wopr1986

It could be that model is killed at the same time it takes damage. That would mean that black blood and into the fray would be resolved at the same time, in which case the acting model's ability would take priority.

If they are resolved at the same time the defenders trigger happens first so black blood before fray. 99% sure on that but at work so can't reference the page number

There does seem to be a missing "step" or ambiguity around being reduced to zero and removing from play. The more times I think it through and try to explain my interpretations the more confused I get, so I give up. Unless a card specifically states otherwise(e.g Bette noir) or there is clarification they die at zero no possible stalkers.

Against Hamlin or nico or any clump of models it's too strong without it as is, even with htk giving burning on fist attack killing on second and dropping 2 cards and 2 stones for 3 stalkers is insane.

Also this is a lesson in using "cheat jpegs" my opponent had a trigger timings one that was too brief so for the sake of game speed we just made a ruling (the wrong one I now realise). Thanks to this topic I found where to look in the book specifically (thanks again) but I can see how  the same questions coming up can be frustrating but so could a 30 page FAQ.

Wow, hadn't noticed that there was a debate concerning that, but that's half the fun playing boardgames   

 

All the info I can find regardin damage flips is on page 46, am I missing something else related? What is this step 5? I find 5 steps for duels but the damage flip is not a duel, just a flip right?

 

I'm 100% on board with the fact that before the model is removed burning is applied but surely you apply all the damage, use soulstones for prevention and after that determine triggers that depend on damaging? Otherwise you could never use soulstones to prevent killing damage and attackers would also get to use "after damaging"-triggers against someone who prevented all the damage using a soulstone?

 

It has to do at least 1 damage so the SS prevention does still work and step 5 is "resolving" aka making the damage flip or any other resulting flips needed, then even if at 0 wounds they are still not removed from play. Then you apply burning (still at zero) then you check violations conditions are met, model has been reduced to zero wounds with burning pay your 2 cards or SS and bam new stalker for sonnia. The more I play/learn her the more awesome she becomes.

 

 

No. This is incorrect. Sonnia CAN get a Stalker in this situation. Also. Can this be added to the FAQ already, it come up once a month.

 

Sorry I didn't see it in the forums or I wouldn't have dragged it up again. They should also clear up that flame walls are markers not terrain

I don't have the rule book to hand (and its already been spotted once today...), but I believe general timing on page 36(?) talks about abilities and triggers that occur "after damaging". And these will happen before models are removed from play.So the model damaged by a stalker (or Sonnia with her trigger) will be reduced to 0, but before they are removed from play, the "after damaging" addition of Burning will occur. SO when they are removed, they are on fire, and can be turned into stalkers.

Just checked the small rulebook pg 26 "after damaging- these effects happen after step 5 if the target suffers 1 or more damage. These effects are resolved before the damaged model is removed". So it does work for both stalkers and sonnia you gain the condition whilst at zero wounds and violation of magic wants an enemy model to be reduced to zero wounds and have burning. Thanks everyone for the replies

I'm confused as to when exactly a model is removed. There may be a mistake on pull my finger for sonnia too.. so as I'm sure you've guessed by now this is too do with summoning stalkers.

On PMF (tactics and tips section) it says sonnias burning trigger on flameburst can let you use violation of magic to summon a stalker but the trigger states that after damaging all models gain burning +1. So is the enemy model damaged to 0 wounds but still in play then burning applies then it would be removed?

Same for witchling stalkers "all models damaged by this model gain the burning +1 condition so if I hit for lethal is the model still in play at 0 wounds then gets burning then is removed?

We had a game on Tuesday where this came up and I just said it doesn't work that way for the sake of time (I was sonnia so it was to my detriment) but some clarity would be sweet.

I've only played against her at 50ss and she's easy enough to deal with but at 35 I dunno maybe criid with counterspell dashell a sarge for + on wp and 2 riflemen and have a 14" death bubble that's hard to lure. Maybe lady J who does whatever she wants and dashell guild sergeant and 2 riflemen providing cover fire?

In both cases the sarge is good for moving markers out of the "safe zone" and the + wp flip is nice, dashell makes the rifle men very strong and then it's down to a master of preference criid seems the best choice at a glance

Samael is also awesome with or without sonnia more of a glass cannon for sure but if it's burning and he hits it in the face it's probably going to die but that's for another topic.

I find it near impossible to field an executioner, because for 9ss you way too many good alternatives when playing guild. Every time I think I have figured out a way to use executioner I find myself asking: Why not bring Judge/Francisco/Samael/Sidir/Ryle/Peacekeeper/Pale Rider/Dashel/anything instead?

True there are better alternatives but I like to mix it up and Have fun especially with models that don't see play or are "inferior". If I was to ever attend a tournament sure but gaming with friends I want to see their face when the pot bellied pain train goes to town XD

 

I like your thinking! I invisage something along these lines 

 

Lucas McCabe -- 7 Pool

 +Elixir of Life [2]

 +Glowing Sabre [2]

 +Strangemetal Shirt [1]

 

Executioner [9] - This guy takes the Elixir

 +Lead Lined Coat [2]

Executioner [9] - This guy takes the Shirt

Francisco Ortega [8]

 +Wade In [1]

Sidir Alchibal [9]

 +By Your Side [1]

 +Promises [1]

 

Yeah I basically built that list but didn't include by your side or LLC and took badge of speed and hermanos de armas (this crew needs more speed imo.) And at 50ss if you have a lowish pool you can get wiggle room for luna and a hound or two for dedicated schemes a stalker for condition removal or sergeant to help with wp shenanigans.

I cant imagine a strat/scheme set up where two would really work, too much of a good thing ya know?

At best I still think it's with Lucas as they can both have the armour and swap the regen back and forth so maybe if reckoning is the strategy and if the schemes aren't marker dependant, It would be a very elite crew though. Sidir with promises, frank with wade in and the executioners and your about spent after McCabe's upgrades.

 

 

3/2=1.5..........that's 2 damage.

Yes you always round up so if you did 3 damage to incorporeal you round it up and then reduce so 3 becomes 1 as 2 damage is reduced at least that's how my group has always played it.

Just checked the FAQ I apologize good sir

If my opponent pumped up an Executioner and shot him down the field into my lines early game I would be thanking him.

The sooner I can eliminate him is one less thing to worry about.

He shines mid-late game when hands & stones are being burned through quicker, meaning you are more likely to utilize his

auto-kill trigger on a master or some other big nasty.

Wouldn't the sabre be wasted on him?.. his auto-kill trigger is amazing and his weak damage is 4 straight off the bat.

(The sabre could be on a hound, a 3 point model, and do the same job).

His weak is 3? Which against incorporeal is 1 and if something is hard to kill it doesn't matter how hard you hit, anything with armour 2 becomes 1 damage.....just checked the card didn't realise he had crit baked in.....Yeah sabre would probably be a waste. I think elixir and badge of speed for him and the shirt for something else would work fine.

As for rushing him up it depends on the strat/schemes and he would be activating last first turn Lucas just before him and acting first on 2nd turn with regen armour and control hand he could do a lot giving the riflemen plenty of time to set up. Luna runs interception on anything coming their way as she is ignored for randomised shooting.

If they gang up on the executioner Lucas goes nuts with his net gun or can charge in to assist.

Just a rough game plan I'd like to try it this eve but my mate wants to try his new Hamlin crew out so it's probably time to bust out sonnia, depends how badly I want to get destroyed.

It would NOT stack.

LLC only grants Armor +1 when a model doesn't possess the Armor Ability. Strangemetal Shirt hands out the Armor Ability. LLC will turn off when the Exe is under the effects of SMS and will turn back on when SMS is not on or the Exe is no longer in the Aura.

There are no timing rules that apply to this. Just because you applied LLC first doesn't remove the conditional text on LLC.

Note, if SMS gave the Armor Condition, LLC would stack since LLC only cares about the Armor Ability.

That's what I thought, I guess Dashel will have to hold the shirt and give all my lovely riflemen armour +1.

The executioner can steam off with LLC, Elixir and the sabre which will give him so many more options for valid targets..

just occured that would only work if lucas could hold 4 upgrades dammit

May already be answered in rules forum but it's on topic so I Gotta ask, as the idea of regen+2 armour+2 executioner in your face turn 1 sounds fun!

Does lead lined coat work with stranglement shirt? LLC only gives you armour if you don't already have it so would they cancel each other out or stack?

Also you can only score a maximum of 3VP from each individual scheme.

Necromany! Bored at work and noticed no one mentioned McCabe. If you like stacking upgrades he can be regen2 armour2 and nimble whilst being pushed up to 12" first turn.

Also Sidir with promises can make him move and hit like a freight train.

Hi everyone.

I've played only 4 games, 2 of the games against my friend who is also new.

I've played Nicodem every time and we both seem to feel he's over powered? Actually anyone who can summon a lot of extra models seems to have a huge advantage?

Why is noone complaining about summoning 20+ SS worth of models in a 35 SS or 50 SS game?

I mean: Ress. models don't seem to be inferior to other factions, which means those extra models are just a big advatage, aren't they?

Also Ramos, who summoned 3 mech spiders every turn, for 5 turns, that seem a bit off balance? 15 spiders

What are your thoughts? Anyone here with many games who can tell me why summoning Masters isn't way better than non-summoners? I realize my experience with the world's best game is limited but how can it not be crazy to summon 2 rogue necromancies to your crew, for free?

Anyone with AOE will usually do, had a game as sonnia vs Nico and killed all his summons as soon as they came in with extra collateral damage to toshiro. However he did keep summoning flesh constructs which I tried to tell him was a bad idea ca9 vs wp2 whilst she had papa loco's hold this was brutal.

Another game with the ortegas had francisco jump in and kill a weakened Mortimer and flurry nico to death perdita charged izamu ignoring armour so he folded in one activation, then papa loco went boom boom BOOM followed by Santiago with tormenta de plomo, after the dust had settled there was nothing left but corpse counters

At least 6" from your deployment zone means just that, the markers need to be at least 6" away from your deployment zone. This stops models simply holing up in you dz and dropping markers.

There is no reason a model can't cover 2 markers but scheme markers can only be used for 1 scheme, so you couldn't use 2 markers for protect territory AND breakthrough. At the end of the game you need to declare which marker you are using for each scheme.

I played a game last week an my opponent swore you could do this (use one marker for protect and breakthrough) now I'm going to have to look it up when I get home

With Colette they can all have 3 ap and she can make them take schemes also just having them in pairs to buddy heal is more than enough thanks to the statue conditio n. I don't agree with the OP as I think they are very manageable just annoying as hell if your opponent knows how to use them.

Ah I see, May help if tour a master or tricks for 3 AP maybe even companion but I think the issue is if you let your opponent have a go without killing one outright it'll be back at full health or close by your next activation.

Focus and shoot straight flips and cheating in damage if you can get 4 damage on the first hit you can take them with any two attacks.

You realise silent ones have 6 wounds right? So you have to get 5 damage on the first hit to double tap them with anything that targets df.

(Haven't watched the rep yet) So I'm guessing it's lady J with the judge? Maybe Francisco?

A focused shot from the Judges long arm pistol cheating severe damage with the critical trigger is one dead silent one.

Lady J with her great sword and Francisco with his duelling sword can also both one shot a silent one as well so what exactly is the problem?

They only have 3 DF so should be pretty easy to hit and get a straight flip (especially if focused or without a charge from lady J) of course you can always target their willpower or use a model that ignores defensive triggers (not a guild player so don't know what options there are)

That is a great rule of thumb! Definitely one to remember lol

Great Scott! Thanks for clearing that up doc, it makes a huge difference as I can now kill them with my ressers without a hanged. He's not going to be happy first I tell him he can't assimilate Ramos summon with Lazarus and now his silent ones are not invincible.