Carcosa

currently I am running Lucius without a totem.  Scribe doesnt inspire me, and the primoridal magic.....yes its generally good, but he doesnt need the scheme marker as he'll get so many for free - and i'd rather keep a couple of "real" stones in the cache instead.

mind you, my Lucius build is using several shifting loyalties models and may be a bit different to many.

Lets be clear here, the topic is -promises- as an upgrade being better with guild or 10T, not what I think of the guild -or- 10T.

So, how do you come to the hypothesis that Promises is better in Guild or 10T? I'm also still interested how you come to the conclusion that McCabe is "simply" better in 10T.

 

Both me and Math reacted to your statement since it looked like you were saying he wasn't that good in Guild. Your exact words were "McCabe being simply -better- in 10T" which implies not that he is super in both factions but you personally prefer TT.

 No, it implies that McCabe is simply -better- in 10T, it in no way says that he is bad in the guild. What you choose to read into that is beyond my control.

 

The above emphasis and phrasing makes it sound like you have tried everything and have empirical evidence that he is always better in any matchup in TT. I mentioned the pain train in guild which I've enjoyed playing when the scheme pool is kill-heavy and the strat doesn't mind you bunching up. I'm not at all saying he is better or worse in any faction, I think he is simply super strong in both and would have a hard time saying he is "simply - better -" in one of them. This also depends heavily on the board and who you are facing as usual in this game.

Explained already.

The pain train has looked little diffrent for me at times but you basically take McCabe with promises, badge of speed and the saber. Use a couple of heavy hitters like Francisco, Ryle, Judge, Peacekeeper etc. and sprinkle in some minions or another semi-hard model. Nice minions are wardens or death marshals and then Luna with a canine buddy or two if you have something that needs doing scheme-wise. I have also used Papa Loco which makes things beatiful! I use him to give "hold this" to the model with the saber or one of the big guys. A warden can swing the saber with 3/5/6 dmg and  to damage flips, add reactivate if you need to. You can also use the  to damage and saber on one of the bigger guys with flurry if you need to. If you are ballsy and don't bury Loco he can give his buff to the same two targets you throw the saber around to and the saber has a big jump between weak and moderate so it benefits a lot from that. 

Wardens, Ryle, peacekeepers, CONSTRUCTS......... All of these work well with Hoffman, arguably better than any other Guild leader with constructs, and ALSO the one leader I did not say a word about in a negative way. I'm sorry but I have seen more VP's scored by a Hoffman version of your list than a McCabe version, hence, -better-. Remember, I said, and you quoted, he is better in 10T, not he is incapable, or bad as Guild, that conclusion you came to all on your own.

A lot of the crew doesn't need to bother with the saber at all since they have stellar damage by themselves so they just stick around for the plus flips and get pushed into flurry range. Francisco can really make McCabe into a roadblock so that he can tie up enemy models and prevent them from doing their thing. With Df 9 Wp 8, even most masters will struggle to hit (don't forget to make him defensive with Luna). Francisco can be squishy but can also really lock stuff down with his  to melee if the enemy is heavily invested in that.

So the argument is "but Fransisco"??

Playing him exclusively as Guild and not having any TT players with a lot of experience nearby I'm sure I haven't seen an optimal TT build and I'm positive he can do a lot of nasty things in TT too. I'm just not sure he is so bad in Guild that he is an argument for the Guild being the worst faction in the game as you made him out to be.

I said that the guild was the test bed for other abilities, and other crews and factions have -better versions- of those abilities, barring a few specific cases. I -personally- see the guild as the most balanced of the factions, and in case anyone missed it, my favourite faction. I see them and probably the neverborn as the baseline by which I judge other abilities. I never said that he, or the guild were "bad", I said other crews do things "better".

Edit: Forgot about companioning, it can sometimes tip you over the edge if an enemy has a model that can heal and needs to be dealt with in one activation. A chain of Ryle, McCabe or Peacekeeper followed by Francisco can often kill stuff your opponent were hoping to keep alive before they get to activate and mitigate it. TT can use the hounds but I'm not sure they have many models with super high min dmg like the Peacekeeper (5 if you cheat a ram).

 

I'm guessing if you want awesome Promises action you take McCabe with Saber, Armor/Badge and Elixir and include Sidir with Promises, Francisco and Pale Rider to your list. That leaves you with around 10ss to spend on scheme runners or Austringers or whatever the current strategy might need. List like this would only be decent in a pretty killy scenario.

 

A number of play experiences by different players, playing with and against Guild on differing levels of experience... and then a comparison of the numbers showing that Guild have significantly higher chance of losing after accounting for chance. Just evidence.

Come on man!

I said evidence, not some claims without anything to back it up.

Oy! I'm still waiting for any evidence whatsoever of the Guild being subpar.

 

I feel like a complete doofus, but I don't understand how you delete quote boxes that are inside other quote boxes... When I do it, it ends up looking like the above - how do you do it? Pressing backspace or delete doesn't seem to work and I'm unable to somehow choose the quote block (without choosing all the quote blocks).

Do you use Chrome? Wondering if it can be browser-specific?

Can you delete it? Because I can't. I either delete the whole quote block or else I end up with weird non-quotes (I can delete the text but not the quote block itself if it is embedded inside another). And chopping up a quote to answer several points is cumbersome as well. I'm also a coder (well, these days it's more that I was a coder and now I mostly do Powerpoints and sit in meetings...) so I really appreciate having control.

There doesn't seem to be the option to get into the old UI for writing an answer (the one where you can manually write the BBCode and so on). I find this highly inconvenient.

Quote blocks are basically impossible to use without the old UI - is this something that is being worked on? Because I really, really dislike the new system.

 

I'm probably missing something, but quotes are working fine for me. Is there another option you are looking for or editing/tag ability you are after?

Also folks seemed confused or upset over the like/dislike buttons. Does this work better for folks?

Back to top, can probably work something out on that. 

Preview, I'll look into but no promises.

 

MG?

Yeah, I love the faction, particularly the flexibility. And the variety of masters. The only thing we're really missing is a solid summoning master. Toshiro is pretty nice, but a poor substitute when you're staring down a Nico or a Ramos in a Reconnoiter type scenario... 

As for the matter at hand- I know the game comes down to bring the crew that successfully completes the schemes and strats, but on of my favorite things to do with idle time is parse through cards and look for dirty things. For instance. Sensei Yu- McCabe passes him the badge of speed. He now pushes. He then activates, takes his nimble action. Let's say he's got Wandering River. He targets a model, 0 action to steal mccabe's 0 action. Uses take this. Passes badge of speed to a beater. Izamu? Lone Swordsman? It gets pushed by take this. (4"? I think?) Uses Airburst to push the same beater 5 more inches, and gains focus. Uses Mighty Gust to push them 5 more inches. Gives them fast. Now you have a model that's 14" further than it was. With Nimble. And fast. (And if it was Izamu, also with Melee Expert). @VirtualOnMars Lightning 'Zamu's Final Form.

 

M2e has been out about two years so should have the right cards by now.It would be pretty shady to be selling sets with defunct cards still and if that did happen I'd take it back and ask for the current edition set.

It should have a sticker on with M2e if an old box to show it has the current cards.

Honestly, I'd say its due to the Nythera hype. I'm satisfied with putting this on hiatus for now personally, although since I roped myself into getting the box, I can't possibly end this for good until its finished to a satisfying enough degree (and tbh we ARE pretty far, so far).

~Lil Kalki