Kalkris

I think Jack Daw (insert groan from other people here, as I often endorse him) is the right choice for you. *Especially* given the Alice in Wonderland theme, which you'll easily be able to embellish on. Tops models you have, too!

~Lil Kalki

As a pretty avid Jack player (but one with a crummy track record), I am watching this thread intently. I hav to say that I eagerly await for the re-release of McTavish so as to try him for his anti-focus aura. I REALLY want this to work. Think he'll be worth the stones and merc tax?

~Lil Kalki

Thank you both kindly. This is as I had thought.

~Lil Kalki

Hey all,

An interesting conundrum reared its head tonight. Can the Doppelganger Mimic the Guild Pathfinder's Hunting Musket attack action? I read the cards and Hunting Musket references Clockwork Traps by name, thus referencing a model by name. My opponent posited that in the spirit of intent, Mimic should still be able to work on the Musket because it doesn't reference the model which owns that action natively, but refers to the Traps passively.

Thank you for any and all help here. This got us a bit heated and while I'm okay with whichever outcome, we played it with the ruling that the Doppelganger could not copy Hunting Musket. That said, this is purely curiosity.

~Lil Kalki

Sing me the song of your people, Math Mathonwy!

~Lil Kalki

So, at first I thought he had a button-down which was ripping, and then I realized there was a navel so there was no shirt under his jacket and thus its his skin that's ripping... lol nice touch.

I like that he is bloated because corpse bloat is a legitimate concern among the dead... Oh dear, I've said a bit too much now, hmm?

Very cool!

~Lil Kalki

Immolating Injustice - 0ss

When this Upgrade is purchased, it is attached face down. While face down, it grants the model no Abilities, Characteristics, or Actions. If this model leaves play, and it did not start the game with this Upgrade attached, reattach this Upgrade face down to the model which originally purchased it.

This model gains the Tormented Characteristic.

This model gains the following Ability:

Death by Immolation: Whenever a Condition on this model is removed or ended, this model immediately suffers 2 damage which may not be reduced. Whenever this model makes a Duel generated by or against an enemy model, this model gains Burning +1.

This model gains the following Tactical Action:

(2) Penance: Discard a card to flip this Upgrade face down.

Jack Daw, Cursed

(This torment is basically just burning at the stake, simple and plain.)

~~~~~

Mastication Injustice - 0ss

When this Upgrade is purchased, it is attached face down. While face down, it grants the model no Abilities, Characteristics, or Actions. If this model leaves play, and it did not start the game with this Upgrade attached, reattach this Upgrade face down to the model which originally purchased it.

This model gains the Tormented Characteristic.

This model gains the following Ability:

Death by Mastication: Whenever a model is summoned within 3 of this model, this model suffers 2 damage which may not be reduced. Whenever this model declares a Walk or Charge Action, the crew which purchased this Upgrade may summon a Malifaux Rat in base contact with this model. The summoned Malifaux Rat may then take a (1) Ml attack against this model before this model moves, which deals +1 damage when damaging.

This model gains the following Tactical Action:

(2) Penance: Discard a card to flip this Upgrade face down.

Jack Daw, Cursed

(This torment is derived from having a rat trapped in a metal bucket and holding the pot up to a human torso, before heating the pot. As the pot heats up, the rats attempt to escape through the only route - through the tormented party's exposed torso.)

~~~~~

So, I think we've established that I am one of the more messed-up people here, no? XD

~Lil Kalki

Agreed. Envy with The Creeping Terror is tops (and an autoinclude given the circumstances) and putting I Pay Better on another of the Seven is also workable, depending on who you want to take besides Envy. If you REALLY DON'T want to take Envy, I might put Creeping Terror on either Gluttony or Wrath (then proceeding to NOT give I Pay Better to Wrath for the sake of spreading assets around). You'll always be taking 5 C7's, so you'll never not be taking at least one of those three XD

Also, if you anticipate a master like Sonnia or the like, take Greed. Definitely take Greed if you suspect a SS-hungry master. Bring Gluttony if there's a ton of marker-centric schemes in your pool. Bring Sloth if you need to neuter opposing mobility (like against Neverborn). Take Pride if they have Arcanists or other card draw, and are not likely bringing Void Wretches (at least if they don't seem integral to the objectives). Lust is good for Turf War-esque objectives, where they need to hold a spot for a while. Envy is a heavy hitter who can focus without any problem and can hold that Creeping Terror upgrade best. Wrath is probably best in Reckoning, although he is a bit squishy.

On Malifaux Child: Keep it in your pool. You never know when Make Them Suffer is in the scheme pool (unless you already know in a preselected scheme pool).

~Lil Kalki

So, my fellow Outcasts, here's what we have to do to maintain our lead against everybody else for Week 3 and beyond:

1) Kirby, pay Aaron another 50 dollars worth of eels. You know he likes his eels. And, you know HOW he likes his eels (super spicy, but still living).

2) Asrian, you have to distract Justin by opening up skype and, on video chat, jumping up and down in your sunday best (by that I mean your birthday suit). This way he won't see us hand Aaron the bag full of spicy yet living eels.

3) Patzer, you have the toughest job yet: while Justin and Aaron are distracted by the eels and Asrian's *ahem* endowments, you need to sneak onto the mainframe of the Wyrd webstore and make it look like ALL the models in ALLLLLLLL the other factions (and games) are sold out. Furthermore, make sure the Outcast models cost 1/4 the price they do compared to the cheapest LGS you can find online (or ebay, whatever looks better on the market). This way nobody will be distracted from Malifaux, and NOBODY will have any choice to buy anything on the webstore except Outcast models. This one's a doozy. Can you handle it?

4) Kalkris, you get to organize every bit of this mission and make sure you don't -- oh wait, that's me.

There is a certain strength in spices, eels, and spicy deals. Oh, and numbers too. Let's not forget the numbers we'll be racking up in membership and points!

~Lil Kalki

YOU SAW NOTHING. NOTHING TO SEE HERE. MOVE ALONG. THESE ARE NOT THE CONSTRUCTS YOU ARE LOOKING FOR.

You should probably welsh on that deal if you haven't already done it yet XD

You were probably expecting ZFiend. Nope, Chuck Testa...

~Lil Kalki

So, what are you thinking of Daw so far? Do you think he is more/less finesse-y than Leveticus (or the Viks, or Tara)? Do you think he is better in more areas than Leve (et al)? Newcomers to Jack's Lot always make me happy and curious about their opinions.

I remember when I started out with Jack (though I mean post-Beta here, I played him during the Wave 2 Beta as well). He was surprisingly simple to pick up in a fully-thematic capacity (in 50% opacity - meaning I did not take him with other Outcast Tormented at the time, but I instead took The Hanged, Jaakuna, and Drowned for example). I enjoyed that kind of crew (and if I am being frank, I think it is somewhat better than his 100% opaque fully-thematic crew lists - Tormenting a model like Sue or Alyce with Guilty notwithstanding). I also think that the addition of the Crossroads 7 (which, by the way, did you get a hold of them at GenCon? They are soooooo good) made Jack even more amazing in either opacity, thematic or otherwise, even.

~Lil Kalki

You said on T1 you "tormented Sue and [Alyce] thanks to The Guilty". You know that unless you're making Jack take the Share Guilt action, each model taking Share Guilt can only torment a model at a time? Like, Share Guilt says that the Tormented characteristic ends when The Guilty takes the Share Guilt action another time. I am sure that the 1' (3", times 4 turns) of movement (tops) from Writhing Torment affecting one of them wouldn't have been too much of a game-changer in a game like this, but it's important to know either way.

~Lil Kalki

It's paralyzed "if it is applied by enemy models". While you are still 100% correct about friendly Nurses being unable to keep Daw from their own paralysis, this is an important distinction to bring up. It isn't just actions, it's abilities (such as Terrifying) or similar such things. Super relevant in some cases.

~Lil Kalki

Wait a moment, for some reason that isn't listed in the most recent iteration I have of the upgrades... Weird.

Ah well, Better find the more recent stuff I guess Thanks!

~Lil Kalki

Well, for starters, welcome back to Leve discussions!

Next, to answer your various questions...:

Leve works with Horseman models at a 50ss game size - but not in the way you want him to.

You need to hire the Hodgepodge Emissary with Aetherial Conflux (10ss + 0ss for the upgrade) and 3 of the 4 riders (12*3=36, so 46 total)... The issue with that is you can only hire 3/4 of the Horsemen like this in a non-Campaign game, since you have absolutely no access to aLeve, and since they each cost 12ss (and because none of them are both construct AND undead so you'd NEED the Hodgepodge Emissary to hire a third Horseman - and that sinks you 10ss for hiring), you're stuck paying 46ss for 3 horsemen and a guy on a donkey (unless you bring in your aLeve model which is a counts-as, and is mor thematic by far). I mean, the benefit here is 2 extra stones, but it's probably not much worth it. It's definitely a gimmick crew and while you *can* mitigate the lower model count with Leve and the inevitable hiring of the Mechanical Rider (seriously - you'd be a fool not to hire it here), it is a low model count and that's an issue.

As for upgrades, you just take up to 4ss of what you deem reasonable for any Leve crew (besides the Pariahs as those are now a waste due to lack of stones for hiring enough worthwhile constructs/undead). Personally, though, I would just go ahead and hire the Hodgepodge Effigy in lieu of those because 1) he is 4ss, 2) he makes soulstones when Leve kills a thing (and yes, Leve kills things), and 3) having a minion you don't expect to sacrifice offhand is a good thing in the case of schemes like Make The Suffer, et al.

So, there you have it. Gimmick crew that can't be fully thematic even if you proxy the aLeve model as the Emissary, takes up precious soulstones, and leaves you with a small model count (at first, as it can grow if you wish it to) featuring either high-end models which you will want to use as killers, or insignificant free-men to keep your Master alive (granted, the Emissary is good here because he can push things and have them drop Scheme Markers, but that requires you to have some VP scored already - although he can do it to himself at the cost of a card from your hand).

Side note: I had to reread the upgrade on the Hodgepodge Emissary and I was very saddened to see that he cannot sacrifice himself to summon in a new Rider. I thought that used to be an option and now I am a bit saddened by that. Anyone else notice that?

~Lil Kalki

I too very much enjoy how the Guilty look. I only haven;t assembled the Cross Guilty because I ran out of scenic bases and liked that one the least (And that's saying a lot about the other two because I REALLY like these). I was even debating omitting Wrath instead.... That's how I feel here hahaha

~Lil Kalki

It doesn't hurt to have one or two Guilty with your Jack Daw crew, especially where you are also taking 2 non-thematic heavy-hitters. The Guilty are great to bring them into the fold a la Abuela. They're also a royal resilient pain in the butt (especially if you can make them have Finish The Job through Sue - deterrents like those are great).

~Lil Kalki

Count me in. Looking forward to it!

Josh N.

Nu Brand Gaming

Honestly, I'd say its due to the Nythera hype. I'm satisfied with putting this on hiatus for now personally, although since I roped myself into getting the box, I can't possibly end this for good until its finished to a satisfying enough degree (and tbh we ARE pretty far, so far).

~Lil Kalki

I also think options like Hannah or Taelor work pretty well. I haven't had much use with Taelor (since I don't have her model), but I hear she is a great offensive complement to Jack Daw. Hannah is superb for that extra card, survivability, utterly (positively) dumb removal abilities (void marker shenanigans), and a decent fist.

Welcome to the fold!

~Lil Kalki

Hey all,

I posted this on AWP but I wanted to get some input from the Forum and its denizens as well:

How worth it is it to get Hired Guns? I already have the metal haul of Freikorps (+ Von Schill, who I don't really use), but would really like a second Trapper (And maybe a second Librarian). I also don't have a Steam Trunk, so if I ever want to use Von Schill, I might be a bit handicapped off of that lack. With that in mind, I've a few questions:

1) How vital is a second Trapper in some Outcast cases?
2) How vital is a second Librarian in some Outcast cases?
3) Is Von Schill a must-have master for any Outcast player (especially myself, a henchman who runs demos, but also an experienced Outcast who owns the whole faction save some outliers)?
4) How important is the Steam Trunk in Von Schill's arsenal?
5) Is having 3-4 Freikorpsmenn worth it in a non-Von Schill crew, ever?
6) Is having 2 Specialists any good in a given Outcast or Neverborn (as Mercenaries) matchup?
7) What is the second Trapper and second Librarian combo worth to you monetarily? Would adding in the Steam Trunk augment that for you in your opinion? What about adding the second Specialist and/or the third/fourth Freikorpsmenn?

#3 and #7 are big ones to me. I don't really plan on playing Von Schill in the future, but if I can be persuaded (maybe through examples of models that can be played optimally alongside Von Schill and examples of his crew being prevalent in other Outcast crews), I might be able to better justify buying Hired Guns.

Also, re: #7, keep in mind that I already have the metal crew, and I'm just trying to justify buying it in plastic (so duplicates [and quadruplicates of the Freikorpsmenn, lol] of everything but the Trunk will be available to me if so).

Thanks!

~Lil Kalki

EDIT: For context, I am most avidly a Jack Daw player with a bit of Leve, a pinch of Hamelin, and a sprinkling of Tara on the side.

I just can't ever justify Gluttony over Lust, Greed, sloth or wraith.

 

Can anyone convince of why gluttony is so good?  the 6 inch range just kills me.

so, for starters, gluttony's aura isn't that small even at "6 inches". Gluttony is on a 40mm base so that already ups that aura a bit. Plus, if you're running him as outcasts, jack or no, you can give somebody (gluttony included) The Creeping Terror to increase his aura and pulses by 1 inch more, giving you a total of 7" plus 1cm of reach effectively.

as for with Jack specifically above other masters, crooked men and shafted stack phenomenally with A Rhythm for Those who Hunger. Leve too I suppose, although you have often better things to purchase with leve than crooked men.

but ultimately, gluttony is your interaction futzer-upper in many crews. He has chatty by way of Feast!, sort of, and he punishes those who don't contribute to the Rhythm

~Lil Kalki

If you count Fingers for 10T, then you should count Mr. Tannen for Guild with Lucius.

Finally, Tara has essentially Chatty (the name of the ability is different but the effect is the same).

And Philip for Outcasts, under Bone Levi.

~Lil Kalki

Bumping for the rehash of this thread. Or is everything bueno, within a sparse 6 weeks?

~Lil Kalki

Re: Stalkers in and out of Sonnia's box: Sonnia is a bit of an outlier here. While it is very true that you shouldn't get things that come with a master unless you get that master's box, you may find yourself needing 1-2 more Stalkers if you end up using Sonnia and her Reincarnation upgrade (and if you're super lucky with keeping your initial Stalkers alive and well). Of course, that isn't reason NOT to get Sonnia's box, so I definitely agree that if you want Stalkers you should get her box.

As for other additions, I have heard wonders about adding an Executioner or two to Guild McMourning's arsenal. And while I am not 100% sure of how that works, I have heard it from numerous sources so there must be some legitimacy to the claim.

~Lil Kalki