Patzer

I have pondered a lot on this, and I don't think there is a clear cut answer. Its not a bad thing, it serves for a lot of different play styles and presses the Outcast theme of subtle crew-tinkering. Depending on the board and the deployment I can see an argument for almost every master. The two ways of going about it is either getting markers down by either sturdy runners or hordes of them, or kill everything that get across the centre line.

Viks will probably like to kill first and later getting down markers. Should prefer to have a lot of shooting to shoot down runners etc.

Misaki can probably do something in-between the two strategies. Together with Ashes and Dust, Ama, she can run down the opponents flanks, kill stuff while also dropping markers. Will like to have some shooting as support. Yamaziko has Nimble which is nice, especially with Oathkeeper. If you have a Gambler's heart, you may want to give Smoke and Shadows with Oiran/Torakage a go. Mileage may vary though, I for one have turned my back completely on that synergy. 

Daw can pull off some really juicy push effects, however those are pretty much in a straight line and pale in comparison with the likes of Colette for instance. Anyway, they are rather good. Guilty are very sturdy and deceptively quick. Ashes and Dust is a very good pick here too.

Johan with Hiddden Agenda/Recalled Training getting extra pushes from the Emissary is a treat.

Having to spend a 7-9 for copying the action then having to actually get it off... None for me. Its nice to have, but not efficient.  But that is not why we are here! Models for Jack and Leve! Dead Outlaws (at least how I play them) are too speedy to be anchors. Yet, they are good with Daw. Sue, Johan, Trappers, Lazarus, are all good choices for both though.

I would second what Adran was saying. Pressure the opponent with Attacks, TN duels, etc. Ashes and Dust is very good with Misaki for this. Ama might have some merit, being a cheaper henchmen with high moderate and severe damage. A pair of Trappers is as always a very good way of putting pressure on the opponent's hand. The TT merc Lust is great at forcing several tn duels, can chip damage a lot, and she can also push Misaki with a (0). Even with his fancy new upgrade, I think that Monty is too squishy for what he wants to do. Hans might have some merit, but I haven't had the chance to try him out with his new upgrade. Librarians (a Misaki staple) can force a lot of cheating with Furious Casting.

Sensei Yu is really good with her, but she is fine with out him too. It depends a little bit what you want to do. If Misaki is going to do most of the heavy lifting herself, or if you plan to alpha strike: Yu is the right choice. If you dont want to alpha, or prefer more hitting power in the crew Yu can sit out. There are plenty of different make ups for how a balanced crew may look like, so let me leave that aside and comment on a handful of models (who may fit in alpha crews too of course). 

Mr Graves. Can push friendly and enemy models, hitts pretty hard, and takes some effort to bring down. 

Mr Tannen. Forces discards and may prevent ss use. Misaki can get a lot out of both. Works best in cramped spaces, but outside of danger. 

Yin. Really good tarpit. Can shut down enemies and force a lot of duels. Great control model. 

Samurai. Can shoot out chunks of the enemy crew, and has tools to ignore armor in ml. Great for mix up, and crowd control. 

Johan. Hits hard and has condition removal. Enough said. 

Chiaki. Tough scheme runner and has condition removal. 

Lone swordsman. A versitile beater who can punch way above his weight in the right situation. 

Lust. Great at setting up other models for attacks, or disrupt the enemy ranks. Can cause some chip damage, and provide with some card draw too. 

Shadow Emissary. Misakis conflux is mint. Especially since it makes the Emissary so speedy. Gives non leader models with an upgrade Fast for a 1 ap, can hit hard, and has plenty of cool interactions with its auras. Can make your enforcers and hench men really deadly. 

Yamaziko. Her defensive 0 is good, and her 2ap action can be a killer. Strong against wp. Solid model for its asking price. 

Ohaguro. The new TT henchmen can shut down df / wp triggers with a 6" aura. Makes for a great running mate for Misaki against targets who rely on triggers to stay alive. Can charge through terrain, models and doesnt require Los... 

Terracotta Warrior. Can protect your enforcers and switch upgrades. 

Shadow Effigy. Great stats and abilities. Ml 7 makes it an assassin against targets on 1-2 wnds. Its leader condition is great for Misaki. 

Katanaka Snipers. May not cause the same amount of havoc as a Samurai, but their collected approach can take out or soften up targets for your hitters. Will get reactivate if they see Misaki go down. Works wonders in pairs. 

TT bro. Great scheme runner with plenty of tricks. 

Their Ca attack becomes quite useful when Pandora and Sorrows are around.

18 hours ago, TheTrans said:

Oh mate, If Reva gets the drop on Lilith though, as long as the Reva player can push through 2 normal + 1 corpse pop attacks, Lilith is toast...

If that happens Lilith sure is smoked, and I won't deny it is a really deadly dance for Lilith too. Lilith has the tools though to make life hard for Reva. If Lilith don't make the best use of those tools, Reva can counter well.

Lilith is the natural predeator to Reeva. She can switch corpse candles for her beaters with tangle and disrupt Los with her markers. If Reeva overextends, Lilith can probably get to her and shave off a lot of wounds too. 

Some lists

Pandora, The Box Opens/Voices, Aether Connection, Fears Given Form/Wings of Darkness. Cache 5-6.
Prim Magic
Nekima
Widow Weaver/Mr Graves
Doppelganger
Sorrow/Iggy/Insidious Madness
Changeling x2/-x1 + Mysterious Effigy.

Pandora, The Box Opens/Voices, Aether Connection, Fears Given Form/Wings of Darkness. Cache 5-6.
Prim Magic
Nekima, maybe +1 1ss upggrade
Widow Weaver
Doppelganger, maybe +1 1ss upgrade
Mysterious Effigy

Pandora, Cry for Me, Voices, On Wings of Darkness. Cache 5-6*
Prim Magic
Nekima, maybe 1ss upgrade.
Widow Weaver, Handbag.
Doppelganger, maybe 1ss upgrade.
Sorrow
Will O' The Wisp x2

*This isn't a optimal crew, but its quite fun since nearly all models can paralyze.

 

3 hours ago, esqulax said:

cool, thanks for the link.

Wouldn't Lilith require getting a box of young and mature nephelim as well so you can grow them?

If you want to play thematic, then yes. If you want to play more optimal Lilith builds, then no. Dreamer is the real Grow Master.

This turned out really well I think. Very comprehensive take on the faction. 

Some suggestions if you want to expand.

What common models should you watch out for?
4. Nekima. Very hard hitting henchmen, with the ability to heal a lot while killing enemy models. Very dangerous together with the Doppelganger's initiative ability. 

Collodi: What does he do?
7. Can form one of the most impressive gun lines in the game.

On 2016-10-09 at 1:14 AM, Khyodee said:

It was mentioned during the interview, but it was short and ended up getting cut out. The gist of it was Swamp Mother sucks and isn't worth the points.

Not even with the Wisps?

My takes on the masters I play in the faction.

Collodi: The puppet master can attack from a lot of different ways, and is fantastic at buffing nearby minions. Excels at buffing, control, and he can hit surprisingly hard by himself. Collodi can figure out a way to compete in most pools.

Zoraida: The Shenanigranny is a very good schemer, control, and debuffer. With her different hexes she can makes the opponents life miserable. Zoraida doesn't excel at killing things, thus I think she is best suited for less kill-centred pools.

Lilith: the factions jack of all trades master. She can do it all really well. I don't tend to use her in Extraction/Turf War where there are better options in faction, but she is still very capable. Overall she is a beast.

Pandora: is fiddly, but once you put the parts together she can be really hard to face. Has plenty of nuance to her playstyle which starts with the upgrades she takes. Can scheme, disrupt, debuff, and kill very capably. With the right upgrade set she can do all pools very well.

Lynch: Can do most pools well. Getting a free henchman is not a bad thing most of the time. In Collect the Bounty and if Mark for Death is around, Huggy is usually a point sink. Overall Lynch is just efficient at getting the job done with his card mechanics which helps keeping your hand stacked. 

to all who mentioned Hooded Rider. I forgot about it. The Rider is a great independent model who is hard to pin down thanks to its push. The push is also great to get models out of danger if needed by after the Rider has charged into something. With Retribution's Eye it is a just a killer on later turns! 12ss+1ss upgrade gets you Nekima, but the Rider can operate with a lot less help from the crew and is always worth some consideration.

A pair of Stitched usually does the trick. Especially with the "obey"-masters.

Bad Juju in Swampfiend lists, or Lilith who can throw him into the midst.

McTavish is pretty good in a lot of lists, with and without Swampfiends. Isn't the best in melee, but can go toe to toe with many. Has a very impressive gun.

Teddy with Dreamer.

My first options would be Lynch. He can do most pools very well and has some impressive out of factions options in The Depleted (a 4ss outstanding tank) and Stitched Together. Lynch can form very impressive eight model elite crews, or very diverse nine model crews for strategies like interference. His crews are not super quick, but they are far from slow either. Depleted can push to other models with Brilliance, Shadow Emissary get another push with Lynch, and there are plenty of other pushes in the faction too. Lynch's crews can dish out a lot of punishment too and excels in killing strategies. Lynch has resilience, hitting power, and can bring well balanced crews to the mix.

Secondly the team needs a dedicated schemer. Lynch and his crew might not be slow, but compared to the likes of McCabe and Shenlong he is left in the dust. One of them would be the choice for interact heavy pools, when speed is better than resilience, or in pools where it is possible to get a lot of VP down early.

Lastly the team would need a specialist. A master who can excel in specific meta match ups, or who can do a specific strategy and scheme pool very, very, well if it were to come up.

Snipers are more survivable, is ml threat, and has a longer threat range than the Archer. The sh 5+ vs 6 is pretty much on par. I find that the sniper are more than capable of finishing most models when focusing. 

I prefer the TT bro over tengus. More survivable and can do more things. With lynch they can card filter a bit too quite relible. Tengu are still an ok cheap options.

Depleted are amazing tarpits on the cheap. Shadow effigy falls into this category too, with the benefit of being able to interact. Would take any of them in a pair over Yin. 

Shadow Emissary is a beast with Lynch. Fantastic model. Provides with two pushes, can give out fast to a model with an upgrade (even hidden agenda), some card draw, hits pretty hard and it needs to discard a card to power up properly with focus ++... Besides Huggy its the best model for TT Lynch. 

Illuminated are great. 

Beckoners are decent. 

Stitched is a great mid level beater.

Lone swordsman is very impressive with Lynch. The two card ditch for reactivate is most of the time not a vast investment for Lynch due to ace. The reactivate lets him do some very impressive scheme feats (great for a turn five sacrifice) or a bloody mess with recalled training. 

I don't really see how they compete. The First Mate is a Silurid with better stats, can use soulstones, and eat small models as well as scheme markers. To me, that screams schemer/flanker/scheme-runner destroyer. A stand a lone model who will be amazing in the right situations. Trixie's best trait is her three ap and Ill Omens, the push is quite handy to you on your on models too. As long as you want to play an aggressive over-extension game, Trixie will always have a place. The bottom line, TFM is a specialist and a stand alone model, while Trixie is a generalist and crew dependent model.

Pandora

Pandy is a great all rounder of a master, who flourishes in Extraction and in interact heavy scheme pools due to her strong denial game. Pandora has two limited upgrades who tend to be the outline of how she is played, but it is really what you bring together with the limited that makes the build. If you like to tinker with upgrades and try out different combinations Pandora is certainly a master for you. Pandora greatest strength is that she can put her stamp on the game and really mess with you opponent. She got plenty of activation tricks, which can be further enhanced by a Doppelganger. Together they can put the opponent in a really bad spot while your beaters will be kept safe. Pandora's native crew of Woes brings some neat tricks, but they lack hitting power which her crews thoroughly need. So Nekima or Teddy is probably the first purchase I would go with. The crew box also lacks some pure scheme runners, but Insidious Madnesses can fill that role well together with the Mysterious Effigy. Pandora's totem is nice, but the crew will be hard pressed for points so I couldn't recommend the Primordial Magic enough. As mentioned before, Doppelganger is amazing with Pandora in order to get her activation tricks to become even nastier. Iggy is another Woe who can also provide with even more activation control and brings some ranged support.

Dreamer

I have never played the Dreamer myself, but have played against him a ton. A very capable summoner and support master, who is very hard to pin down. Dreamer can be played with a surprisingly amount of verity, depending on what you need him to do. This stretches from the pre-game (upgrades, etc) to in game where he can adapt very well to what needs to be done. His summoning is limited but very diverse in those limited models. Lilitu can tie up bunch of enemies and Lure, Coppelius is a flexible runner/beater, while Stitched Together provides with a lot of threat even on a single wound. The Dreamer also got plenty of other mechanics besides summoning who synergies with his key word of Nightmare. These range from positioning to offensive tricks. So if you like a strong cohesive theme, Dreamer can definitely provide that. Even if he certainly likes some non-nightmare models too. Dreamer's box is a good way to start, then a box of Stitched, Insidious Madness and Lelu/Lilitu is probably where you want to go next. Widow Weaver and Teddy fleshes out the rest of the Nightmares, and both are really good additions. Of the non-Nightmare models I would first recommend either Nekima or the Hooded Rider.

Lilith

The mother of monsters is a forced to be reckoned with. She ignores los and terrain while using her Ca and charging, making her able to tilt the battle into her favour while she stays out of the fray. When she needs though, she can storm in and cut down most models without much fuzz. Her biggest strengths comes from being able to switch between these different styles and provide a ton of board control while doing it. She is very mobile, can toss around her own crew, make new dense terrain from very far away, and her Wicked Vines can be just as good as paralyze against a lot of models. In the right hands, Lilith is a very tough match up whose only real downside (low wp and low wounds) doesn't really matter a ton, due to her keep away game. Lilith can almost make any crew work quite well. Her box provides with the trusty Terror Tots and an ok henchman. He native totem is ok, but the double Rush of Magic that comes with a Primordial Magic (Lilith got it too) is often too good to be overlooked. Together with On Wings of Darkness Lilith gets to filter a whooping five cards before the games starts. Meaning you will almost always have better hands than your opponent. Nekima is an outstanding beater for Lilith, who can keep her quite squishy sister safe with her terrain-creation. Doppelganger is a solid pick up for Lilith too. Mr Graves is another Nephilim with an impressive push, and the Doppelganger can copy that push too. Waldegeist are solid sturdy model for Lilith, as are the Swampfiend henchmen Bad Juju and McTavish. A lower cost tarpit would be the Depleted.

 

Patzer, and why do we need an extra push from effigy?

 

 

 

Against most models it guarantees that Pandy can get away even if she gets hit. Great against charges, etc. Ideally you will just get the push from wining the duel, but it is very nice to have a second layer of defence. Second, if Pandora wins the duel she can push 7". Its even better, she can push 4"+3"! It just covers so much ground and lets Pandora nearly walk twice outside of her activation.

Some upgrade combinations I like:

Voices, Aether Connection, Fugue State/On Wings of Darkness/Fears Given Form.

Fears Given Form, The Box Opens, Aether Connection/Fugue State.

Fugue State is only in if Stake a Claim or Squatter's Rights is around. Its great if you want to shut down interactions.

I am not a fan of Depression since its (0) competes with the outstanding Incite. When I play Voices Pandora I rather focus on Paralyzing one important model then doing something else with the other two AP. Getting the most out of often is followed by getting some mileage out of Incite to get to places. Cry For Me is a bit expensive for what it does, but its different so you might want to play around with it to get a feel for it.

Models I like with Pandora: Doppelganger, Nekima (can create batches of WP duels), Mr Tannen (fantastic in Turf War/Extraction), Beckoner (non randomizing Ca who gains a little extra bite with Misery), Prim Magic, and Mysterious Effigy (provides Pandora with an extra push). Insidious Madness and Sorrows are pretty good too, but I tend to go for the 4ss runners like tots and the Effigy. Kade and Teddy is a solid 1-2 tandem though.

 

Or just do it typical, Outcasts way - kill enemy models who are trying to score points for Strategy

I am really leaning towards this as the best option...

Hamelin might be a pretty good option too with a handful of Crooligans. 

How do you all go about this tricky strategy? I am mainly looking for advice about Viks, Misaki, Hamelin, and Jack Daw, but I will of course listen to all input.

Cheers.

On 2016-08-21 at 4:00 PM, admiralvorkraft said:

Pride does a pretty decent job of pulling cards out.

Yeah, but he dies so easily too.

The Bigger They Are... Actually makes Daw's own damage potential quite impressive if it where to be attached on himself. The ranged attack on second and third hits after attaching Firing Squad be 3/5/6, and the can slash for 4/5/6 on the second and third hits and snatch the upgrade back for an additional 2 damage. Granted, you cannot hunt masters with it, but it certainly makes Daw pretty good at dealing with everything else.