Philosfr

You're taking them out of order.

• First: Figure out how to end up closest to the model in question when you finish moving. If there is only one way to do that, that's the way you take.
• Second: If there are more than one way to pick that gets you equidistant to the luring model, take which one has the shortest distance moved (i.e. 2" over severe terrain rather than 4" over non-severe terrain). 

This answers all your questions. A roof with a hole in it? If falling down and climbing up doesn't get you closer, then you walk around the edge. There's no question there. Lure isn't that difficult. The lured model wants to get as close as possible using any means available. When put like that, there shouldn't be much debate about the path to take.

Why does it need errata? The first thing you need to do is end the closest to the luring model that you can do. That's right there in the rules. The only time the "shortest" or "quickest" route comes in is if there's two choices that let you end the same distance apart. The reason the FAQ clarifies it already is so there is no question that the model will put itself in harms away in pursuit of getting the closest it can to the luring model. The answer is yes, if it's the shortest route available.

"Shortest route" and "ending closest" are not mutually exclusive. The reason they are both used is to avoid situations where someone could choose to "fall" off a ledge, or climb down a ledge. They can get closer using by falling, so they do. If there was a situation where they could walk one way through hazardous terrain and end up the same distance away as if they walked the other way and avoided the hazardous terrain, they have to pick whichever way is closest.

Example: A model is 5" away from the luring model, with a model in between them. If they walk on the right side of the model, they hit hazardous terrain, take damage, and end up 2.5" away from the model due to it also being severe. If they walk on the left side of the model, they have to go farther around, but can also end up 2.5" away since there's no severe terrain on that side. Which way do they choose? The "shortest" route makes that clear.

There's a discussion ongoing about what counts as terrain, and what counts as base to base with terrain, specifically in regards to the campaign event this week "Sandstorm".

When the sandstorm is active "All portions of the table that do not have terrain count as severe terrain". The question is, does this mean the whole table counts as terrain? If you have an ability that states "Enemy models in base contact with terrain..." does an enemy standing not near any terrain before the sandstorm count as being in base contact with the terrain after sandstorm triggers?

To me, the rule on terrain says "All terrain has a base", and describes terrain as an object. The empty part of the table is not terrain. Sandstorm say it "counts as severe terrain", but does not say it becomes terrain, nor can you be base to base with something that has no base (unless you describe the entire table as the base when sandstorm is active).

I'll be the first to admit that the rules aren't 100% clear here, but I would say sandstorm does not trigger "in base contact with terrain". Others are saying differently. Thoughts?

Unless we're getting Emissaries for Black Friday 

(Fingers crossed, but not holding my breath because I don't look good when I'm blue)

Woohoo!

Willpower. Lilith only has a 5, most of her crew is likewise fairly low except Barbaros. That's her biggest weakness, though the new Scion of Blood can help take care of many of the worst conditions. Also range. They are fast so it is hard, but they can't do anything while you're at range.

On Upgrades - I completely agree that upgrades can change the way things play. Some are great about it, like Molly and Dreamer for example. Others, not so much. But upgrades should add new playstyles, not just mimic someone else. So Seamus with Showgirls. It's either not different enough that it still plays like Seamus with Belles, or it ends up feeling a little much like a Colette crew with a different master. Now if it was an upgrade that let Seamus hire Showgirls but then utilized the Showgirl in an unusual manner (I'm thinking hostage situation, some drawback to using them, but when they die they auto-summon Belles), then that might be fun.

As far as "fleshing out current masters", I don't like adding things that are so "in-theme" that it's hard to play with much else. Rasputina was my first master and still has a cherished place in my heart, but I very quickly grew tired of the very one-dimensional crews she had. They all looked very similar with just a couple of changes. She's too good with her "in-theme" stuff that you don't really want to include a lot from other things. In this regard, I totally see new masters solving that problem. A Neverborn/Arcanist dual-faction crew that was made up of human cultists and cold mountainous Neverborn. Lots of the crew has Frozen Heart, but the master doesn't actually use it. They would fit nice with Rasputina, add some interesting cross-over, and make two factions consider the new options. This seems a lot better than just adding "icey something X and icey something Y" that only Rasputina really cares about.

I'm not a fan of reading comments like "no new masters". I don't think additional masters are a problem unless the new masters somehow make old ones obsolete. Yes, it's tricky to balance, but with Wyrd's upgrade system, I think it's very possible to add additional masters that don't automatically screw up the game. I definitely want more of everything...

Except, maybe factions? I'm not sure about this one. First, it's a large amount of new stuff. It would be the small faction that didn't have a full toolbox and the forums would be filled with arguments why they should get more new stuff than other factions against people saying to go play a 'real faction' if they want the full set of toys. I don't think Wyrd would come out with 7 new masters and a full line of henchmen, enforcers and minions all at once.

Plus, a new faction doesn't offer much of anything to existing players. Sure, there are people like me who have virtually every model from all the factions, but I would imagine we're a distinct minority. But take my wife who really only cares to play Guild (for now anyway, she's relatively new to Malifaux). Unless there's cross faction new/Guild, she wouldn't care.

I wouldn't necessarily argue against a new faction, I certainly would buy the new faction (but then I'd buy anything new for Malifaux), but I'm also not going to jump on the bandwagon asking for one. Give us stuff for the existing factions first would be my vote

1) More Masters (and henchmen, and enforcers, and minions, and peons...) that are game balanced with existing things

2) More history / story / fluff of Neverborn culture

3) Human cultists that revere the Neverborn for some cross-faction Arcanist/Neverborn or something similar. Not humans forcibly converted like the Scion of Blood or Bloodwretches, but conservationists that collect and preserve Neverborn lore

Bonus #4) Stop making Lilith sound like Nekima in the latest fluff, all pure wrath and unable to even be around humans without wanton slaughter! The whole reason Lilith is supposed to be the boss and not Nekima is that Lilith can be cunning, devious and restrain her bloodlust when it furthers her plans. Sure, she is mercurial and can fly off the handle, but lots of the latest stories make her seem one-dimensionally angry

Both of them are awesome additions to many crews. Candy can even play healer in a pinch. Plus, kicking your opponents backside with a bunch of children is always fantastic

Ebay has a lot of the old Avatar models you can use as legal proxies. I'm using Zoraida's at the moment, but only because I'm playing a campaign and plan to take Lilith's Avatar at some point. Otherwise I'd probably be using Lilith's. They are both plantlike Avatars.

It would be better to say there are only three types of movement... pushes, moves and placements. A walk or charge and some Lures are all moves, but only a Walk action triggers disengaging strikes.

I meant that if a model takes a disengaging strike against a model with Terrifying, passes the Horror Duel, they then gain immunity for the rest of the turn. They can then attack or move near that model later on their turn. It would also apply if they made a second disengaging strike against the same model. That part is 100% clear. 

The part that our group played wrong and seems less clean was Horror Duels resulting from things other than Terrifying. 

Ouch. Yeah, close deployment would certainly enable this.

The key word is the first part of Anna's aura. It's only Enemy models that may not end a place effect. Lust is placing a Friendly model, not an enemy, so Gravity Well has no effect.

(What Myyra said, but I misread Myyra's sentence at first so thought I'd clarify for others who misread it the same way I did)

Waking +4 turn one isn't easy, even with the upgrades to get waking from Sh attacks. Did he somehow have a target to shoot at without moving, or get moved into position by something else?

If Chompy used his 0 to sacrifice, the Dreamer would show back up without slow. However, unlike Lord Chompy Bits, the Dreamer was merely buried. The Dreamer that shows back up is the same Dreamer, meaning he would NOT get to activate again, since he already activated that turn.

That's pretty game changing. Our local group has certainly played terrifying correctly (take a disengaging strike, succeed, get immunity for the rest of the turn, etc), but I know we've played things like Widow Weaver and some of the Ressers that can force horror duels with other actions incorrectly per this interpretation.

I guess it becomes important of what model is the one causing the horror duel for some of those abilities. 

It seems that Neverborn are not fixed in form and morph as needed (see Lucius comments about the Neverborn language and why it's impossible for humans to learn as an example). Seems like their bones certainly should be like that as well.

I'd say they should be whatever you find scary/intimidating as that's the form Neverborn seem to adapt to the most...

So over in the Neverborn faction forum a question came up about Horror Duels, specifically the immunity to them. I thought I'd ask it over here, since the RAW seems to leave room for any model that forces a horror duel to be much weaker than I previously thought.

In this case, we'll use the Widow Weaver. The Widow Weaver has Terrifying, but also has an attack action which can force the target to make a Horror Duel. The question is: If the Widow Weaver attacks a target and it successfully makes the Horror Duel, does that model become immune to all Horror Duels the result from the Widow Weaver until the End Phase? Meaning a second successful attack wouldn't require a Horror Duel at all since it was immune, and the model could move near or attack Widow Weaver without making a Terrifying check?

The small rulebook rule on Horror Duels does say Horror Duels, so RAW seems to imply that a second attack by Widow Weaver would not force a Horror Duel. But the section seems clearly written for Terrifying checks, and even mentions the model can continue activation without being affected by Terrifying. 

I had not considered that, but if true, that greatly weakens the power of models that can force terrifying checks.

Note: The rule in the rulebook specifically refers to Terrifying. 

"A model that passes a Horror Duel may continue to act normally. Additionally, the
model is considered immune to Horror Duels from the model that generated the
Horror Duel until the End Phase of the Turn. A model, therefore, does not have
to pass multiple Horror Duels caused by one model’s Terrifying Ability, but it
might have to test against a different model’s Terrifying Ability in the same Turn."

The Widow Weaver's attack has nothing to do with Terrifying, it's the attack action that forces a Horror Duel. This might be a question for the rules forum. I think the immunity is intended for Terrifying, not all Horror Duels, but RAW might imply differently.

Squishy? Wow, that's not at all what I would call him. I take him as my tank and watch my opponent cry. Great defenses, moderately high wound count, defensive triggers, armor... other than hard to wound / hard to kill, I'm not sure what more you could ask out of the guy. And don't forget soulstones for damage prevent, and the possibility of upgrades to further that.

Yeah, he's expensive and sorta pillow-fisted. The Challenge counteracts that though, making it much harder for your opponent to ignore him.

I get him killed in many games, but that's only because I ram him down my opponents throat and force my opponent to deal with him, while the rest of my crew is doing whatever I want them to. Don't forget the Challenge prevents enemies from targeting their own models too. Captain targeting a friendly for a push? Lenny targeting a friendly to cheat in for a pig summon? Librarian trying to target a heal? All of those suddenly cause high WP duels or they fail. That right there is worth the 10 stones in my book.

I'm using Zoraida's Avatar as my Mysterious Emissary proxy currently, and since we're playing a campaign, I've got Lilith's Avatar when we actually hit the half-way point and I can hire Lilith.

That said, I also am trying to figure out how to squeeze some of the Avatar's on 30mm bases. I would think Zoraida's Avatar on a 30mm would work a legal proxy for Zoraida. It's on a 30mm so there's no doubt it's the Emissary or anything, it is Wyrd, it is Zoraida, and if not a campaign game, it can't be an Avatar either. Using one of Colette's 30mm Avatar would be a no-brainer in the same way. Trying to squeeze Perdita or Rasputina onto a 30mm might not be very practical though, but it would look cool if you had an elaborate enough base to do so.

We initially made the same mistake, but quickly realized that this got pretty crazy. While the section is not 100% clear, re-reading the section where it talks about completing 1 flip before moving on to the next flip certainly implies 1 flip = 1 purchase.

So we're pretty confident that you can only buy one campaign upgrade per barter flip. That's the answer I got on these forums last time I asked the same question as well

I've only played against Gremlins 4 times so far. Brewmaster, Ophelia and McTavish. I've lost all of them, so I feel your pain. My lack of experience playing against them makes it difficult to offer advice, but I'm starting to figure out a few.

Next time I want to check the timing of abilities, it may make a difference. Teddy for example. I think his "Push into base contact" would happen after the Squeal trigger, keeping them from escaping. Barbaros (2) Ml action is similar I think. Angel Eyes would certainly add some anti-gremlin shooting action.