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wookiejunior

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  6. Representations of Women in Malifaux

    in Malifaux Discussion

    Posted

    5 hours ago, Ming said:

    Wait, what? First of all, there are only two women out of 7. One is called Lust, but looks like mixture of two real-life violinists with hardly any over-the-top sexualization that would actually fit her name. The other wears a dress with a long skirt. Both have quite average body type. Then we have Wrath and Pride who yet again mimic real-life musicians, both are topless or almost topless with athletic physique. Pride is even supposed to look vain and sexy. And then we have an undead version of Slash, overweighted avatar of Gluttony and Envy who is shadowed by his own transport.

    I wouldn't say either have a particularly 'average' body type. Topless with an athletic physique isn't the same as sexualised for men, and should not be treated as equal.

    3 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

    I think we do, considering that barely even registers as being sexualized, let alone over-sexualized. Is cleavage the bar that gets set?

    Except it isn't just the cleavage. It's the ridiculous body proportions designed to appeal to men. The model looks like it's based off a pin-up girl. 

     

    3 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

     

    bodyholster.thumb.jpg.b07b6250d5d64269ea9807f48c0f2db3.jpg

    You sure about that?

    If she's meant to have a holster like this then that makes more sense. My takeaway from the art was that the holster connected to her clothing. Either way the bare skin underneath is rather impractical with the leather straps. 

    46 minutes ago, Plaag said:

    this is a game and women in it must be beautiful and sexy, why not? with nice boobs and ass

    And this is a good example of the problem. Making your characters defining characteristics on the table be about appealing to male sexual fantasy alienates a rather large proportion of the population; one that is already a rarity in gaming (in part likely due to this). This has been a very real problem in our community before: https://www.vox.com/2016/4/7/11371194/tabletop-harassment-malifaux-controversy

     

     

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    • Agree 2
    • Respectfully Disagree 1

  7. Representations of Women in Malifaux

    in Malifaux Discussion

    Posted

    2 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

    What sculpts that have released recently are examples of ones you'd say are over-sexualized?

    I think you don't need to look any further than alt Pandora. 

     

    1 hour ago, Mycellanious said:

    Why would you say the female gunsmith is over sexualized? 

    For me personally, the biggest problem I had with women in Faux' is that in the early Breachside episode every women was described as "beatiful" when introduced. Like dont tell me that, show me that. But more importantly, the descriptions were very samey, with the first and foremost thing about the women being "she was beautiful." Check how many times that phrase is said lol. I do think they have been getting a lot better at it though!

    I chose Gunsmith because it's a good example of what I am talking about. The male model is dressed very normally and fit for purpose. The female model has had her breasts made the focal point of the model (large breasts and hips, small waist/open clothing/tank top) with a rather impractical holster connected to her boob tube. 

    I agree the writing has got a lot better, and similarly the models have moved away for the most part from a similar glaringly obvious problem. However that doesn't mean there isn't work that can still be done. 

    1 hour ago, solkan said:

    I fear that the original poster has managed to present his, her or their position in an unfortunate and confrontational manner.

     My intention was not to be too confrontational. 

     

    1 hour ago, solkan said:

    I fear that the original poster has managed to present his, her or their position in an unfortunate and confrontational manner.

    It is a common failing in sculpting to produce figures that are only conventionally attractive, especially for women.  Body types for men typically exhibit more variety than body types for women do.

    Increasing diversity in the sculpts will result in an improved product.

    My intention was not to be massively confrontational. Your points it the nail on the head.

    26 minutes ago, solkan said:

    1st edition metal Lady Justice, Puppet Wars Lady Justice, Dead Justice, M2E edition plastic Lady Justice and M2E Plastic Lady Justice is a really interesting comparison over time.  As is things like Taylor or the Viktorias over time.  Or Criid.  

    But the thing is that trying to tell someone that a model is "too sexy" is like trying to tell them that a candy has too much sugar or too much chocolate in it.  There is, objectively speaking, no such thing as too much chocolate.  😇  But there are often situations of too many chocolate candies, and not enough other flavors.

    One interesting thought experiment is "What could a gender swapped Crossroads Seven look like?"

    I agree Wyrd sculpts have gotten better over time for the most part; however the bar started pretty low. 

    The problem I have with what you're saying is that there is such a thing as a model being 'too sexy'. There is not the same cultural problem for the most part with the sexualisation of men. Not to mention 'conventionally attractive' male models can still often be seen to be still within the 'male fantasy' whereas the same does not hold as true for female models. 

    I think the Corssroads 7 is a good example of this; the female models are far more sexualised than their male counterparts. 

    • Like 3
    • Agree 1

  8. Representations of Women in Malifaux

    in Malifaux Discussion

    Posted

    I think there needs to be a serious talk on the representation of women in Malifaux.

     

    In general I think Malifaux does much better than other wargames; there is a strong female presence in the characters, and they are written to be more than side-notes or as foils to the men. Wyrd have also done a lot to improve their scuplts of women since starting. This doesn’t mean there aren’t areas that can be improved though.

     

    My biggest issue comes from with how may of the characters are dressed and sculpted. Beyond ‘in character’ revealing clothes there are many outfits which are designed to enhance sex appeal on characters where this is not part of their background, and where the male version is dressed normally (see gunsmiths for a good example). Moreover many female characters have a body type that I can only describe as ‘male fantasy’. They’re not proportioned well, and the models sexuality seems to be a core facet of the sculpt. I propose that both of these things should change from the Wyrd design team moving forward. Jesse Holliday is a great step in this direction going by her art, and maybe Wyrd are already moving this way (though Pandora goes in the other direction), what I would hate to see is that the render than changes her body type. Wyrd sculpters seem more than capable of making a model apparently female without sticking large breasts and a narrow waist on her.

     

    To answer some common questions/rebuttals I have seen to this suggestion:

    • Why do this?

      I have struggled to get people into the game, especially female friends, due to these sculpts. They appreciate everything else about the game but this oftens winds up being a deal breaker/killing interest. There is no reason to not make this change unless a significant proportion of the community actively want sculpts looking like this. In which case I need to question whether I want to stay in the community.

    • I don’t see a problem with the sculpts.

      That’s great. I’m highlighting that there are people who do. Unless it really pains you to have your women unsexualised, you shouldn’t mind a change.

    • Why can’t they just play with what they like, and I play with what I like?

      Unfortunately you cannot pick what you play against. Additionally it is about the community we want to portray to people. From my experience Malifaux is one of the most open and accepting communities, but if people actively are petitioning for models that look like male fantasies, then this attitude definitely won’t be seen by everyone.

    • Like 2
    • Agree 3
    • Respectfully Disagree 7

  13. Ressers community pool 4: Wedge Recover Evidence!

    in The Resurrectionists

    Posted

    2 hours ago, unti said:

    The last schemes and stones podcast showed how many models there are per faction with ruthless: https://schemesandstones.wordpress.com/2020/07/10/by-the-number-part-2/

    So you should be fine against outcast and neverborn and maybe against bayou and arcarnists because these factions have very few options for ruthless. Against ten thunders, guild and ressers you probably should consider another list....

    Bayou have an upgrade that gives ruthless, so there's choices are actually pretty huge.

  18. UK Nationals - 9/10th November 2019

    in UK

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Clousseau said:

    With the faction books and app now available I'd like to clarify model rules for the event.

    You can take any model now released as long as you have a suitable representative model (no "counts as") and a physical card.

    What counts as released? Is appearing in the book/app enough? Or does Wyrd have to have released the physical model?

    Kamaitachi

    in Ten Thunders

    Posted

    I think putting a range on it, or making once a turn, would remove basically all utility from this model. 

    I agree that he probably needs a complete overhaul, but for the time being stopping the summoning against mindless models seems like the easiest fix for the exploit. 

    • Agree 2
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