AoS

I don't "want to", I really believe it is. I play arcanist, I'm not affected in game.

In fact I notice a thing about the faq example. In the faq they could say that violation of magic happens first because reduce to 0 wd is before killed, but no, and in both cases the summoning goes first. But instead they say that when a model is killed is the same timing that when reduce to 0 wounds and then they look into the general timing. I think that they talk generally enough to think that we can apply it in our situación.

That may be correct, and there is the missunderstood. I still want an oficial clarification saying that I cannot aply the faq situation to this.

Mate you score vp at the end of the turn, in that moment leve is not killed, and you let the marker before the model is removed from playa as killed. Solkan faq cuestión is not like that, but anyway, in the izamu card don't say before being killed, and un the other is explained, maybe if it is not explained "before it is killed" we have to guess that it is.

I mean the moment in which viktoria has the chance to use her ability Izamu is not sacrificed, I don't think that is legal to avoid the timing order just because the second ability in the timing is in contradiction, (which i think is not), with the first.

That's not how we say it works. At the moment in which viktoria reduce him to 0 wounds he is killed, (I'm gonna avoid the timing discusion), so viktoria resolve her ability because Izamu is not sacrificed yet, and then Izamu activate his ability and sacrifice himself, and this is when the model do not count as killed, but not before. There is no problem on this first the model is killed and then the model is sacrificed, he is not killed and sacrificed at the same time un any moment, al legal I think.

Explosive demise happens when a model is killed and has the same timing as the Sonia hability which is when reduce to 0 wounds in the faq question. Now you have viky who activate her hability the first time she kill, and izamu which activate his ability when reducing to 0 wounds. Don't know if you can apply the faq, but is the same scene.

You are gonna need to get faqed the hole game... Ok, just in the case in which both habilities would have the same timing, (imagine that is in a faq) is fine the rest of the reasonning?

Where is that in the rulebook? Is right, you can't being killed and sacrificed because when you are sacrificed you don't count as killed. But that don't means that you can't sacrifice a killed model... And once you sacrificed him he don't count as killed anymore.

Nice explanation I don't see the problem in kill a model and then sacrifice him. If you sacrifice a killed model, it just doesn't count as killed anymore. (After being sacrificed)

You cannot extrapolate, so this habilities only have the same timing in that case, I'm sorry, but that sounds stupid to me, and apologizeme for that word.

Sybelle is bad example, I thought it was sacrificed. Sorry about. Thanks Rob to understand my point, I'm bad at talking english.

Canyadigit, I'm agree with you. Where is the disagree? I'm not sure if I express myself good enouhg. Sybelle example: she attacks a model and activates the trigger which sacrifice the model. She reduce the model to 0 wounds during step 5, so during step 5 the model is killed after step 5 the trigger is resolved and the model is sacrificed. The model was killed during step 5 and sacrificed after step 5. The model does not count as killed after step 5. Do you guys have any problemas with this?

I can accept the timing question, (maybe), but if a model cannot be killed and sacrificed is because if it is sacrificed then the model cannot count as killed. My thougt is not wrong in the way that you can kill izamu reducing him at 0 wounds, and then he is sacrificed, in fact sybelle with her upgrade sacrifice you after damaging this happens after step 5, so if she reduce to 0 wounds she kills you during step 5 and then sacrifice you aplying the trigger.

Well, I thought it is the same timing because the faq answer. Q: If a model with the Burning Condition and the Explosive Demise Ability is killed within range of Sonnia’s Violation of Magic and she chooses to summon a Witching Stalker, is the Witchling Stalker summoned before or after the Explosive Demise Ability occurs? A: Violation of Magic occurs “when the target is reduced to 0 Wounds.” When a model is reduced to 0 Wounds it is “immediately killed” (Core Rulebook pg. 51) so Violation of Magic and Explosive Demise have the same timing point. In this instance, see the General Timing rules on pg. 46 of the Core Rulebook: I don't found where is that you can't sacrifice a killed model if you kill and sacrifice a model you only sacrifice that model, because it do not count as killed.

I don't see the problem, as I explained, at resolve as I did, but the other option is don't follow the rule book and don't resolve the viky's hability, to avoid the conflicto with the next hability ... Think that would need a faq answer

Izamu do not count as killed because he is sacrificed before being remove. But he is killed before he use his hability Same reasoning about leve.

Maybe I'm wrong, but if I follow the faq both habilities have the same timing. And then I look the general timing and viky have to resolve her hability first. And I don't found anything to contradict this. Only thing is that you can't sacrifice a killed model, but I don'found something like that in the rulebook. Just : "A model sacrificed do not count as killed", and I tried to explain that before.

The thing is that you can't sacrifice Izamu before he is reduces to 0 wounds, (killed). A model sacrificed does not count as killed, but that do not means that you cannot sacrificed a killed model, and once you sacrifice him, he is not counting as killed. So in this point viky could kill izamu, activate the hability and then izamu activate his hability and sacrifice himself. So once izamu activates his hability he do not count as killed, but he can be killed before that.

If a model which is sacrificed do not count as killed, it means that the model will be removed from play as sacrificated, but does not mean that viky reduce him to 0 wounds, (killed him), before he is sacrificed, means that once he is sacrificed he is not count as killed by the viky. But before he is sacrificed viky counted as she kill him.

When a modelo is reduces to 0 wounds it is killed, (not in the other case) I like the way that you want to play it, but I'm not sure without a clarificación.

Reduces to 0 wd have the same timing that being killed, i understand that from the faq cuestión. So if both habilities have the same timing izamu cannot being sacrificed before so in that moment he is just killed, (reduced to 0 wd), and for the general timing viky activate the hability first. Dont see the problems in a model which sacrifice herself once he is being killed

Izamu is not killed after he activates the hability but not before, and before izamu can sacrifice herself viky is resolving her hability. Timing, to me, would be: 1 viki "kills" izamu 2 viky resolve her hability 3 izamu resolve the hability, and after that is when he is not being killed by viky, but not before.

But if both habilities have the same timing, for the general timing the acting model habilities would resolve it first. So victoria can activate her hability before izamu. So when victoria activate the hability she counts as she made the kill, she complete her hability and then izamu activate his hability and then is when victoria does not count as having the kill, but not before. Thats my point.

Thanks for the faq answer, so victoria would heal?