wopr1986

I've played against misaki a fair bit and her with bisento misdirection and recalled training plus Otto with the teleport upgrade (can't remember the name) and recalled training works well as a kill squad then a pair of tengus for scheme running and either katana snipers or thunder brothers to make up the model count works quite well. I've also heard sensei yu can be real nasty with her

I've played against yan lo a couple of times. The only time of note he was with toshiro Izamu chikai and I think yin And a nurse. the only model I managed to kill was toshiro and that was due to poor placement from my opponent, aside from that everything was basically unkillable and my stuff began to fold quickly under the adversary condition. The all spirits take 1ap is really fantastic. Luckily for me it was squatters rights with some marker dependant schemes and I picked McCabe so I barely won but had it been reckoning with killy schemes I would have been decimated.

Charge is an action that births two attacks. That first attack is the action you get the to all duels and damage flips. Then 2nd attack isn't affected anymore.

Well I played that wrong. I thought if you used channel on the charge it would help for maybe a terrifying check and nothing else then you channel for each individual attack.

I love the Hoff but using him made my dry erase marker run out so he's off the table till I get a new one. waaay to much book keeping for counters and die alone

Depending on schemes and strategy, I'd probably run something like this;

Justice (Badge of Office, Last Stand)

Judge (Unrelenting Leader)

Francisco Ortega (Hermanos de Armas, Wade In)

Hunter

Death Marshal

Death Marshal

Brutal Effigy

Between Judge and Francisco, you can get Justice 10" up the board before she activates. That gives her a monstrous threat range. Francisco is here as he's also a criminally underrated melee beatstick, and using Unrelenting Leader he can get additional attacks.

Use terrain to your advantage. Justice doesn't need to see a target to charge it, and with Last Stand she's Unimpeded. This means she can stand the other side of a forest or lake and charge across it with no penalty. That catches people out, even at high tournament level!

Badge of Office lets you reduce a hit down to 1 damage, so even if your opponent has just Red Jokered for 13 with a Vik, pop the badge and it's 1. Between that, Justice's 0 action heal and Brutal Effigy's condition letting her heal for damage, she can be very tough to take out.

Hunters are good for picking on lone targets and dragging them out of position whilst slowing them up. Funny when you drag a model into range of a big wooden box...

Executioners sadly are utter garbage. I've tried to make them work but they're just too slow and too fragile to do what they're supposed to do. Equally I don't rate Scales. Does the square root of naff all due to being too damn slow by half.

To beat a summoner, identify what they need to summon and then clear it. For example, Nicodem runs off corpse markers, usually generated by Mortimer. Target number one therefore is Mortimer - if you can eliminate him or stop him being useful turn 2 or 3, you're going to have an easier time of it. Ramos likes Scrap markers, so look at removing those if at all possible (I believe Justice has a 1 action Ca for that, so might be worth looking at the Malifaux Child to do it for her).

Ulix needs 50mm Pigs, so that's what you go after. Never mind Ulix himself, send Justice after Old Major and his piggy friends. Yes, they're tough, but Justice can easily get up to min damage 5, Francisco to 4, and Judge can generate a ridiculous number of attacks. That will produce a lot of cooling bacon! Once the 50mm pigs are gone then you just have to mop up what's left without worrying about new things appearing.

I know, easier said than done, but have faith. It's a very big sword!

Mostly This! Much more thorough than my last post also who on earth underestimates Frank as a beatstick!?

I would suggest apply pressure early and fast, the judge has a pull or even better papa loco with his upgrade. Turn 1 papa gives justice hold this, moves and pulls then she triple walks and that's on the deployment 1-6. You may be able to walk and charge on the others.

Then target the non summons pieces, stone for riposte on the backlash as locos positive negates the negative making them cheatable and never back off. They will probably either use their summmons to target lady J leaving you free to get schemes and strats with your crew and if he moves his support pieces back that's even better for you. If he has a pigapult too then R.I.P just my 2 cents.

I think I prefer shadows embrace? the one that makes you basically regen off poison.

As for toshiro I tried him once or twice and don't like him with nico imo it's too much of a good thing.

Very solid.

It mirrors a lot of what you already stated to be fair XD.

How do you find necrotic king? I usually have love thy master as well and find summoning a punk then giving it and Izamu fast followed by companion then move and flurry or charge with an ap to spare works much better.

I personally never hire punks or canine remanins. My typical list's involve Izamu with an aura, a nurse and Mortimer with corpse bloat. Nico always has maniacal laugh and undertaker the 3rd varies but I tend to avoid necrotic king. With a starting cache of 7 stones that usually leaves me 15 stones to play with that are used for schemes and strat models.

Mr kittens I am at work so phoning this one in.

The implication I was attempting to make was that I was the scrub, for you see I have only played one game with him so far so I am the "noob". I started my post saying this in the expectations that someone with far more skill and knowledge of said master would come along and be able to explain far better than I (in case you missed it "I the scrub") ever could or outright say I'm mistaken in his awesomeness.

As you misinterpreted my meaning that I am the scrub all I can do is say sorry good sir and state that this is a forum where people voice their own opinions and experiences and discuss them...Which is exactly what I did. You stated he seems lackluster I gave my limited experience with him a quick go with examples of how I found him to be anything but lackluster.

In the case of mcabe being better (I love using Lucas btw) he can give a model reactivate and nimble and a push or two sure, but he can't make 3 guild rifle men take 3 extra focused shots a turn nor can he easily kill a model of his own without wasting ap, he also doesn't have a melee buff aura the ability to "regain" soulstones,shoot whilst engaged or non randomising the list can go on but I should do some work.

Disclaimer all things said by wopr1986 are his own opinion. He maintains the right to voice his opinions and be wrong or right and if you knew him he will always insult himself as self depreciation is an easy form of humour and a good scapegoat for being wrong. He will only show disrespect when he is on the receiving end first and always values the opinions of others.

I'm... not sure what Lucius adds to the Guild's repertoire that other Masters don't.  I haven't played him, certainly, but looking him over confuses me.  If you want a Master that helps churn out Scheme Markers, McMourning is great, and also is a melee beast, and gives access to arguably the best support minion in the game, Nurses.  If you want someone to administer extra AP, take McCabe, who's also got a plethora of stymying and buffing talents at his disposal.  Both of these other Masters seem to do Lucius' schtick more consistently, easier, with a better Plan B (combat or evasion), with fewer demands.

 

I started following this thread, hoping to see something come to light in the discussion to prompt me to give him a shot, but I just don't see it.  What tempts people back to our resident bureaucrat that they don't also find in our other Masters, but better?

 

The musings of a Scrub..

 

He brings a lot if your a control player imo. So many versatile options and I always felt in total control of the pace of the game but I've only used him once as I've only just put him together.

 

I had a game against Nico on reckoning and ruined him on VP, some fun plays:

 

First turn: walk 3 times help the riflemen get into the centre of the board in good position with dashell a sarg and a lawyer.( maybe not fun but dam handy)

 

second turn lots of rifleman shots killing two necro punks a summoned (1/2 wounds) student of viscera and weakening Toshiro. (lucius paced back and forth giving an extra shot or two and helped a guard move up).

 

Third turn: I used the lawyer to slow another full wound (this time) student of viscera, he flew the vulture in to negate it (a bad play but he was on the back foot).

I used secret assets to kill the vulture and quickly swapped places with an engaged rifleman so he was free to shoot, then I issued a command paying the stone for focus trigger using devil's deal killing another engaged riflemen at 3 wounds.

The rifleman I killed denied his reckoning the one I obeyed took that focused shot at a 3 wound Toshiro to score my VP the most fun of plays

All the while a pair of guild guard dropped markers for ALITS and I distracted with the third riflemen that was tied up with a flesh construct.

 

He conceded at the end of turn 4 after I used secret assets to bring a newly summoned punk zombie down to 1 wound, swapped the rifleman that was distracting the construct, issued an order to the rifleman to kill the punk (again stoning for focused trigger this time killing my 2 wound lawyer) then I distracted said construct again.

I then companioned the riflemen to shoot another minion (I forget which a bell maybe..?) that dashell would finish off next activation and my remaining guild guard finished placing my 4th ALITS marker. 

 

I know I missed some other plays but think I got all of that right, maybe I need to pen down notes in game and try posting some batreps up.

 

To sum it up sure other masters excel at other things. Lucas with plant explosives and deliver a message is GG or perdita with make them suffer and assassinate.

However I think if breakthrough and protect territory come up, Lucius is the much better pick (both on placing markers and using the man himself to negate a few of theirs with legalese).

 

When your opponent see's the strategy and schemes he already knows your guild so can hedge against certain masters. If you bring Lucius all his counter plans go out the window and I don't think he would perform any less than the "best" master for the job.

 

Back on the topic. In the one game I've played I did get in a good position to make 3 attacks on the student using secret objectives but "shooting" out of combat or into one without randomising with a SH of 6 and weak damage of 3 (joint highest with the clockwork seeker? Including the ram you need for the TN) was the better play at the time I still had 5-6 SS in the pool and an upgrade slot free so it might? have been worth taking. I will have to give it a try some time.

 

TL:DR Lucius is the man! Not sure about secret objectives seems a bit too situational.

My first instinct is to say nico and mc mourning. Nico takes the upgrade that lets friendly models heal from poision giving a potential regen 2 to all models then nico gives haste to heavy hitters like Izamu rogue necro or go full buffer with toshiro and necrotic king, that with two sommoners sounds insane.

My other theory is McCabe and anyone from the guild probably perdita or Hoffman depending on how the passing out of upgrades is worded, either way the aura from stranglement shirt with plating on Howard Langston also sounds insane an Lucas can run schemes all day debuffing your opponents etc.

There are certainly better options though I'm not a neverborn player but lucius and Pandora is it? with all that controlling ability with the lowering of will power would make me want to concede as soon as I saw them deployed ugh.

Arcane resovoir, under pressure and elictric summon. Joss killing the summoned creation for two scrap is nice or use it to move Ramos about with magnetism the next turn (and the scrap it creates upfield when it dies). I have never bothered with bleeding edge tech as I always take a very elite Ramos crew and imbued protection/energies is my go to upgrade on mechanical rider, joss or howard. Just my 2 cents

If my opponent argued that Flying and Incorporeal creatures couldn't pass over Ice Pillars because they aren't terrain, I'd point out that the Impassible trait reads "Models cannot enter Impassable areas of terrain". Since the markers aren't terrain, the area they occupy is not an impassible area of terrain, and every model can move through them freely.

 I agree with godlyness another example, as models have 'blocking/impassable' terrain trait's then you could just stand two waldegeist next to each other or any other model to gain a 4" melee range... By your veiw that works and I'll go out on a limb and say that 99% of players would disagree with that.

I see it as one of two things: When the cards where written they forgot to add the "treat this marker as terrain" sentence or they are not meant to be treated as terrain, so until a FAQ states otherwise they are not terrain by the rules written in the ability.

Don't forget if the hound starts the first activation near Luna and/or a Guild Sergeant it gets a bonus to its walk for the turn. You can speed them up that way.

Excellent point also if the opponent has placed a scheme marker and is near it, you could get even farther for 1ap by charging and then still deliver a message or curse etc. I do like the idea now of on turn two loaning back the upgrades off Luna and putting them on a hound.

Still tempted to do it with the hound as luna with warning bark and pack leader to me (with my limited knowledge mind) seems to important to keep. I know I lose 4-6" in movement, but I can just do it again next turn with another hound.

Should be fine with a hound but as of yet Luna hasn't died for me as I have used the last ap to move out of sight or into cover but fortune favours the bold! Either way post how it goes with the hound, will be interesting to see how it turns out.

Edit:

In chess terms I see Luna as the queen she is not to be thrown away needlessy but you do want to use her offensively, this is why out activating is huge imo.

Also I'm willing to stone turn two for initiative, then either Luna pulls back or thanks to her no randomized in shooting and positives to Lucas' net gun the mass slow is much easier.

Either way for a 4ss model after scheme placement and helping slow maybe 2/3 models she has more than made up her cost by that point so if they waste what few AP they have left killing her instead of playing for strat or scheme all the better.

As I said it's not essential to out activate but knowing where all the opposing models will be is useful, they have no chance to remove schemes and/or kill luna plus turn 2 onwards Lucas and Sidir focus on giving out mass slow. It adds to the make them concede plan:

 

" you have how many more models to activate? My team all has slow.. you already have 3-4vp... I concede"

That is usually how the sentence goes. maybe with a F**king McCabe added in for good measure.

 

Also helps that all the models are fantastic in the 3-5 ss range 

Sorry my bad.

ENinja basically nailed it!

Activate Lucas second to last use, cast reactivate on Luna from the badge of speed then use his zero with tome trigger(stone or card for suit) to push her 8" give her nimble and any other upgrade you want. If you have out activated you opponent (not essential but useful) Luna can then get two activations starting 8" from your deployment with nimble and that 7" walk. Then you can usually score 3 VP for plant explosives and maybe hand someone a cursed object or deliver a message etc. Even when you know it's coming it's really hard to play around due to Luna's range not to mention the mass of cheap minions that can be sacrificial scheme runners too.

I have played a lot of Lucas lately and he really excels at schemes that can score early (plant explosives, deliver a message etc as opposed to bodyguard or entourage).

I have had my opponent concede at the end of turn two/beginning of turn three every game as at the end of turn one I have between 3-6 vp and turn two and three Lucas and Sidir hand out the massive amounts of slow and/or kill something very important to their crew (I almost feel bad...almost XD). In short: the Luna bomb is amazing, focus on the right schemes, don't care about killing anything unless you absolutely have too and try to take enough models to out activate your opponent so the luna bomb can go off reliably. My 2 cents on the subject.

We thought as much. I just like to double check, as for being randomised that didn't even occur to us lol. It was fine Sidir took it like a champ as that was my original plan. (it only came up after I realised I could end in engagement) I just had to stop him getting a corpse marker so he couldn't get away. Thanks for the reply and reasoning behind it.

So this came up last night in a game (I've searched the first few pages of by your side and Sidir to no avail).

Seamus used back alley and ended up a couple of inches from my guild rifleman, then focused and targeted a shot at him (so no shots have actually been fired yet).

Sidir was 5" away and used by your side to be placed in base contact, he is now also engaged with seamus.

Now I know los and range are ignored but you can't shoot whilst engaged so does The shot still happen or is it now an illegal action as he's engaged?

Just an fyi I let him have the shot as when something like this comes up I always rule against my favor then come here for sage like wisdom.

The rules are a permissive rules set. They tell you what you are able to do, not what you can't. The rules don't allow for constant reshuffling of your deck.

Now if its just a nervous or comforting habit, which we all have, I'd bring a different deck of cards, totally different from his play deck, and offer them to the player to shuffle instead. Unless they are superstitious, or are trying to manipulate the deck for advantage, it shouldn't matter what deck they shuffle if they feel they need to.

Exactly what I was thinking takes any possible ambiguity out of the situation.

Obvious solution, Ramos is OP.

Don't forget perdita too, he was most upset when papa loco went boom boom BOOM followed by Santiago with tormenta de plomo killing all his zombies. If I remember right only Mortimer was left on the table as Frank the tank with some high rams in hand and soulstones for rams killed nico in one activation too.

Still on the topic at hand. Ramos is as OP as all the other masters. In my opinion it really comes down too knowledge and skill of the player with a little bit of luck from the deck.

I run a similar list to the OP when I bust out papa ramo (which is very rare) but swap Lazarus for mechanical rider and drop bleeding edge tech. He is a very good master but when my group of friends started playing I started with nico and perdita and never had any issues beating ramos. In fact the reason I got Ramos was a mate calling nico OP so we switched masters for a few games and I still beat the stuffing out of him, think it's about 6-0 in game difference.

Guild Crew - 50 - Scrap

Perdita Ortega -- 5 Pool

+Trick Shooting [2]

Enslaved Nephilim [3]

Francisco Ortega [8]

+Wade In [1]

Nino Ortega [7]

+Hair Trigger [1]

Papa Loco [7]

Santiago Ortega [7]

+Tormenta de Plomo [1]

Pistolero De Latigo [5]

Pistolero De Latigo [5]

The pistoleros could be guild hounds for more upgrades or larger SS cache if needed.

That is a fairly balanced list I tend to take but without knowing schems/strats it's hard to say.