take into account the entire crew. This is where Injured is making this harder imo as Injured is pretty much a crew-wide buff for the opponent. Fighting Titania's crew means you have to get close to them, or use Focus or use a ranged attack with a + to attack as everything else will probably fail. Having Concealing Terrain and ignoring the downsides yourself is very powerful. Most of her crew also has a stat 6 attack, which is certainly nothing to scoff at and then they also have Injured, making it extremely hard to resist those stat 6 attacks. Then you realise her crew is also decently resilient via HtW and Cruel Disappointment which starts bringing the question on what the weaknesses are of the crew. I find that the crew has too few weaknesses for what they can do. There are other crews, which are even more ridiculous than Fae right now (cough Swampfiends cough), but that does not stop me from looking at these things. But if you were to compare Kaeris' crew to Titania's crew, you can clearly see the difference in versatility and power level. Titania can do a lot of things at moderate or easy difficulty, while Kaeris has a lot of difficulty on something that isn't just straight-up killing models. Being able to bring a crew into any pool and expect to be at least proficiënt at everything, while other crews are not is something I find problematic. We had this situation in M2E and this is also one of the things they tried to fix in M3E. Perhaps Titania is actually at the power level they want ALL crews to be at and I'm looking at it from a wrong angle. Perhaps Titania won't get nerfed, but other crews will get buffed up to her level.

Wanted to reply to this last night, but real like kind of got in the way. Anyways ... I agree with you that Kaeris can give out the Injured and Burning at a lower cost, but it's very easy and a lot cheaper for the opponent to also block the damage from the duel. For 3 6-7 cards he can complete the Mv duels, which means you probably won't be hitting any of them. The strong part of this action is the fact that you can hit multiple models with it, which gives you a much higher chance to deal the damage. The range of the Action is 8" btw, but I'm guessing you meant 10" as in 8" + 2-ish inch from the 50mm marker. But here's the thing, this is a completely separate action. Her main attack, Conflagration, does not stack the Injured itself. Kaeris is pretty much what Titania should have been: 1 main, damaging + other effects action and 1 action which gives out negative effects. In order to max her damage, she uses Conflagration which has very defined downside to using. If you want cheaper usage or more reliability you will use Fan The Flames. Titania on the other hand has both these actions rolled in a single one. There is no reason to use any action besides Awakened Hunger and her Free Action. Kaeris has a choice between several action with clear, defined advantages and weaknesses. Titania has all rolled into 1 Action. What do you mean with charge and Grab? Is that her melee action with the trigger on it? You are correct that it doesn't scale with Injured (Sz duel), but it also has the very clear disadvantage that you can only do this once per Turn, unless the Terrain is in your favor. Then you are also likely to expose Kaeris herself to danger by bringing her to the frontline and she isn't really that tanky considering she only has stones and Armor +1 keeping her alive.

I'll be showing this to the people in my group. They are probably mixing this rule up a bit and applying it to all terrain.

Just to be clear: there is no additional rule or anything preventing me from placing a model inside the terrain? I could not find it, but certain sources around me are rather ... adamant that this is the case. When I ask for actual rulebook text, they do not answer or tell me to learn to read.

When an Action indicates a model has to be placed into base contact with a marker, what exactly is "base contact"? The reason why I ask this is because I've been receiving mixed signals. Some people say it's the edge of the base, others say it's all ok as long as the bases are physically touching. An example where it would make a massive difference would be Titania's Awakened Hunger. Until recently I thought base-to-base with a terrain marker counted as being "in" that Terrain. Apparantly this was outdated information from a version of the beta and this is no longer the case. Enter Titania, who gets a + to her Awakened Hunger if the target is in Severe Terrain. This attack has a Trigger, Into Thorns, which allows Titania to place the targetted model into base contact with an Underbrush marker. I've looked in the rulebook, but I can't seem to find anything supporting the "edge of base" claim. Page 15, which mentions the rules for place effects also does not have any relevant information regarding this. What exactly are all the rules regarding these place effects? When answering, please provide rulebook page numbers and rulebook text.

YMMV but I've done some rather nasty things when the upgrades got shown. One of it was giving Bettari Masked Agent and keeping her and another beater (Ama No Zako is this case) close together. While she loses the Unnerving Presence as she already has it, she can actually Charge models out of Engagement or into another Engagement. Managed to surprise several people like that by just charging straight though half their crew and dropping both Bettari and Ama next to their master. Needless to say, that did not end well for said master model.

I provided counter-arguments as to why I don't find their response convincing. I'm getting blasted here for not agreeing with them. They are not actually providing a response to my doubts, but just keep rehashing the very thing I challenged. You are correct in that people don't owe me anything. But when you respond to a thread which has doubts about game balance and your answer is something trolly like "git gud", I don't owe you any respect either. Your post has some good points, hence why I liked it. I do have some problems with your suggested solutions. Because you took the time to write such a good post, I want to take my time to write you a proper answer. Unfortunately midnight (my timezone) was not the correct moment to start writing something that lengthy, hence why I refrained from doing that. I still plan on answering with the doubt I have. Kaeris is a very good comparison as she has similar mechanics. You are correct that her damage is higher, but her reliability on getting that damage out is a lot lower. She is also a lot less tanky than Titania. Why a lot less tanky? The differences with Titania on the left and Kaeris on the right. 14 wounds vs 12 7 Wp vs 6 HtW vs Armor +1 (equals out I guess) Cruel Disappointment vs .... nothing Concealing markers vs Pyre markers => Pyre markers are Hazardous, so it can stop aggression when placed correctly. Otherwise they provide no defensive benefit whatsoever. Healing Triggers (1 even has Condition removal) vs ... nothing Calling Titania "slightly" up when it comes to tankiness is an understatement. So now the reliability of getting that damage out. While I agree with you that Kaeris can also give out Injured, it is just a single Injured after all. This gives you an edge when it comes to card usage, but Titania can stack is very high during a single Activation. This means every attack Titania makes will be easier than the previous attack. What this means is that Titania will have to spend less resources in general to get her hits in than Kaeris. Side-note: I know Kaeris has a Trigger which allows you to drop a Pyre marker that also stacks Injured. I'm trying to make a point here about investment vs return, which Titania is extremely good at. However, if you decide to use this Trigger as Kaeris, you actually have a lower damage potential than Titania due to the way Burning works. Another important thing to consider is the fact that Kaeris has a gun symbol on her attack. She can ignore Burning models for Friendly FIre, which is easy enough to do, but she can't ignore actual Terrain. Cover and Concealing (hi Titania) massively drop her potential. So we actually arrive again at thesame situation which Adran also mentioned with his 3 exemplary masters. They have a higher potential, but they have more downsides to their attacks AND require a lot more investment, be it cards or stones, to actually get the most out of it. Meanwhile Titania has a lower damage potential, but is a lot more consistent at pumping it out and requires very few resources for it. That said, I really like your comparison to Kaeris. I like her crew and the tricks they have with Burning to up their damage. Unfortunately the reason why Kaeris is a mid-tier master in her own Faction is because damage is all she has. Her crew does not have any real tricks for scheming, besides removing scheme markers on a couple of Triggers. She reminds me of Guild in M2E and why they weren't considered to be a top Faction. Is this actually viable to do in an early Turn? Considering any LoS passing through Concealing Terrain puts that action on a negative flip, you'd have to either Focus or spend a Stone for a +. If you want to do this Turn 1, you are forced to use a stone as you'd have to do at least a double Walk to get in Range. if you do this Turn 2, your opponent probably has extra Pass tokens from Summoning and can just keep stalling you out. Depending on the Terrain, your opponent does not necessarily have to kill Chompy to stop his damage. Since most of Titania's crew has the thematic Place + damage trigger, which can put Chompy far enough away or behind Blocking Terrain that he needs a Walk before he can reach with a Charge. While I like this suggestion, I am slightly worried about the durability of these models. Rider is not known to be durable at the start of the game and most of those models have a stat 5 defense against a (for the most part) stat 6 attack crew. It also does not feature Condition removal, so I'm guessing your approach here would be some sort of attrition warfare which Summoners have an advantage in? Insidious is durable thanks to Incorporeal, which is pretty good, but eventually works close to thesame as Armor. The weakness of these Abilities being models having high weak damage and hitting medium/severe which is made easier thanks to the Injured stacking. Emissary on the other hand will provide a challenge. But then again, I really like the Emissary and have to try to not use him in every Neverborn crew I make because of his current plug-and-play powerlevel.

So basicly you are saying that you were playing against lesser skilled opponents and won, so certainly there was no problem. That's pretty much what you're saying here, considering Nicodem got a major nerf and even then still remained one of the top masters in his faction. It's like I would be saying Yan Lo in M2E was fine for tourneys because I could beat the extremely casual players with it. Plenty of those options have been "Don't go near her markers Turn 1 and 2", which is not a viable solution for such a problem. If you can't touch half the board for several Turns because otherwise you fall into a trap, there just might be a problem. Other options have been more serious and I have given them feedback on why I do not agree with those options. You know, a discussion. It seems like your idea of a discussion is that there is this magical answer and not being convinced by it means I know nothing and must be a stubborn idiot. I think Titania is too resource-efficient for the amount of power she can bring to the table. Only Adran actually challenged that by providing other alternatives with similar options and I returned my opinion on why I agree/disagree with him with more examples.

I wish these players much succes in their short-sighted world. They are obviously too incompetent to even challenge existing quota and it becomes too hard for them to think outside of the box. I remember people laughing at me when I started talking about Nicodem. I remember people laughing at me on several occasions. In the end it turned out I was actually right in most of those cases, yet all these butthurt monkeys don't like to hear that. Close to nobody has actually stopped and thought about what I was actually saying because "The beta test said no prob so she's ok" followed by "I can beat John Scrub so she must be ok" and eventually a "The top players are not using her, that must mean she's fine". Detach yourself from pre-existing judgement as much as possible and look at all the tools a crew has and how easily they can achieve their winning objectives. But that's probably too hard for many people and instead they like to go with the herd to feel cool and important. Much easier than actually opening your mind and having a discussion.

But according to you it was so obvious that anyone who actually read the card could realise this should have been included. Yet one of the game designers needed 7 weeks of persuasion before finally adding it. This is basicly slandering Mason's game knowledge. Apparantly this oh so obvious fact was not so obvious to one of the game designers. If you see it took 5-ish reworks of said Action to finally reach this eventual form, then yes. They tried a lot of different nuances to that Action and eventually they almost copy-pasted the one I wrote down. Sometimes the details are what makes a massive difference and that's what happened here. Asami herself actually did not really change that much. Her crew-wide Ability got shifted around a bit and she traded the Fast for a Focus. That's basicly it for Asami and the majority of complaints were about her Ability and rocket Jorogumo. A bit later also the everlasting Obsidian Oni, which also got rectified rather fast. Zoraida herself is actually still pretty close to her first iteration and it was mostly a couple of Actions which were shifted around. They also played around with her Swampfiend-targetting thing, but generally she has remained close to thesame. Yan Lo was mainly his Reliquaries and upgrades which got changed around. In the end the Reliquaries were still considered to be crap until they added the Chiaki godmode, which majorly impacted the crew. It would be strange for me to be able to start a discussion in the other groups, consideren you were only allowed to be in 1 group. We seem to have a different memory and perhaps different definitions at what "sparking" a discussion means. One does not necessarily have to be a topic starter to actually get a decent discussion going around a theme. Perhaps the confusion comes from here? You call me a revisionist, yet can't even remember the topic themselves. Finding something underrated also does not mean I don't find it overpowered. What I meant with underrated is that people are massively underselling her and that she is in fact pretty damn good, even without the Emissary. Then they added the Emissary suitless Changeling summoning onthere and she instantly went another tier up. A properly played M2E Titania (with Emissary) was extremely hard to stop, to even say impossible for a lot of masters in M2E, if both opponents were on thesame skill level. Collodi was another master which was on a problematic power level, but he was known to be like that. Titania was underrepresented and underestimated due to her bad Wave 5 reception when these same forums were calling her a bottom 5 master. Lilith I do not agree on to be problematic as her crew had plenty of abusable mechanics. I'm saying I have 5 years of experience playing Malifaux and I'm being pretty much treated as a newbie who doesn't understand shit about this game. I have enough experience to have a proper discussion. If you look at the convo going on between me and Adran and then look at the rest of the people who are so set in stone that I am wrong, it's a difference of night and day. You can't even comprehend the fact that there might just be even a grain of truth in my assumptions and instead resort to attacks on a personal level to try and get a point across. Perhaps you should look at yourself in the mirror and then the discussion we've been having.

100% agree. Schemes now only require 2 Turns to give you full points which allows you to go full kill mode for 3 Turns and still be able to score all Victory Points. Bettari is scary for certain types of models, but most of them don't really fear her that much. She's really made to tear through models that nobody else has a clear solution for, but that means she suffers against the rest. Nothing feels quite as good as getting the Rams Trigger on a Master and then hitting severe. Goodbye half your health. Back when Asami gave out Fast instead of Focus, I actually had Bettari one-Turn a Master because she turned off Resistance Triggers and disabled Soulstones. I did spend 2 stones and a high Ram + 2 lucky severe flips, but I certainly felt the power and threat she has to those types of models. I also try to look for ways to play Bettari aggressively via the Summoning positioning. She can get up to 8" if you summon a 30mm base model, which can open up interesting Charge lanes. Bonus points if she is within 3" of Asami (never happens though) when she charges as she can just place herself then. I've managed to combine her Diving Charge with Asami's Charge Place to go after models which I shouldn't have been able to reach. Bettari is a glass cannon that rewards creative use of Abilities. Sometimes it works and sometimes it ends rather ... miserably. Normally I would say Samurai is being held back by the gun symbol in his ranged attack, but the Free focus pretty much negates that. He already has a built-in + on attack as well, so shooting into a Concealment Engagement still puts you on a straight flip for attack and a + for damage. Samurai are indeed very good right now, but I'm not a fan of the out-of-theme they represent. If I have a viable model in the crew, I would take that model instead of the optimized one. Tournament-wise though, the correct choice would be to bring the optimized model.

Our local players are very casual as Malifaux is mostly not their main game. They play games once in a blue moon and can barely even remember what their cards even do. I was rolling over these guys with M2E Yan Lo before Wave 5 hit, which is saying quite a lot. We have a couple of good players and generally it's just the couple of us at round 2-3 which speed things up. It depends on howmany of us actually come to a tournament as we are all working adults with plently of responsabilities. Last tournament was just me and 1 other good player, which meant we didn't really get to play that much. One game didn't even get to Turn 2... I unfortunately do not own Tanuki, but they are interesting as well. LRM has more healing capabilities, but Tanuki brings the condition removal. The purpose I have for the model is mainly healing and LRM with his Healing Draughts Ability makes him very interesting for this, as well as the card requirement for his heal being a 6 vs Tanuki's 7. Tanuki on the other hand has a Heal+Focus as a Free Action, which makes it extremely potent when you need a mobile healer. It's certainly a toss-up between which one you want to bring as they both have their advantages Low River Monk Passive AOE Healing via Healing Draughts Can store up Chi for a burst heal if required 1 AP 8" Heal (requires a 6 for the TN) which has 2 good Triggers: burst Heal (if you have Chi) or Focus Tanuki 1 AP 6" Condition cleanse (requires a 7) which gives a friendly model Focus +1 0 AP 6" Heal with built-in Focus (requires a 7) a lot more durable than LRM if he does get engaged on Bonus points for being able to drop a scheme marker if you hit his defense Trigger Is actually still decent in combat I would say LRM is better if you 1) don't want to spend cards, 2) expect to need a burst heal and/or 3) can get a lot of value out of Healing Draughts. Tanuki is great if 1you 1) need more of a protection model that can get charged, 2) need Condition removal and/or 3) expect to be moving a lot so you don't have AP for a 1AP Heal. Does that sound like a reasonable comparison?

Regarding Asami vs the rest of Ten Thunders: would you still stand by that evaluation in a tournament setting where you generally reach the end of Turn 3 max? I also enjoy bringing a single LRM that constantly stays with Asami and drops a scheme marker close to every Turn for her to heal up on. I've gotten a lot of extra mileage out of my "From Beyond" thanks to the extra healing he brings.

If Gwyneth was really that obvious, why did I have to keep mentioning it day in/day out for 7 weeks before she actually got it? I was the person who started the initial Lynch debate and his eventual Summon mechanic is pretty close to what I suggested. So yes, for that one I do like to take some part of credit as it's almost a copy-paste of my suggestion. Asami, Yan Lo and Zoraida did not get multiple crew-wide overhauls at all. But once again I was at the forefront of the closed beta arguing for changes. I do take an ever so small part of credit for those, just like many of the others who argued for changes can and should do. I do not take credit for what these masters have eventually become, but I do take credit for sparking the debate around their flaws in Closed Beta. I still stand by my opinion that Titania was very underrated at the end of M2E and that the Emissary was bringing her to the S-tier of masters. Suitless summoning of Changelings on a 7 should not have been introduced and turned Titania's crew in the semi-summoner territory for outactivating opponents. While I do agree that I'm lacking experience against Titania, some things are very easy to see. I've been playing Malifaux for close to 5 years at this point, which does grant me at least some sort of insight on the functioning of a miniature wargame. Right now Titania is not given the attention she requires because people are freaking out about Dreamer and Zoraida to a lesser extent (for good reason). I do not expect those masters to stay in their current form and have already been thinking ahead for a Malifaux in which they are not the obvious strongest masters in the faction. I expect Titania to fill that role after those 2 get hit.

Regarding Asami I was actually suprised you said none of her crew really stand out. I really like Ama no Zako because she is mobile and harder to take down than one might expect. The Flicker mechanic also allows her to take at least 2 duels with a "free" focus without poofing out. The main downside of Ama is that she doesn't have any ranged attacks, but a model should not have all the options available; I think Ama is very well balanced with clear strengths and weaknesses, which already makes me like her even more. I'm also a fan of Bettari as she's the thematic counter to Resistance Trigger masters. Imagine how easy certain would be killed if they can't call a Defense Trigger. Mobility tricks via Summoning (via Asami) allow her to get into the thick of things or out of problematic situations and Diving Charge allows for some rather interesting options as well. While her damage track is not great, Flicker and the rams Triggers can allow you to cheat in that severe if needed. I really like both these models in their current form. From a design standpoint both have clear strengths and weaknesses, which allow for counterplay. This made me rather amazed when you said none of her crew is standing out and you would prefer to bring in Samurai.

Pandora does indeed seem very nice, but I've got 2 questions regarding the text "Choose one of the target's non-Shockwave Attack Actions. This Action gains the effect, cost, and any special restrictions of the chosen Action. Enemy only.". Since it's in italics, it's the "cost" that must always be fulfilled to take this action. I'm guessing this also means Pandora can ignore Concealment as Titania's Awakened Hunger also allows her to ignore that? Since you mentioned she outranges Titania, I can take it that Range is not counted as either effect or special restriction? My local group does not have many Pandora players, so I never really got to play properly against her. While Pandora does seem like a nice counter, we do have to keep it mind this only works if she is directly going for Titania. She can only steal an Action of the model she's actively targetting. I will not digress further on Pandora as I'm only responding to the specific Action you mention here. I could write an essay on what I think is wrong with Zoraida (and her crew) and on howmany levels I think she is overtuned right now. If I'm ever running a dual-master Neverborn list, Zoraida will probably be the second Master I bring. Zoraida is THE master when it comes to opponent disruption as she has both model and hand disruption. Having that Stat 7 Obey on such a range with a Trigger to do a double Obey is massive. By investing a single stone/suited card and 1 AP per Turn, you can effectively shut a model completely down for every Turn you do this. You can even force his own models to kill his own crew. One can argue Zoraida can only have a limited number of high cards in hand, but nothing is stopping you from using her Free Action, Threads of Fate, in the middle of her Activation and refresh her hand with a possibility of getting more severe cards.

I agree with you partially here. I'm not arguing about the win percentage you have here as you've already got those figured out and I trust you on those being correct. I'm arguing on the fact that you can pretty much force anything to go through with minimal card investment and that Titania has an extremly easy time in setting this up. As you said: if your opponent has been holding onto good cards, he can stop you. Do you honestly believe he will not use a couple of those good cards to stop the initial Injured stacking to begin with? Even then, his 13 is only worth around a 7 on your part to even stop. Now let's be more realistic and say he puts you on Injured 3. His 13 is worth your 10. Even if he gets lucky and wins the flip with a non-severe, you can pretty much shut him out with a 7 as chances are very likely he doesn't have anymore severe cards in hand. Even then, trading a 7 for a severe is an extremely good deal. I don't mind the interaction between the Free Action and Awakened Hunger at all. I just think Awakened Hunger has too much going on for it if you hit the Trigger. An action that has this much displacement potential should not be doing (with the Trigger) min 3 damage AND make it easier afterwards to keep doing thesame thing via Injured. You can pretty much turn the Trigger into a separate Action entirely and both Awakened Hunger AND the new Action would still be worth using. That's what I feel is wrong with it. Lucius has a gun symbol, so it actually has counterplay. While he can ignore cover, he can't ignore Concealing, nor can he ignore Friendly Fire. The base damage track is worse and he can only catch up to Titania's medium and severe by using both a stone and a suited card. While it's true that he can use his 3 AP from Turn 1 to shoot at things, he can't keep doing that and the gun symbol provides very clear counterplay to it. He also doesn't have the displacement or the healing/cleanse potential which Titania has on her attack. Basse has a gun symbol as well. He does not have Injured by default as it's a Trigger. If both Basse and Titania hit their Trigger, they actually have thesame single model damage potential, with Basse obviously going for the Injured blasts. His counterplay is once again the gun symbol, which means Concealing, Cover and Friendly Fire ruin his day. He does have Gunfighter, so locking him in melee will not completely hold him back. He does lose the range advantage at that point though, which is something Titania does not need to worry about. Justice can indeed do 3 Injured on a single blast attack with Decay, thesame Action Aeslin has. In order to get 3 Injured, you need to burn a stone and a Suited card though. The attack is also "only" a stat 5, which makes it inherently a lot easier to stop than a stat 6 attack. This attack also has lower damage and no displacement possibilities. Also keep in mind you can stone away the Injured with your prevention flip, while Titania does not allow for this. A damage track of 2/2/3 does allow for the scenario of negation to happen. Once again, I agree partially with you. She's not the best in either damage not Injured spreading. the thing is she does both these thing at thesame time (like Lady J) and still has other effects that can go off at thesame time which are worthy of being a separate Action entirely. Titania is extremely cost efficient and gives a very high reward for a minimal investment.

No, the point I was trying to make is that I was actually correct in my assumption that they were both too strong. Some of the other things I've gotten (with the help of the forum) accomplished was in Closed Beta getting Hamelin in an actual playing state (weak as he may be though now), Lynch rework, Melee attack on Gwyneth, Zoraida rework, Asami rework/changes and Yan Lo rework. Those are recent things that were accomplished because people started to speak about the elephant in the room. So yes, I do think I generally have an opinion that seems to make sense. That doesn't take away that I've missed completely a couple of times, but for the most part I've always been on the right track.

Aren't you the guy who was defending the blatantly OP Nicodem and Sanddeep together with Teddybear? Because I actually got my point there when they nerfed both those masters and made them more managable...

You seem to be of the opinion that I think Zoraida and Dreamer are fine. I also think both those masters should be toned down. Zoraida especially with a 25+" (double) Obey range on a stat 7 AND several ways of managing both you and your opponent's decks. I still believe the beta-testing was flawed from the premise, but I only joined for Closed Beta so I can't speak about Open Beta. CB only changed models that were being played. Several crews got underrepresented and it's showing. Several crews also got several major overhauls, making it highly unmotivating to test them out. I personally think Titania is a very, very strong pick being looked over right now as she has all the tools to be a top master. Just because there are even more broken stuff in the game doesn't mean you can't complain about other broken stuff. I could make an entire post on both Dreamer and Zoraida, explaining why I think they are broken. It's pretty much why I picked Dreamer for this game to begin with. I like his concept and I don't want him to turn out like in M2E where he got nerfed because he was too much free mode. We play with a decent amount of terrain. It's about 33% per Wyrd suggestions. There are many things like trees blocking lanes, meaning it becomes difficult to move in a straight line. For this game, the board had 4 lanes: 2 in the middle separated via a wall and enclosed in crates, and 2 side lanes with some scattered trees/shacks. Yes, I pushed into engagement range without realising and I know that. That still doesn't mean it's right that a 14" engagement range with 2 Place effects is not too strong. Just look at that single action and what power it has. Something is wrong and it should be toned down. I agree with the fact that you always need cards to hit. the thing is that the probability of your opponent getting those cards is pretty close to 0. If you can get your opponent to Injured 3, he will probably have already burned several of his high cards (and you too) to try and stop it. From then on, your medium cards can block out most of his cards. I'm using guaranteed here because you just have to face reality. If you can't win a flip with a 4-5 stat difference, you were just incredibly unlucky. The point is you have to spend pretty close to no cards once you actually get a couple of Injured stacks on your opponent, thus the action nets you: decent damage displacement Injured stacks card advantage (healing if you choose this instead of displacement) Isn't that just a bit too much for a single action to do?

Considering so many people, including people blasting me in this thread, were crying in M2E about alpha strikes becoming too much of a defining factor, I find this rather amusing. I don't think it's right that a model can be taken down by the opposing crew on Turn 1 with said opposing crew barely moving. I was still decently within my own table quarter and Chompy got placed way out of reach of my own crew so I could not help him out anymore. They nerfed Lure from 18" to 12" specifically to stop these types of things, but now a Place effect can do thesame job. That is not right and goes against everything they wanted; Bonus points for the Lure not doing much else, while this Action also deals damage and hands out Injured. The range is 4" lower than Lure, but a Place effect is far more powerful than a Move effect. So you're suggesting I hand my opponent 2-3 VP for free, which is already a boatload of VP. Sounds like a good plan ... You casually mention tabling the opponent by the end of the game, but his entire crew has HtW and they get Cruel Disappointment from Titania. They are also loaded on Concealing and they also have a ton of killing power. They also have Hooded Rider, who becomes a beast from Turn 3 onwards because he can then use his 5 suited Free Action, Attack all enemy models in a 6" range, every single Turn on top of 2 more stat 6 min 3 attacks, which can blast. Unfortunately, you can't stop the opponent from getting at least 3 VP from the strategy as he still has all his killing power intact, of which 2 can blast and he still has Titania as well. One-turning Dreamer also isn't hard as Titania as she has +flips on her attack, going straight through Serence Countenance and she's giving him Injured on every attack. Dreamer still has Protected to keep him safe, but I doubt you can throw away 3 cards to keep that up all the time. As I said previously, I don't think a single Action should have the amount of impact that Titania's Awakened Hunger has. Beater damage, Injured and (Heal+condi cleanse) | Place is a whole lot of things going on for a single AP. She has a second action, meant for when you get into melee. It's far inferior to her Awakened Hunger and will never see play the way it is right now. Move some power from Awakened Hunger to that action, as that one at least requires her to get into danger herself. I was talking about her Awakened Hunger, not The Queen's Command. Awakened Hunger is the Attack Action with way too much power. As mentioned by santaclaws (and in my starting post), you forgot it was Wedge deployment. this makes it a whole lot more tricky. That would work, if only she couldn't use her ranged attack while she was engaged. Unfortunately she still can, so she doesn't have to spend any AP at all on those low stone models. They will kill themselves on Life Leech anyway, so she doesn't care about them at all. I did take a step back and posted this the day after. I read back through all the cards to make sure I wasn't missing anything. Titania has a single action which can solve 99% of the problems a crew can face. I don't like those type of actions, especially when M3E is supposed to take a step back from those types of things. Titania's crew has far too many good things going for them right now, which is also not good.

As mentioned before, I did not rush into her. She placed Chompy twice before he even activated into engagement with her own crew in an unescapable death trap. I know there are more killy masters, but do they do not offer thesame amount of utility, displacement and card control as Titania has. It's perfectly fine for Titania to not kill a model. It will have Injured 2-3 and be easy pickings for whatever comes afterwards. Once you get that first Injured, it becomes trivial to keep stacking it up, unlike the other masters which will always have thesame level of difficulty in hitting those attacks. To add to your example of Lady J: They both have a stat 6 attack, but Lady J can't get a free + to the attack => Titania wins Lady J requires to be within 2", while Titania can safely do this from the back => obvious Titania win Titania's track is 2/4/5 vs Lady J 3/4/5 => Lady J wins if you're hitting minimum damage, else it's a tie Lady J does get a + to damage if she didn't charge => can be great combined with Leap, but getting the extra attack on Leap already requires you to burn a stone Titania can get +1 damage + displacement in a Trigger vs Lady J +1 damage per ram => raw damage = Lady J, but for equal investment Titania actually wins this one Lady J can get an extra attack vs a different model, Titania doesn't have such an option => Lady J wins, but only if there actually is another model within 2" of her to hit Titania's Heal + Condition removal Trigger vs Lady J Stunned Trigger => While Stunned can be great, I would edge it out to Titania as being able to have an offensive Condition removal is massive Lady J does have Aeslin's attack Decay as well, which is massive as it allows you to stack up Injured. The downside is that it's "only" a stat 5 attack and the damage track is a lot lower compared to her Greatsword attack. I can see use for this if the opponent has a blastable model or if you want to get some Injured stacks for other models in your crew. OVERALL I agree with you Lady J has more damage, but it also requires a lot of investment and she has to be in harm's way. She also stays on stat 6, unless you use Decay, which means you will never reach that point of getting "free" attacks. It's much easier to stop Lady J's onslaught of Greatsword attacks than it is to stop Titania's attacks once she gets that first Injured on you. Pure damage potential is hands-down Lady J. If you look at investment per damage Titania will win it very, very hard. I would have actually given 2 free VP if I played conservatively, of which the second is Search The Ruins. When this scheme is in the pool, you just can't afford to let your opponent have near full board control. Games are won after all by VP and giving free VP away is counter-productive to your victory. I know Dreamer's playstyle. Again, I never mentioned I was picking a fight on Turn 1. I was setting up for Turn 2 while still maintaining board presence to not give away a free Search The Ruins VP. Titania is also not afraid to go into duels as she can stack Injured on a model and make any Turn 1-2-3 Lucid Dream burning irrelevant from the cards in her hand. Get 2 Injured on a model with a lower stat and you can guarantee attacks with a 10, unless the Red Joker drops. Actually Titania has a Place effect, which bypasses every solution you just mentioned. Titania also doesn't mind getting 1-2 models in her face as she has a ton of defensive tech AND self-heals, both active and passive. If you throw 2 beaters in her face, chances are she's actually going to kill one of them and severely damage the second before she goes down and this is purely talking about a 1v2 situation. If Titania gets any backup, she will probably straight-up delete one of those beaters per Turn and survive getting 2 beaters in her face for 2 Turns.