chris_havoc

@EnternalVoid: I think that you may be right to a degree but even if you are incredibly lucky you won't beat someone who is as much more skilled and knowledgeable than you are more lucky. I think if two opponents would find themselves in a stale mate or at least closely matched then luck would play more of a destabalizing role. But like someone said in the other forums it SUCKS when people blame bad luck for losing rather than acknowledge skill. I know I have been guilty of that but in dice games the legitimacy of this complaint is far greater. I also find I play to the jokers... if I know the Black Joker hasn't come out I enter duels expecting to fail. That way I manage my expectations and also play in such away that incurs acceptable losses. Another thing is that in terms of resource management exhausting your opponents resources is as much a part of the skill. Doing so forces unmitigated chance flips so they HAVE to rely on luck instead of being able to mitigate it. I've had games where luck was certainly on my side and then it turned in my opponents favour and still won and vice versa. If I am in a position in m2e (not m1e) that even an alpha strike decimates my crew due to some luck then I've not positioned myself very well and given my opponent something to exploit. Maybe it is more important than I originally outlined but a massive reason I moved away from other games systems to Malifaux was that luck played second fiddle to skill and knowledge. @Ausplosions: I do agree that knowing your models is more likely to put you in good standing but I think that tends to be true of masters that synergize better with a core group of models. Which is why a dual faction master wouldn't be at an advantage because they are likely not to function as well without that core set that will be taken anyway with a few spaces for outside models. But at least in m1e the pool did seem to matter. Not having Shikome for Marcus was a pretty big handicap as I understand it and if you were to buy and play with some of the starter sets I would say some would definitely put you in better stead than others. I'm not sure this is as much the case in m2e. Although it can mean you may have to use some models that may not be great at the schemes or strategy flipped.

Having read through the old thread posted about this topic I am curious what people think about Malifaux now that the 2nd edition rules have been released. Unfortunately, I can only speak from a position of the latest Beta, however, I doubt that the changes have been so severe that the gameplay has been changed completely. For me the core things that win games are most certainly skill and knowledge of the game. The former slightly more so than the later. Experience I think is more a combination of those two things than its own separate category. Luck definitely has a place but I would say to a much lesser extent than either of the other things. All this is based on the idea that both you and your opponent are not tired or distracted because both will affect the outcome too. Skill: I would classify this as your tactical ability and anything to do with player choice. So how you use your opponents' mistakes to turn a bad situation. The ability to prevent an opponent scoring points is also a huge part of this. Also managing your luck comes into skill. Have you flipped or are you holding any of the jokers? If no, then a risk may not be worth it. If yes you can judge the result. The same applies to a bad hand. It means that the deck is stacked in your favour. Resource management and timing are also massively important factors in terms of skill. Skill and knowledge of the game definitely overlap at a lot of levels but they are different enough that without the skill to take advantage of your knowledge you are at a disadvantage against a player who has little knowledge of the game but ability to adjust as they learn. Knowledge: This is pretty straight forward. Knowing the rules is massively important to winning games. Knowing both what your models can do and what your opponents models can do puts you at a great advantage. If you have the skill to apply the knowledge obviously. Also being able to match up what schemes/strategies best suit which models is probably more knowledge than skill though and would maybe rather fall under experience. The sum is definitely greater than it's parts regarding knowledge and skill. So basically experience is the most important thing but it is compromised of skill and knowledge which occur in many ways that I have not even scratched the surface of. Luck: Terrain placement and who chooses sides come down to luck often but good placement can mitigate this issue. With the new chain activation rules initiative doesn't have the potential to be quite so devastating though bad placement and risky play can leave you exposed in this regard. Also now in M2E the fact that you can't choose schemes from all schemes means that on occasion you won't get schemes that suit a strategy or your play style but that is quite obviously mitigated by experience (i.e. skill and knowledge). There are several reasons luck can win a game but it will be very rare that it is ONLY luck that wins a game. However I would say that almost as much of the skill comes in with managing your luck as it does in playing your opponent simply because you need to know how to do this in order to really play your opponent on your terms. The great thing about Malifaux is that during a turn the odds are not reset as they are with dice games. If you do have a bad hand and you have been flipping badly each bad flip gives you better chance of flipping high on your next interaction. Unless you are very unlucky and flipping high/low on the wrong actions. Also a bad hand means that after shuffling you can discard and re-draw hands and better your odds for the next turn. Jokers can turn a game around but whether they win a game is unlikely unless you are flipping an unusual amount of them. Please feel to disagree with me but I would very much like to hear what you guys think. I obviously didn't include everything I think is pertinent either.

Wow. Everything you've done is amazing. Like, sit through all 97 pages good. Finish Lucius XL!

Hey guys, new to the forums and everything. I'm also sorry if this is just adding onto the immense size of this forum and also posting on a thread that's been dead for a month. I have been wanting to add my two cents to this thread for a while though but haven't been able to due to my isp having a conflict with the site and not being able to post on the forum via a proxy site. >,< Anyway. I have been playing both Molly and Seamus for about a year and I think, like most people, that some things make these guys a bit under-powered in comparison with the other masters/henchmen in the faction/game respectively. Though they are both very fun to play. Molly specifically to me competes with any crew she joins or leads on cards for example: Seamus, Yin, and even Sybelle on Masks. Another issue she faces is that 4 of her very good spells require suits to cast. While it is understandable on Undead Construction and The Philosophy of Uncertainty as these are spells that affect the game quite drastically others it seems to detriment her reliability. I also find that Whispered Secret requiring Molly to use up important Crow cards in order to then have to cast again is a bit odd given that both Miranda and Cassandra don't have to cast two spells in order to achieve the same goal. I also find it frustrating that Molly is always left behind in a Seamus crew that has all the Belles except her buffed up by 4 Wk meaning that it's very difficult for her to actually get into range to cast offensive spells without having to use up all the action points she has and so only be able to cast in the next activation. So the changes I would suggest are fairly simple and I don't think too controversial considering the many, many ideas put forward in this thread. First, to address the movement issue, I would suggest a rule like "Seamus' Favourite" or something like that that allows her to gain +3" in stead of +2" from Seamus' Belles of the Ball ability. Granted 1" extra movement isn't huge but it does help her keep up with her friends. Like a lot of others have suggested I think Adaptive Mind or something to that effect with Crow/Mask on her casting would greatly increase her reliability in supporting a crew and diminish her very heavy card reliance. Whispered Secret I believe should not be a spell but a regular (0) action that allows Molly to select a friendly Belle or Horror in 6" and gain one of their (1) spells that can be cast once during her current activation. I'm not convinced that Molly should gain Casting Expert without being increased to 10SS. If this is something that has to be included I would suggest maybe a personalised (+1) action that allows Molly to take a wound in order to cast another (1) spell. It fits fluff wise if you call it something like "Spluttering Incantation" in line with her not being able to speak much without her choking. Alternatively a Horror model that has a similar ability to the Arcane Effigy's Conduct Aether. Anyway, That's my two cents. Thanks for reading. I did read some of the previous posts but not all 50 pages of them so if people have already suggested these things I apologise.