Spike0738

19 minutes ago, TacoTruckJohn said:

Q1: I was tossing up between dropping the razorspine and hunter cry (7+1=8) for a waldgeist (6) and either arcane reservoir (2) or imbued protection (2) on either Myranda or the sabertooth. Thoughts?
 

I think it's worth it to have the Razorspine. 

 

Q2: I like the December Acolyte for its smell weakness synergy for when things goes nice a close (like keep him close to the action). Also he shoots stuff and I wanted some form of snipe snipe. Although I am open to suggestions on a better 7SS option. Suggestions?

I can't think of another 7 point SS model that would synergize with this crew and give you that nice "snipe snipe" type ability. I love my Gunsmiths, but I don't see them fitting in here. 

Q3: Do you reckon Myranda worth it in my list? Or does she need imbued protection to keep her kicking long enough to transform into a big beasty (probably a sabertooth or mauler)?

I rather like Myranda. I definitely think you could benefit from Imbued Protection, but chances are she's going to do with that anyways. So just play her the best you can until she can transform. 

Q4: Blessed of December or another sabertooth? 

I'm not a huge fan of Blessed... Mostly because I don't play him enough. I love the Sabertooths, so I'm a little bias here. 

I cannot support a SS pool that doesn't include a December Acolyte with Rasputina. Especially when you don't know what schemes/strats you're pulling. 

All your models and basing are fantastic though. 

Snow Storm - Top purchase... This will increase Rasputina's ability tremendously. Keeping her alive and moving her out of combat #1. 
December Acolytes - Probably equally as important as Snow Storm. They do just about everything you'd want. 
Silent Ones - Very nice to have a heal in the group, while adding another Frozen Heart model. 
Blessed of December - Good dmg output. Great threat range. Will make your opponent activate differently.  

Top 4 purchases for any Rasputina crew... I've never found myself using 3 Acolytes, heck barely ever have I used 2, so you may want to just hop onto Gadzooks gaming and pick up a solo Acolyte for $5... I'm not sure I agree that Acolytes are the best 7ss models in the game, but they are amazing if used properly. Snow Storm is a must, in my opinion. He just adds too much potential and keeps Raspy alive longer. 

A list of all gamin would probaby be extremely ineffective... The most Gamin you'll be able to use is like 11, maybe 12, if you planned on using like zero upgrades or ss for your master... Even 11 Metal Gamin would fall pretty to effective area dmg or something... 

You may be able to get away with swarms of Steam Arachnids with Ramos, but again, not very effective. 

I think this is a very good group of models for a Rasputina crew... I've never once ran her without Frozen Heart models flooding the list. I don't think I've ever even used the Mechanical Rider in a list of hers. She has soo many Frozen Heart options, that really make her 10x more effective.

I think the list you provided pretty much hits every avenue you'll need to take with her.

My problem with The Nothing Beast.... 

The fact that it's not an actual beast and I can't take it with Marcus... haha

I just don't understand how anyone can be upset with these type of posts and bashing Wyrd designers because you didnt get what you wanted...

If you don't like a model, proxy something in or shush... Bashing the company and pretending like they're personally attacking you, is comical and childish. We're lucky they're still even taking the initiative to do these types of sculpts and such. They could be doing much worse things with their time, and things that actually directly target our wallets and offend the Malifaux player base. Look at PP, GW and other manufacturers. Everything they do is a money grab and worse for the gamer. Any remember 40k removing an entire faction? WHFB Nuke? PP moving to all PVC? Constantly releasing bigger more expensive MUST HAVE models and then banning them from Tourney play.

Good work, Wyrd. Keep it up.

1 hour ago, mythicFOX said:

@Spike0738 As always in these things YMMV.

Over many years of active competitive play I've found that if I need a model to work at two ranges most of the time that means it's either the wrong model, or is in the wrong place, or both. In my experience it's better to hire a model that works well up close, or works well at range and to playing them to their strength.   Otherwise I've found I'm hiring a model that's not good at either and muddling through with it.

It's hard to find a situation / board position where the Gunsmith is useless, but I think that just masks it being misplayed. In all the positions where it's not useless another model more suited to the position would be better. 

As an example go through a recent game, and think turn by turn what a Gunsmith did. See if another model could have done the same / better had you hired it instead.

I suppose that's a fair assessment.

I guess I just like having the variety, regardless if it's mediocre, because I can't count on every model that I hired for a specific job is going to make it through the game. Having the versatility seems to change the way my opponent activates and maneuvers. Sometimes my greatest strength in tabletop games is predicting what an opponent will do, and I find that it's my greatest weakness at times, as well. Leaving an open door to multiple avenues leaves the opponent kind of in the dark and often relies on guessing. I'm not quite as hampered by counter plays and defensive moves, if I have other options to do. 

Very interesting take, thanks for sharing. 

11 minutes ago, mythicFOX said:

Gunsmiths; all they do is suck resources into getting a mediocre damage flip.  There is never a situation where they're a better a choice for Kaeris than something else we have access to for 7ss or less.  If you want to shoot things; Acolyte, Trapper, or one Oxfordian Mage (with the bonus tome ward) do this better.  Want to do damage up close or hold ground; Johan, Large Arachnid, output more damage and are just as well protected.  Want to go grab objectives; The Firestarter, and Soulstone Miner are more effective.  

Hmm, I don't necessarily agree, but I suppose I am bias when it comes to the Gunsmiths. 

Being able to attack close combat or ranged, is big for me. Especially against Rezzers or Gremlins that can have a lot of weaker activations, that can scoop up schemes relatively easy. Protecting a scheme becomes much easier with range vs those kind of scheme runners. As well as the ability to go into melee with her attacks, is quite nice. I also like the addition of Smoldering Heart, and the synergy she has with Kaeris' crew burning. The ability to ignore armor, h2k or h2w and the ability to eliminate soul stone usage for damage prevention, are great ways to finish off tough models. Saving the AP from removing the last 2-3 health of a H2K model is fairly useful in the grand scheme of things. I can't tell you how many times I've had Murder Proteje and just cannot get the last damage of a H2K model, or a model is brought to 1 or 2 health because of armor..etc. I almost always bring a Gunsmith for killy schemes, and the Acolyte for others. 

My meta might be different, but I'm not sure I can agree that there is "never" a situation where they are better regardless of your meta... 7ss is a bit much, I agree, I feel they would be much more reasonable at 6ss, but the potential is there which is why I imagine they're 7ss. 

Interesting views though. I've had nothing but success with the Gunsmith, so I can't complain. Very interesting to see someone who doesn't like them, at all. 

21 minutes ago, Breng77 said:

I don't think just like you was a cast action (I could be wrong). I thought I was just a tactical action at which point Cassandra cannot understudy the child for it, thus she cannot steal Kaeris' actions.  She is still good though.

(1) Understudy: This spell, while not technically an Attack Action, allows Cassandra to take a (1) CA Action printed on a friendly non-leader's card, unless the target is a showgirl like Colette. This gives Cassy her ridiculous level of flexibility- if you bring an Oxfordian Mage, you can steal its (1) Elemental Bolt attack. If you bring a Coryphee, you can steal it's (1) Dance Partner. If you bring a Performer, you can use it's (1) Seduction. Cassandra can even target herself with this, allowing her to use her own (1) Actions.

Just Like You! action can be used to cast the Ca actions of his Leader as long as the Action does not name a model [7/1/14 Errata]. All actions taken in this manner suffer -3 Ca, but also gain a +flip to the casting attempt. Any damage dealt by the ability suffers a -flip, however, which makes the Child better at using his Leader's support actions than their damaging actions. Just Like You! can only copy actions with an AP cost of 1, and can only be used once per turn. Note, the Child cannot declare any Triggers that list a model by name on copied Ca actions.

As long as Just Like You! is a Ca action, it would work... I also think it might be just a tactical action, with no Ca associated, though. Regardless, you'll be able to copy the Firestarters burning ability directly, so you wont need to copy Malifaux Child's ability to take the -3Ca. 

3 hours ago, mythicFOX said:

Working from a limited model pool that list looks good to me.  I really like that you're starting the game with eight activations.  Due to the way Burning works activation control is more important to a Kaeris crew than most other crews, and it's already important to them.  Plus any Kaeris list that doesn't have any Gunsmiths in it always get a bonus point from me.

Is there any specific reason you don't like the Gunsmith? or just your personal preference? I feel like having more ranged dmg is better for Kaeris, so she can spread burning more efficiently, the Gunsmith is sturdy enough with H2K and DF triggers to be effective in melee too, while still adding that range potential...

I'm also surprised that no one mentioned the Mechanical Rider in this part of the discussion, she's one of the best purchases for Arcanists IMO. The free Gamin summon from her adds to the activations that this crew gets, as well as provides some great scheme marker potential. Not to mention, most people will be targeting her early, instead of the other important models on the table. 

Kaeris (AR, G&D and BF)
Firestarter (IE) 
Mechanical Rider or Rail Golem (Depending on Strat & Schemes)
Johan
Acolyte or Gunsmith (depending on strat & schemes)
Rail Worker
Arcane Effigy

I've recently grown to like the AE, but I'm not opposed to just using a 5pt model or a 4pt Gamin in it's place. 

4 hours ago, Bengt said:

Yeah, Immunity to a Condition is a specific game term (defined in the box on page 39). An Ability that says you do not take damage from a Condition (e.g. Rail Golem, Fire Gamin) is not the same thing as Immunity.

I did not realize this... I've been playing wrong, and I apologize for the wrong information... Wow, this makes a world of difference, and I feel dumb. lol 

2 hours ago, retnab said:

I'm thinking something more like:

Kaeris (Arcane Reservoir, Blinding Flame, Grab and Drop)

Eternal Flame

Firestarter (Imbued Energies)

Rail Golem

2x December Acolytes

2x Rail Workers

Think that would be a bit better?  My game was against Ironsides so I struggled to set much of anything on fire for most of it, but I feel in most other situations I should be able to get that synergy going much better.

I've personally never gotten the best usage out of 2 December Acolytes in anything but a Rasputina list, but they're not a bad choice for Kaeris by any means. I would personally go with 1 Acolyte and 1 Gunsmith for a good mix of board control and dmg output. The ++ to all flips against burning stuff is a good way to cycle through the deck, and also get any trigger you could want with the Gunsmith. 

If you ever get Johan, you might want to think about dropping either Arcane Resevoir or Eternal Flame with a Rail Worker to squeeze him in. He has condition removal and heal flips, while being a pretty damn good bruiser. 
 

49 minutes ago, mythicFOX said:

@Spike0738 - The Eternal Flame can heal the Rail Golem.

 

I think the EF is a genuine choice for the Kaeris player.  The construct healing is effective and easy to achieve. A 2ss activation is always good news, especially given our faction's love of big models, and it will be worth it's points even if it doesn't achieve much more than throwing out a couple of heals and help with activation control.

Now granted it's not as a strong a choice in a lot of situations as the Malifaux Child will be, but I do think there's a genuine choice to be made between them when list building.

 

As I've stated before, I understand the benefits of it. I simply don't feel that it works effectively enough for me. I feel that I have to plan an entire list around the damn totem, or else the enemy is going to use it against me when it comes to the EF. I've never been able to keep up with Kaeris or Firestarter. 

Can you imagine if you get your flaming up on Rail Golem, and you get pushed or pulled into the Eternal Flame that makes all models lose immunity to burning? All of a sudden that 1/2/3 heal flip isn't worth it and your own model became your worst enemy. The potential negatives are too much for me to say it's a "good" 2ss activation. I would rather have IE on another model or something, and not have the potential negatives on the board. 

Just my personal opinion. I'm glad people have had success with it. Any Arcanist success is a good thing. 

22 minutes ago, Skull on a chair said:

I think that sounds like a bad analogy Spike. Shang is her totem, it only goes with her, they are bonded in a manner and not just ships passing in the night. It is not that Shang does not resemble the theme, my argument/question is that Shang is attached (in a manner that all totems are attached or may only be taken by their respective master) to Misaki. Being Last Blossom would be irrelevant if Shang could be taken solo but it is not.

I can think of probably 1,000,000 characters in games that share a story with someone and work together in the game, that in no way relate to each other's background... That's how I've always viewed it. Shang works for Misaki, it's chosen to only work with her. It doesn't need to be born into Last Blossom or work for them in this Fictional world to do so. You're thinking only about the game, when their is an entire world of Malifaux lore out there. 

Aside from the balancing factors involved in a lot of their decisions, it doesn't make sense that a flaming creature would be apart of Last Blossom. Yes, it would be convenient and it would make sense if they just created a totem that fit the theme to be able to do it, but it makes sense both in thematic sense and in balancing sense. 

15 minutes ago, Skull on a chair said:

Why not? My understanding is you can't take totems without their master, so taking Misaki for her Outcast faction would not prevent you from taking Shang and Misaki could still take the Smoke & Shadow UG. That scenario would be beneficial.

He's Dual Faction, so he can be used in either 10T or Outcasts with Misaki... Being Last Blossom is irrelevant to being able to take him with Misaki. 

I would love for all models to have the characteristic that I want them to have, but it's not the case unfortunately... Shang doesn't even remotely resemble Last Blossom's theme, so I'm not surprised he's got a different Characteristic. 

Try to think of it as sometimes characters paths cross, and they just work together, regardless if they're from the same background or not.  

My feelings are so incredibly mixed with the Effigy, that I don't see myself purchasing it right now, unfortunately....

Positives:
 - You can heal for every Ram that is "flipped"
 - With H2K, 1 armor, and the ability to force things to make a WP duel or attack him, is pretty good when trying to keep important models alive longer.
 - Very respectable dmg on his Ml attack (3/4/7)
 - Accomplice is always good to have, just in case... Especially when you could activate a leader and make use of that flipping Rams heals.

Negatives:
- NOT a Gremlin or Pig, so it doesn't benefit from ANY ability that any Gremlin gives off. This is the biggest problem I have with it.
- The 6" range on the Hit Me! ability is rather disadvantageous.
- The Ml is low enough, that it is rather unreliable, unless you're spending a good card in your hand to complete it. 

Final Thoughts: For 4ss it's a strong model, but it's hard to take him when he doesn't use the synergy of the crew at all... Taking an extra Bayou Gremlin or Totem and still have a pt or 2 for an upgrade is almost always an equally good, if not better choice from the minimal amount of stuff I've seen. I would assume that the Effigy is less of "take this model against XYZ opponent" and more of "I made a list to properly utilize his talents for the schemes I have."... 4ss is rather expensive when it comes to Gremlin models. When you have access to cheap Totems and utilize so many cheap upgrades, it's hard for me to justify those points if it's not directly benefiting from the other things on the board and running around solo. 

29 minutes ago, Breng77 said:

Yeah I have a hard time declaring a 2 point model the worst totem I the game.

 

a 2 point activation is rarely bad.  That said I never really take totems  very often with most masters.

Hmm, Idk... I use totems often enough. Especially with Ironsides, Ramos and Rasputina. I also find Ophelia's Young Lacroix and Som'er's Skeeters to be very useful. Certainly, I don't always do it, but I think EF is the only one that I actively avoid using at all costs. 

In his list above, Gunsmiths and Rail Workers wont benefit from Eternal Flame at all, and he's using G&D so the Rail Golem can't even heal with the totem.

I just find the Eternal Flame completely useless, and can easily work against you if you don't put in effort to create a list that it can work with... I'd rather put Imbued Energies or another 2pt upgrade on someone and just leave it out.

A major problem with Eternal Flame is that it has no offensive capabilities if it can't keep up with Firestarter or Kaeris... So it's activation is fairly predictable and the model itself can be easily ignored. With no charge, and no Ml action it can't even keep someone engaged with that +3 armor. I also prefer to use G&D for scheme stuff, so I'm not benefiting at all from the lack of immunity to burning. I would rather take IE on something for kill schemes, since the instant burning can be done with Rail Workers too, while keeping the burning stat on the model.   

I mean, I'm sure it's not the actual worst in the game, but it definitely is for me personally. I find it hard to take an insignificant model, that can actualyl work against me if I'm not planning for it. I don't like planning around an insignificant totem. 

2 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

I don't know. It faces some pretty tough competition from Poltergeist, Governor's Proxy and Mouse...

At least Mouse has a pull and a potential heal... Not to mention he's got H2K.

At the very best case scenario, Eternal Flame is bottom 3. lol

It seems that Wyrd releases all box-sets to LGS first, for the first month of release. Then after that, it becomes available on the online stores. So if something releases in December, expect it to be available online in January. 

If your LGS makes their orders online for a lot of their product, instead of going directly through a distributor, than they may be waiting like the rest of the online shoppers. One of the LGS around me does this, and it's annoying. The store isn't big enough to purchase in bulk from any reasonable source, so the owner orders stuff online from like Miniature Market and carries a small stock in store.

On 12/26/2015 at 10:17 AM, retnab said:

I haven't seen this mentioned much at all but does anyone recommend using the (0) Truth In Flame much? I was thinking it'd be very easy to use turns 1 and 2 with the Rail Golem using (0) Vent Boiler before Kaeris activates for a stronger hand, has anyone tried this?

 

I'm thinking specifically of trying it in a crew like:

Kaeris (Arcane Reservoir, Blinding Flame, G&D)

Eternal Flame

Firestarter (Imbued Energies)

Rail Golem

2x Gunsmiths

2x Rail Workers

Seems like a decent mix of defense and offense, with a bit of ranged in there too.

Eternal Flame is the worst totem in the game, IMO... I've used it once and will probably never ever use it again.

I personally wouldn't use 2x Gunsmiths, only because Johan or a December Acolyte would probably be much more effective for various schemes than a 2nd gunsmith would be. 

1 hour ago, Sybarite said:

I think I would rather take Johana over the effigy with Kaeris

Isn't the effigy only 4 points? I'm confused how sacrificing a 4pt model in your list will make room for Johana/Johan. It would seem like you would replace a Gamin or 5pt model for the Effigy instead... 

I agree that Johan is a much better model overall, but a 4pt Effigy is a damn good buy for Kaeris, with the condition removal AND +1 Burning or discarding. Especially if you have a Mechanical Rider in the list to summon Fire Gamin. 

I find myself using far less upgrades with a Kaeris crew, to make up the difference in points, but that's just personal preference. The only problem I have with the Effigy is the 2" condition removal is very situational, since most of my Kaeris crews are fairly mobile and not sticking within 2" of anything friendly. The 8" +1 burning or Discard boost is fantastic though... The ability to use Immolate and still add an additional +1, is damn good. 

13 hours ago, Sordid Strumpet said:

I wasn't personally insulted (insulting was the wrong word, my apologies - I've fixed my post). Just a little grumpy because after quite a few games with her I still feel like I've only scratched the surface of what she can do. I think it is perhaps a little deceiving to call her easy to play in a sense that she's easy to pick up for a beginner, simply because there is such a huge amount of planning and knowledge required that you'd be hard pressed to get it all going while learning the mechanics of the game itself. I agree that she's easy to play in a sense once you get your head around her due to her flexibility and being able to very reliably accomplish certain schemes and strats without leaving your opponent a lot of opportunity to counter.

I think this hits the nail on the head... "Easy", for a new player, is not "I pick this model up and she's amazing"... "Easy" is being able to learn the game of Malifaux and enjoy it, without having to work hard to understand all the mechanics and such. It can be very frustrating to be learning the game with a unique master like Colette, and then going to another master and being like "Wtf, this is weird. I don't understand this."... That is what happened to me, with a very poor player trying to introduce me to the game with their very complicated favorite models.  

I could write about 4-5 lists that could place Top 5 at any Tournament I've ever been to, when in the right hands. That doesn't make it easy for a new player to learn the game and utilize the models in the list to their full potential. 

When a new player says easy. The first thing we should do, is hand them a BB Gun of a list and introduce them to the game of Malifaux in the easiest way, with the least amount of tricks. We should not hand them an M60 (IMO: Colette) and tell them that it's easy to shoot, just pull the trigger. For everyone non-military, I apologize if you don't get the reference. lol. 

With that said, I think everyone on here has proven that we all have different opinions based on our location and local meta. Glad we're able to at least hold a decent conversation and help this new player out, regardless of the disagreements. 

I'm going to refrain from commenting about the blatant mis-representation of Rasputina's and Colette's crew, and just focus on helping the new player. I'll summarize the points for you, so you have an easier time picking your stuff. 

Rasputina - Easy master to learn the game with. Fantastic caster. Useless in combat. Competitive. 

- What you'll probably want to buy: Snow Storm (Releases soon), Blessed of December (Releases soon), December Acolytes and Silent Ones (Releases soon)... These extra models will run you about $75.

-Acolytes, Blessed and Silent Ones can be and are used in other master's lists, so purchasing them isn't a bad thing or a "waste". Especially the Acolytes, since they seem to always make an appearance with multiple Arcanist masters in every tournament I've been to. You'll probably purchase the Acolytes regardless of which master you start with, at some point.

Ramos - Relatively easy master. Good Summoner. Not a great dmg dealer himself. Best Arcanist starter box. Competitive. Will take a little extra time to get used to some special rules and features of the models for a beginner. You have some playing experience, so maybe it wont be too much of an issue for you. 

-What you'll probably want to buy: Mechanical Rider and extra Spiders to summon with Ramos. This might cost you $50. You might also want to purchase a type of Gamin to summon with the Mech Rider, but you certainly don't have to for her to be effective. 

- Howard Langston, Joss and Mechanical Rider can and will be used with every master at some point. They are all very powerful and very optimal choices for certain schemes and strategies. 

Either box is certainly a good pick. Glad to have you apart of the Arcanist team!!!

2 hours ago, Ludvig said:

She's easier than Ironsides and Kaeris. 

She poops out scheme markers enough for all the marker based schemes and prompts Langston or Joss to kill every enemy remotely close to her. The performers can paralyze any bothersome targets with high defence.

Colette is, in no way, easier or more straight forward than Ironsides or Kaeris... Understanding her special abilities, the crew scheme markers, and the special rules flooded throughout her crew, are very difficult for a new player to grasp and utilize effectively. She's fun, a unique theme and interesting, but easy and straight forward, her crew is not... She's also fairly unforgiving... You move her wrong one turn, she won't have range with her triggers and dies.  

At least with Ironsides or Kaeris, you have 1 goal (attack things / put burning on them). Sure, you have to really adjust and play a unique way to get the most out of them, but they are VERY straight forward in terms of just learning the game. They don't have a bunch of crazy rules, triggers...etc 

I will also agree with the person who says that Raspy's box is a little light. The difference is that I'm not thinking competitively. None of these boxes are going to be competitive out of the shrink wrap. They all need boosts and purchases. Rasputina's box is by far a straight forward and easy to learn box. Ramos' box is fantastic and has 2 fantastic models in Joss and Howard Langston. I still feel like Raspy is easier to learn, but Ramos' box is amazing.

Which one is easier to learn and to master? Rasputina or Ramos? - I believe that Rasputina is easier to learn on, IMO... She has far less special rules than almost every other Arcanist master. Ramos isn't necessarily hard, but I just feel Raspy is easier. Although killing isn't the name of the game (you have to complete schemes and strategies), you'd probably have more fun whipping up on models with Howard and Joss while you learned to complete objectives effectively. 

You can't go wrong with Ramos or Raspy.