MrLlaine

45 minutes ago, retnab said:

What if we did something like "If this model is the Leader, it may attack Equipment upgrades to non-Beast models."

My suggestion was to obtain an effect similar to this. 

This kind of discussion is exactly why I made the post in the first place.

I live reasoning about mechanics and trying to understand how things are balanced by developers and what could be done to make them better design-wise.

I understand I may have underestimated how much value the action itself can generate.

I still think it's useful to compare it to other abilities even if they belong to different masters. I believe it's a useful thing because in the end it's all part of the same game.

It shouldn't by all means be the only way to look at abilities but I feel it's a good starting point and it helps putting the rest of the card in perspective.

I have no problem admitting that I don't have the chance to playtest the beta. 

That's why I posted the whole reasoning process instead of giving only my conclusions. I didn't want to let it just be and maybe end up playing something that could have been better when official release will come.

On the other hand do you think that allowing for the upgrades to be given to minion and non-minion, non-master, non-beast models (in addition to freikorps) would be too much?

I understand that the ability to keep the upgrades helps the freikorpsmen have an edge on the competion (and I like it, I really like the whole crew theme and aesthetics).

Hi there, 

I've been reading a lot of the posts on M3E masters balancing requests lately and I find it really interesting to try and analyze the issue from a design standpoint.

I wanted to share with you what I think about the whole Von Schill Load Up action change.

I think we could safely  compare the action with Obey style abilities and Chimerancy from Marcus and try to understand if Load Up is balanced in it's current iteration.

The foundation of my reasoning is this: Malifaux, as most wargames, is based on the allocation and use of the different resources available to the players, in no particular order : 
-cards
-Actions
-Space
-Soulstones

all of these are obviously tied to the units available to the player on the board after the hiring phase and most importantly are available only in a limited number.

Obey-style abilities, Load up and Chimerancy use one of the respective master's action for the current activation to benefit other crew members.

Then we  have the need for the appropriate card to hit the required TN and that may come from the deck or hand depending on the situation.

In both cases we could say these abilities consume pretty much the same amount of these resources.

Where the real differences lie is in what a player get out of them.

-Obey-likes trade a Master's action for a non master's one (with different additional limitations depending on the master) it basically doesn't consume an action, it starts off downgrading one (a non-master's action is worth less in a vacuum) but it picks up value by allowing another model to do more that what it can normally do and by the difference of space (it allows to apply an additionl action in a specific place, different each time, than where the master is) if used properly is often just a sidegrade without resource or value loss.

-Chimerancy uses a Master's action to upgrade a non-master. The upgrade gives passive abilities to the target and/or triggers to the target's actions. It consumes a unit of the corresponding resources to generate value over the course of the rest of the game.It consumes a unit of the corresponding resources over time and through the use of the upgraded models and their actions.

-Load UP uses a Master's action to upgrade a non-master. The upgrades give new actions to the target and sometimes a passive ability. It consumes a unit of the corresponding resources and, here's the catch, it needs the use of a target's action to start generating value. And it's (most of the time) one use only, when it isn't  it costs another resource in the form of a freikorpsman wound. It consumes a unit of the corresponding resources that generates value only once most of the time or costs even more resources. Another really important thing, imo, is that these are additional actions, not improvements to the existing ones, choosing them over the basic ones generates a virtual loss of resources in the opportunity cost of doing it (rocket boots being the outlier).

So, to recap my analysis:

Obey-style: costs 1 master's action, generates instant value, doesn't cost additional resources, the immediate gain helps in avoid waste of resources, often yealds a net gain (not taking into account how the generated action actually goes, this applies to Chimerancy and Load up too)

Chimerancy: costs 1 master's action, generates value over time, enhances it's target abilities/survivability.

Load up: costs 1 master's action, generates value ONCE, to stick around it costs wounds, gives additional choices without enhancing the existing actions available to the target.

All of the above are signature abilities that strongly influence how the master plays on the table and what they bring for their crew even if they obviously do other things.

To the above points we should add the fact that in most cases these abilities have restrictions that force the hand of the player when hiring, and while that's good, since M3E is all about thematic crews, one of the point of versatile and OoK hiring is having a little wiggle room. In this insance Von Schill seems to get the short end of the stick again.

All in all, from my analysis it seems that Von Schill ability is now sub par.
I understand the concerns regarding his effectiveness as a secondary master but I think the nerf went a little too far.
Changing Load up limitations to: Friendly non-Beast or Freikorps models only could really solve the issue. (the Freikorps part is still there to allow him loading up himself)

These Upgrades are all about versatility and careful application (being one-use only) restricting too much their targets really hurts Von Schill's playability imho.

Most of all I'd like to know what you think of my analysis and if I missed something obvious.

I have more to say on his use as a secondary master and on what he brings for his cost in those situations but it's a really long post as is already.
I hope I managed to get my idead across, English is not my first language

it seems to be region locked in Italy too, can't download I have a Huawei P9 lite

thank you, I forgot the timer was there XD

how much do we have to wait? I'm pretty hyped

I too hope the game will be playable on a smaller surface, 4x6 is really huge and impractical, plus I resized my gaming table to 4x4 to accomodate both WM and malifaux, and I'm not going to go back the bigger one, it eats way too much space around the table. 

43 minutes ago, Tawg said:

Is he a Dark Elf now?  That blade looks pretty wicked.

So it seems  that's a whF dark elves corsair blade and the handle of the gun comes from the same kit, I cut of the front part of the crossbow and added the barrels from and empire handgun. I wanted to convey the single-shot duelling pistol feel

and here's my conversion of francisco, I love the character and the rules, but I thing the model is bad, he himself is a good sculpt but the weapons are something I wouldn't have the guts to sell, the blade seems to come straight out of a bad cartoon, it's nothing more than a piece of metal with a (too) short handle and a bad edge, and the gun... my god, no trigger, no firing mechanism, no drum, no nothing and it's even undersized, he basically holds a piece of tubing with a bayonet. I beleive he's supposed to point it at the enemies and hope they die on they're own, maybe for the sheer fear it causes...




anyway, sorry for the rant and the bad syntax, it was only to explain why I ended up doing this

now I liek him, there's just some cleanup needed, mainly a little of green stuff here and there.

C&C are welcome as always 

now, since I can't focus on only one faction in any game I play, AND Malifaux is relatively cheap (if confronted with games like WM/H or the warhammer brans) I obviously buy things from every faction and even paint some of them .

here's the alternate sculpt of nicodem from the first edition metal range

sorry for the crappy pictures but that's all I can do with my phone 

 

On 4/5/2016 at 7:56 PM, Tawg said:

That is really freaking cool.

Reminds me of the Enchantment Creatures from MtG they did a while back, they looked all "cosmic-y" too, I love the style.

I was going to ask why they looked normal-ish from one side, but the explanation is perfect.  I love the idea. 

thank you very much, I know what ou are talking about but I didn't think about it until you pointed it out ^^.
 

Love them, I like the colors very much too!

I like the whole lot...a lot , the bases are really nice too, the only thing I'll do is adding a third color for contrast on the brass arachnid, just like you did with the electrical creation, with only 2 colors it seems like it's unfinished. the green-blue metallics on the little ones is really really nice!

36 minutes ago, Apache said:

Cosmic tedy is awesome!

thank you! I'm glad you like it ^^ it's the very first time I try something like that

So, I got interested in Malifaux during the first edition, my girlfriend really likes this sort of atmosphere and she brought me in, then m2e came and lots of plastic resculpt with it, I bought into ten thunders (misaki), guild (perdita, lady J and sonnia) and added something to both factions, recently I got hooked by neverborn, I always end up playing the humans in pretty much every game, usually the "good" ones so I said to myself that I could paint and play the bad guys for once, so I bought the dreamer crew box, teddy and got the widow weaver from my best friend as a gift.  I thought alot about how to paint the crew, and end up with an idea I liked.
Here are the first 2 minis I finished, I still have to base them and the daydream has to be touched up because I was reckless with transport and got chipped on the front of the horns.

the Idea is that they don't belong to this plane of reality, they come from the void, they adopt forms that the human mind can understand to interact and deceive, but is only a mask they wear and not what they'r made of, so I painted like space everything you can't see looking directly at the minis from the front, and the eyes to give away their unearthliness.

I hope you like them, any C&C are welcome, as well as ideas for the bases.
 

Hi there, I really like that monochromatic madness!

 what I'd do is this:
-enhance the contrast between the scithy claw and the the arm it's attached to, and do the same thing on the other spikes it has all over it's body. I really like the result you achieved with the teeth, they stand out really well

-paint a nice contrasting base (dark warm colors maybe?) 

 

OK I lurked the forums for a long time  , but I want to try to actually do something for someone so count me in PM inbound