Ikvar

I meant to include that asking for a Nightmare version was a great idea and I found that portion of this thread very productive.  You'll find my "like" under the responses promoting this idea.  FWIW I tend to agree with Fetid on most things.

Fair enough

I just dont see the whole "pressuring an innocent company" that I feel you were going for. The entire post the OP made was simply to make Wyrd aware that people were more then happy to pay more money for a bigger version, so I dont understand where all your "rage"(for a lack of better english words >>) came from.

And sorry for my bad joke, he was just kicked around a bit in the other thread, so I found his eagerness a bit amusing with all the       when someone finally agreed with him... meant no harm with it

Edit: and what the heck does FWIW stand for? O_o

     Uktena

You finally found someone who agreed with you Fetid

(this is a joke btw)

These kinds of threads kill me a little bit inside.  I can totally get behind any conversations voicing distaste with models, rules, etc; even the ones I disagree with.  I think being able to speak back to the creative team behind the product we pay money for is super important and particularly beneficial when they are open to input like Wyrd can often be.

 

Petitioning them to change an already existing item in the inventory is just unrealistic and disingenuous.  The key difference to me between a big thread complaining about things, and an attempt by the community to pressure Wyrd into taking a financial loss for something a vocal portion of the player base dislikes is the word "petition".  One is I believe healthy for the production crew, so they can get a sense of what is and what is not working.  It has led to some improvements in their modeling planning.  The other just seems petulant - what makes sense about resculpting a brand new model for a minor size preference (not an issue - it is just a simple preference.  The model looks fine otherwise). 

 

What are you expecting?  That they would junk the Nekimas they've already made and waste who-know's-how-many thousands of dollars in labor, material, and design just to meet a minor preference?  Would they buy back the ones they've sold?  Give out an equal amount of free models to players who already bought one?  The regular sized M2Nekima would just be on ebay tomorrow for half price and then Wyrd will really have taken a loss.

 

There have been design decisions I particularly disliked just like the rest of you.  There are even threads where I've gone in and loudly complained.  I've never tried to apply pressure to the company to get my way because I'm not the only person playing and it just seems tasteless to me.  Sorry for the rant, I don't like coming to the forums to be negative because I think it feeds back into the community, and it's threads like these that make me think that way.

So you were okay with a thread where everyone were raging on Wyrd, but when a thread is made to make the company aware that we are all willing to pay a premium for a larger version, that is where you draw the line?

That seems a bit odd to me, this is more or less a free survey for Wyrd...

Thank you so much for your input Justin, both I and I am sure everyone else are happy to hear your view on this matter. It would however be even more awesome if you could get someone from your production department to finally answer the simple question, if the scale is as intended or if they made a mistake. 

A simple yes or no answer could put all of these doubts to rest- we might not be happy with the answer we get, but at least all the bickering and discussions can be put to rest.

And I have no doubt you guys are listening to everything we say and complain about, which is why I am proud to be a henchman and spread the word of Malifaux... even if we dont always agree on everything

I will wholeheartedly sign this petition

It might also be best to not do more than one layer of matte varnish. I have found more than a single, fairly thin layer tends to get glossy. Best technique I have used thus far is the layer or two of gloss followed by a layer of matte.

That is my experience as well, but when one layer of matt varnish does not make it completely matt, the whole idea kinda goes out of the window

You smell and I do not like the color of your hair! 

Now that is out of the way.

I like the paint jobs.  Very vivid colors.  Reminds me of the anime cell painting teachniques. 

Snitchy sends.

Hehe, okay I did not see that one coming ^^

And thanks

That is really nice of you to say Math, though I highly doubt anyone would listen more to me then you

@Raging the glaze medium offers zero protection.

@Spectre Matt varnish simply does not work for me, it ruins the colours after a few layers, and there is still some shine to it afterwards. 

- And what do you mean by cutting?

And I totally admit that. And you may have a point. At the same time I would like everyone who thinks the new nekima was a mistake that needs to be fixed to stop. I don't want them to stop complaining they don't like the model, but the constant narrative that they "made a mistake" and therefore Nekima needs a "fix" is equally irritating to me.

As far as we know Wyrd did not make a mistake with Nekima. When wyrd has made a mistakes in the past they admit it. The rework of the Transmortis cards, the scale issue of the Vickie's box, the scale issue of the female multi part model kits, Nekima's price issue. All these were mistakes and wyrd let the community know it. So the evidence points to the fact that the new Nekima was not a mistake.

Now I don't have any problem with people complaining they don't like the new Nekima, or not liking tht she is the size she is, but just as you have an issue with my assertion that they couldn't make a nekima the size people were expecting for the price they were expecting, I have an issue with that continuing narrative, and both should most likely end.

Wyrd has had many misses with the new sculpts. And the truth is in all those cases that miss is totally sibjective. I loath the new Molly and Colette, but just because I don't like them doesn't mean that wyrd made a mistake. Personally from a play perspective I like te smaller nekima, just as I've always liked the smaller chompy as opposed to the new plastic or the nightmare chompy, but that doesn't mean I'm right, as there is no "right" answer.

I dont see why you would have a problem with me asking a simple yes or no question to wyrd- wyrd have always been open to questions about their products, so why should you have a problem when I state a simple none aggressive question?

If I had simply raged and said that the model was awful, and asked them how they could be so stupid (just to make sure, I do no think anyone at wyrd are stupid^^), I would understand why you did not like what I said. But it should really not touch you in any way, that I ask a simple question to a company that is known to be okay with criticism.

I love the fact that we play a game, and buy stuff from a company that does not ban me for asking these questions, so please dont take it upon yourself and try to make it a problem for people to be curious, or ask questions.

Please stop.

 

Don't take this as an insult, but you keep mentioning that she'll be more than $35 and only offer some speculation as to why with nothing to back it up.  Then whenever someone makes comparisons to other models in the range they get the same rebuttal that's "it's different and you shouldn't compare them".  Basically that response boils down to "you can't have a discussion with me".  I', well aware you think Nekima will cost a fortune as does everyone who's perused this thread or one of the other ones which have gotten locked, but you have nothing to support your claim and every rebuttal gets the same dismissal.

 

Again, I'm trying to do this as politely as possible, but you keep asserting this and don't really have anything to back it up.  I acknowledge her being above $35 is possible, but I don't think it's a sure thing.

You are a nice man Fetid, and I fully understand what you mean. But discussing with someone who keeps saying the same theoretical line gets a bit old. The fact that a lot of us are very disappointed is not theoretical, the fact that she is supposed to be taller by all accounts is not theoretical, the fact that this was a figure many was looking forward to even people who do not play this game is not theoretical, the fact that she is smaller than many other HT2 figures who are even known to be small in the lore(barbaros) is not theoretical either.

I honestly dont care about the price of this figure, even if I had to pay 50$ for a taller version I would still do it.

I really hope I dont come out as to aggressive, and I hope my english is understandable, I really mean no disrespect

To my VERY big surprise, it was actually a major success with using the glaze to matt my figure... but not just was it a success to make it more matt, it also had another unexpected and very awesome side effect. I have painted multiple layers of Vallejo matt varnish on my Lilith figure to get it matt, and sadly I found out that this had desaturated the colours quite a bit, and for someone like me who heavily relies on the bright colours to make my comic book style of painting, this made me very sad. However for some very odd reason, using the glaze actually made the colours more saturated again, and after two layers the colours are more or less back to how it was in the beginning.

I will try to paint on Vallejo glossy varnish on a figure I am making tonight(glossy gives better protection then matt), and tomorrow when it is dry, I will try to simply put on the glaze medium instead of several layers of matt varnish that will just ruin my colours. If this actually works, I am not kidding when I say that this will revolutionize the way we use varnish, as I know a couple of Golden Demon painters that are having the same problems as I am, and this little trick will make our lives A LOT easier ^^

If you have to significantly cater your list to support a model who isn't your master then that's probably not a very effective choice, generally speaking.

I very much disagree with this point, most masters I play dont need any support- including Lilith whom I take Nekima with. There are plenty of SS left to help out a center piece model.

Glaze Medium? Really?

When I use to much Glaze Medium in the paint, it normally starts to shine?

And many thanks for all the great advice! :-)

Thanks for all the critic and help, I truly appreciate it!

I dont think I can be bothered actually altering her colours at this point, I am simply to tired of painting on her. To be honest I have actually never liked her sculpt either, so if I take my time to paint a new Lilith, it would likely be an alt sculpt I like a bit better. I have only done all the work on her for practice

I guess I will have to look at the testors dull coat as some other people have mentioned it aswell, so thanks for the advice

In regards to my style and winning awards, I fully understand what you mean. I have a Golden Demon winner where I play, that more or less said the same thing- in europe the more realistic style wins most of the time. I will however be so bold and say that high quality cartoony style is harder then a realistic style, as its REALLY easy to see every fault you have made with all the highlights ans sharp colours. Its a bit more easy to hide faults in a realistic figure with some brown washes or something

While I appreciate the the fact that you will go through all the trouble it will become, to return all the money to so many different people... I cant help but feeling that it still was a scale issue, but this way it will be easier for you guys instead of making an entire new figure... I mean her size still does not make sense to me, and I am one of the few people who really dont care about the money... I just want her to be the kinda figure EVERYONE thought she was going to be.

I dont want her to be as big as the old model or anything, but I think she is one of the smallet HT3 on a 50mm I have ever seen :/

Still love you guys, still love the game and all that, but I am also still truly and deeply disappointed in what used to be my all time favorite figure...  

It has to be a scale issue. To sell a miniature that is KNOWN for its size, for a sizeable price, without showing us a comparison shot, and only giving us a render. Surely they expected it to be bigger.

I certainly hope so, because otherwise, it has sold the units it has to this point, for the price it sold for, on the back of unrealistic and UN-corrected expectations.

This is what I think as well, and why I keep asking for something official from Wyrd...

... But I did not say it was wrong, I just pointed out a random fact that Wyrd had said it was actually her skin, and not cloth as most people think it is. Where in that sentence did I say it was wrong of him to paint it as cloth? O_o

And do you actually think it is okay to have such a strong reaction just because I pointed that out?

Other than how much the color combo clashes? The blue and red are working for me, but the purple with them is a little harsh on the eyes. However, I'm a massive fan of complimenting colors and I don't usually stray too far out of that box so I'm pretty biased on that score.

 

I'm also at work and the computer moniter is pretty bad but from what I can see that would be my only complaint so far. Your technique is superb and I'm liking the metallics.

 I hate the fact that monitors show pictures differently, it is something I never thought about until I started to take pictures. My own monitor is an awful laptop screen, so I have to use my GFs monitor when I want to look at the finished picture... but the problem is that her monitor is a really good IPS panel that PROs can use for picture editing... but how many people even have that? so I have no clue how the colours would look like for different people, which really frustrate me :/

I was also just notified by some friends that have seen the real model, that these new pictures I have taken of Lilith are very dark, and I now know that I have set the functions in my DSLR wrong, which also fucks up my colours... so annoying how hard it is to simply show a mini how it looks IRL >> 

AAaanyway on to the painting subject- I see what you mean with the cape, and I might actually have changed it a bit if I painted a new version, but I must admit that I am to tired of the mini to alter all that now... though I do like to have some purple on all my Neverborn minis

Thanks for the comment

I see what you mean with the red, however I wont dare to throw more different colours on the mini, as I have been told by some pros that I need to try and minimize how many different colours I use. And I actually dont use pure white anywhere on the red, I mix some skin colour into the red base colour... but maybe I need to tone it down even more?

Some updated pictures of Lilith:

And it turns out that the webpage I have used for uploading pictures have been screwing with the colours, so I am trying out a new place. 

She is not 100% done, but about 90% done I guess. I need some darker colours in the shadow of the cape where the freehand face is, and I need to do something about that damn shine! >>

If you know of a matt varnish that is actually matt, please help me out. Vallejo matt varnish simply wont work for me, no matter how much I shake the bottle.

There is also some other stuff I need to fix on this model... but I cant set my finger on it, so it would be awesome if you guys could help me out. I think I have stared way to long on this damn miniature ^^ 

Greetings everyone!

After I have tried everything with my Vallejo matt varnish, I have now given up. No matter what I do there are always spots that are a bit shiny... and I really hate shiny spots on my miniatures >>

Do anyone know another varnish that is 100% matt, and if it can be used with an airbrush it would be even better

Ah well fair enough, and sorry for being so defensive then 

@SPECTREELITEGAMING thanks for the nice comments, I am currently trying to find a happy medium with the more normal and my kinda extreme colours/highlight style. I will never stop painting with my comicbook style, however I also see the merits in trying to keep a focus on the miniature so the details wont end up drowning in all the rest of the extreme highlights and colours

@LUSCIOUSMCCABE I fully understand what you mean, but you should try to take one of your own shirts and stretch it a bit, and then you will see how much the patterns will actually bend. I might do it a bit more then needed, just to make the effect a bit more visible on such a small space. The buttons are placed in the middle, where they are all fixed in place... and because they are most likely made out of metal and dont stretch like fabric would ^^

I see what you mean about the base though... need to think about that

But thank you so much for the critic!

 

My contribution to the overall discussion here is pretty simple. Don't be a jackass. There is a way to offer constructive criticism that is building and encouraging, and a way that is basically just aggression and tearing down disguised as 'help'. It is on the critiquer's part to learn how to do the first one, not the listener. The listener needs to learn how to accept feedback, but this is a two way street. If someone jumps in my thread and wants to offer feedback, but does it in the 'I hate this, it looks stupid' manner, I'm ignoring them, and blocking them so I don't see it. Your tone matters just as much as my reaction. And I am not under obligation to listen to someone attacking me.

I will start out by quoting myself:

"Of course I wont go to the picture and just say it is horrible, neither of us would get anything positive out of that. I will normally say something like "really nice colours you have chosen! but if you want to make it even more awesome, you could try to paint another layer of paint after the wash, to make the miniature a bit more clean"... but even that people get offended from. Its not like I would go to such a miniature, and start telling him to do NMM, or how he should use glazes etc."

If that is not polite enough, I dont know what is. There is a fundamental problem when people keep saying "your tone matters" or "be nice" etc. the problem is that communication in the written form can be quite problematic if the reader insist on reading whatever I say in a negative tone, as he is not able to see me or actually hear my voice. That is why I am getting so tired of trying to help people in this community, and that is why I think there is a major problem in this community that we need to work around, in order to let the "artist" side of the hobby grow.

I had a discussion with someone on the A Wyrd Place FB page yesterday, where I said nothing to disrespect or anything, however a guy still thought that I was being "slightly condescending", and therefore decided to rage on me. Here is the first part of the discussion:

Me: It looks really good, however remember that the thing she is holding, is actually her own skin

Him: it can be whatever the artist chooses it to be. If I wanted to paint it up as a floral table cloth, then it's a floral table cloth!!! Do your man dollies the way you want, others will do theirs the way they want.

And that is even a mild case, I have experienced much worse(!), and that is why I am tired of this "just be more nice" thing. I start out with a compliment and then just point out a simple fact, it was not even a real critique of the figure but more just me pointing out a random fact... and he STILL got pissed.

There are also limits to how much energy I can be bothered to use on being nice and polite, when I am in fact already using my energy and time in trying to help. 

I have worked a bit in a kindergarten, and even a bit with teens for teaching them how to paint and draw, and nowhere have people been as childish as some people are in this hobby. The fact that I need to sugarcoat everything I say to such an extreme extend... just because I want to help people... I quite honestly think its amazing.

And I know some of you will think this is very harsh aswell, but its so frustrating to keep being told these things when I am only trying to help.

But again, I truly hope people will start using my idea with writing something about wanting critic in their thread title, so the people wanting to help know where they are wanted/welcomed. Until then I think I will just completely refrain from writing comments to peoples pictures, so I dont hurt anyones feelings/pride or whatever.

Or just be aware of the fact that if you put your models up for display on a forum you need to have your "big boy" pants on, because not everyone is going to like it. And some may criticise. 

 

If you want nothing but praise for the work, take a photo, and then put that photo up on your mother's fridge. 

Hehe, while I fully agree I was going for the more diplomatic approach

@Jotun was that a comment of what I now have done in my painting blog?

- am I being to aggressive in what I have written? 

And yes I will absolutely listen to what everyone have to say, even if the person had trouble putting on a black primer ^^

Movie and food critics are mostly not able to do anything they are criticizing, but people still value their opinion because of their (mostly) wast knowledge on the subject. So I will fully respect and welcome critic from everyone