NBmaster

Hamelin's Dog: This model may only be hired by a crew containing any Hamelin model. What does this mean then? Why would it say ANY Hamelin model as opposed to Hamelin the Plagued. does it mean that if you hire Hamelin the rat catcher with Viks or Von Schill you could also hire Nix as Viks and VS would be the only Outcast master/henchmen who can hire Nix. Or as you say Kirai, but she would have to hire Hamelin to hire nix.

Obey dose not actually say you cant do it to masters in the Obey description on the card, so it has to be something that was decided upon at a later date and then included in the rules manual. My point is that they are very similar spells so if one was essentially cuddled was hasn't the other. They are basically the same aside from having to turn a model into a beast and spending one extra ap. Just seemed odd to me and i wanted a RM, not just anyone, to explain why this was. I dont really seem any problem with having my own master obeyed at any point in the game, however i do have a problem with my masters activation being ripped from me just because i lost initiative and haven't managed my soulstones as well as i should have.

So If i am running a Zoraida crew and I hire Hamelin The Rat catcher as he is a mercenary, which also gives me the ability to hire Nix the bull terrier as he can be hired by a crew containing any Hamelin model, will it cost 7ss Nix's ss cost or will I have to pay 8ss as he is being hired out of faction. I thikn 7 my buddy thinks 8. This question also applies to Malifaux Raptors in a Zoraida crew, or guild austringer crew, Night Terrors in a Dreamer crew etc. etc.

Cool thanks for the info. Also would the duel total have any effect on the dmg flip i.e. plus or minus from the duel total. I know it starts as a negative flip which is also effected by hard to wound and the like, but would the duel total have any bearing.

Funny one of the best players in our town, the guy i was playing, is an avid Marcus player wins every time he plays Marcus , and usually manages at least 1 if not several Alphas each game. He just waits till the end of the game when ss pool is drained. The 3 activates was his own, the Master he alphas, and then the fact that you don't get to activate the model if its done before said model activates, With obey it at least dosn't use up your ap/activation. Also Marcus has wp buffs, debuffs and a starting pool of 4ss to help him achieve all of this.

Yes but when Marcus can make any model a Beast then Alpha them and then take an entire action with said model, Master, its as if Marcus himself gets 2 activations making it way more powerful than you are letting on. Especially when he can basically companion said model as it would be a beast and then activate that model and also taking that models activation from you. So its kinda like activating 3 times. Don't mean to argue i just don't think you explained it well enough by just saying its limited. Obey is actually very limited compared to alpha as you can only use it once per turn, it only gives you a 1 action or charge, and you cant do it to Masters for some reason which has also not been explained as of yet.

This has prob. been asked before but cannot find a thread on it, but why can a Master be Alpha'd but not Obeyed? Seems like almost the same thing to me, if not more broken then Obeying Masters would be.Thanks for the help in this matter.

So was playing a game last night Pandora vs. aMarcus, when i cast Self-Loathing on aMarcus the question came up as to if I could make aMarcus attack himself with his Chimeric Assault melee attack as a control card would need to be discarded to make the attack. If Self-Loathing can make aMarcus use this attack who would discard the control card (I would think it would be the me the Pandora player), as my opponent didn't want me to use this attack as aMarcus would have died at the time. thanks for the help in this matter sorry if it has already been asked.

Not sure where I picked that up thought it could have been the tactica I guess not. Thats why I said correct me if i'm wrong. maybe we just played it that way so the los issue didn't come up. But now I know you dont need to draw los after the push if you had los before the push happens so it's all good.

I am pretty sure I came to that understandnding by reading Karn's Pandora tactica.

It is my understanding that the push dosn't have to take place right away, in fact I am under the impression that pushes can be done at anytime during her activation at her descression. Please correct me if I'm wrong but couldn't Pandora finish the pacify duel then take the push, as she would also get 4 inches of push from winning the pacify duel thus being able to push up to 8 inches if she so desires, or push 4 cast pacify again, win the duel then push 8 inches or 4 or whatever she wants.

Man you must play at the same lgs as CD & CS, lol. Seems odd that your lgs would follow the Nekima alps errata which was posted by a RM but not other posts by Rm's which would also be considered rulings or ERRATA. Imo its the disconnect between the 2 countries, maybe 40k and fantasy have been so ingrained in the UK psyche that they cant fathom that the rules of Malifaux, as complicated as they are, are as straight forward as they really are. Whatever the case sounds like your lgs is full of sheep following a wolf in sheeps clothing, keep fighting the good fight and you will prevail.

Okay so just because I tabled a crew with 2 lelu's and two lilitu's by turn 4 with minimal loses winning 7 to 1 dosnt mean you shouldn't take L and L it just means they arnt hard to shut down if you know what you are doing. It also shows that they prob wont rise to the dmg hieghts that everone says they reach on as regular a basis as everyone says they will. This battle just gives me all the more reason not to play them very often as I have never really liked them to begin with because I was made to believe that you must run them to win.

It is that simple, these guys from across the pond have decided to use very specific words to try and complicate things. These are the same type of people who would post something like: special forces: doll isn't effected by any of collodi's spells or actions because they say doll, not special forces: doll (sounds really dumb I know but I have seen that very statement posted on this board by one of these guys). Semantics is being used to prey upon very select instances that arise, to poke holes in the game just because the wording on a card is slightly different from the RM even though the entent of the card is plainly obvious for all to see. This is really what is holding this gaming community back. Sorry I know this is just a rules post but I feel the question was and is tantimount to troll baiting, I.e. looking for a fight. Quit intentionaly asking dumb questions just to upset others, getting people all mixed up with how the model actually & obviously works. It just makes you have to reteach a lot of newbie players who get on and read some of this drivel and they take it as gosple.

Hey just wanted to let ya'll know I played the 40ss crew that i had posted up about ealier with the addition of Lilith to make it a brawl i have posted it in the Battle reports section. Just so you know i played against Dreamer/Lilith with 2 sets of Lelu/Lilitu and i smashed YOU KNOW WHO's theory right out of the ball park. Check out the battle report for more details Thanks.

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=26333

So I met up with some guys tonight at our lgs to get some league games in as we are currently in the middle of our Oct./Nov achievement league her in S.A. TX. I played quick 25ss Pandy vs. Dream with a new player, who had just purchased his Daydreams not minuets before, teaching him the finer points of dreamer and his alpha strike. Although i was almost tabled by the third turn I was able to rally and get 4 evidence planted and won the game while having been tabled, an achievement point no less.

Then came the main event for the evening facing off against another Neverborn Player, I decided to reveal my crew before my strategies were selected. I Decided to run:

Zoraidia +av (which i should have taken PMagic instead)

Lilith

Collodi

Marionettes x4

Doppelganger

Weaver Widow

Stitched Together

For a total of 40ss with 9ss pool

My Opponents crew:

Lilith

Dreamer

Daydreams x3

Lelu x2

Lilitu x2

Desp. Merc.

Student of Conflict attached to lil

For a total of 39ss with 10ss i believe

the Shared Strategy was: Deliver the Message

My schemes: Grudge: Student of Conflict

Assassinate: Lilith

My opponent confidently choose no schemes

Deployment was: standard my opponent won the flip so i deployed 1st by his choosing, the Location was: edge of the bog with lots of trees severe terrain and the like. I deployed behind some trees and ruins out of los of opponent who deployed all but both l/l sets

1st turn

I won the initiative, so i activated Zoraida who created a wicked doll and obeyed the WW to create a scrap counter

He activated Dreamer/Daydream combo moved dreamer up then followed with the daydreams leaving Dreamer only about 14 inches away from one of my marionettes. Not sure why he didnt alpha strike, maybe he didnt think he would make it not sure.

I activated the Doppel and mimic obey, cast on WW to make a scrap counter

He moved Lilith up 2 inches in front of Dreamer but to the right of him

WW activated made a wicked doll and failed to make a 2nd one

Think the DM moved up at this time

And then i Activated Collodi gave the dolls fast and then gave 2 dolls Melee Expert and then activated the Stitched which ran up 2 wk actions, then activated the marionettes.

The f1st one took a wk then a 3 inch wk with a pull string on Collodi bringing him b2b then another wk with the fast action. The 2nd spent a 0 to retract to b2b an then took a wk then charged the Dreamer defended against the doll. the 3rd then retracted and charged Lilith also hit her with 2 more attacks having fast and MExpert. The 4th retracted and I believe attacked the Dreamer maybe with a flurry but didnt manage to scratch the little dude. Didnt do any dmg but a few ss were deff burned.

He then moved up his SoC thus ending all his activations

I then activated the 1st wicked doll who used a 0 to be moved withing 2 inches of Collodi to attack the Dreamer which after 3ap (fast) and a MExpert action i was able to do 2wds and a poison. The 2nd wicked doll didnt fair as well against Lilith not doing any dmg but did manage to tag a near by daydream for 1wd.

My Lilith then activated run up by the stitched then use MoM to charge the other Lilith through a section of ruins. I believe she managed to do 3 dmg to the other Lilith

2nd Turn

I won the initiative again (love you Doppel)

So i activated Collodi gave all the dolls fast and gave 2 of them MExpert i also made a wicked doll activate next. It did and sacrificed itself to deal 2wds to Lilith and give her slow (didnt realize till a sec later i have given MExpert to the WD). I then activated the marionettes Making Lilith burn some more soulstones. I then killed the Dreamer forcing my opponent to unbury Chomp and the L/L combos the lelus on the right with Chompy in some woods and the 2 Lilitus on the left on the backside of Collodi about 5 inches back I then proceed to deal some dmg to one of the Lelu's and to move a marionette between the lilitu's and Collodi also dmging 1 of the Lilitu's

My opponent then Activated Lilith using his 2ap to do the whirling death which he had to cheat to miss his own models and only killed 1 of my marionettes

I then answered back with my Lilith who Finished off one of the Lelu's and did 3dmg to Lilith bringing her to 6wds

Chompy then tried to eat my Lilith but only managed 6wds and exhusting his ss supply.

At this point my 2nd wicked doll activated and delivered the message to Lilith scoring me 3vp

The only Lelu left activated choosing to bond only with one lilitu so the lelu could go first. He charged my Lilith but to no avail she dodged his charge and MExpert attacks. The 1st Lilitu then activated and attacked a marionette dealing 1wd and lured Collodi twice hitting once but i moved the dmg over to the marionette which had already been dmg thus killing it.

I then used Zoraida to make another wicked doll and obey the stitch to attack a lelu but nothing happened

The Daydreams made some attacks but didnt kill anything

Dopple obeyd to try for a doll but nothing

Desp Merc charged collodi but missed

WW tried to create some dolls but didnt work out

The SoC charged a marionette doing nothing

My last wicked doll then ported to collodi and did 1dmg to Lilith. Stitched then Gambled the Lelu and won once dealing 3 to the lelu and lost once dealing 3 to himself

3rd Turn

I got initiative again

Collodi summoned a marionette gave MExpert to 3 dolls which did 2 more dmg to Lilith Killed the Soc (nabbing me 2vp) and killing 1 lilitu

His Lilith then went Killing 3 marionettes and hit his Desp Merc trying to kill it for the heal flip only doing 3wds, so no flip, with whirling strikes and hit Collodi doing 4 dmg with the fast action

My Lilith activated next and dispatched of Chompy along with the 3 daydreams with 2 ap and hit the Lelu for 3dmg i think

After that his L/L combo activated Lelu delivered the message and then killed Lilith and tried to lure Collodi with the Lilitu missing on all 3 attacks

Zoraida then summoned a voodoo doll on the lelu and obeyed it to attack Lilith but missed

Doppel moved up twice next to the stitched

WW tried for dolls but nothing happened

My stitched then gambled the lelu and got severe killing it

At the end of this turn the Desp Merc was killed cause he didnt have a ss to spend on it

Turn 4

Again i won initiative

Activated Collodi popped out another doll and proceeded to Kill Lilith

His Lilitu, now his only model left on the board tryed to lure Collodi to no avail 3 times

I then moved Zoraida up using raven

Then had the Doppel mimic 10wp and gamble your life moved into position and cast it on on the Lilitu doing severe dmg killing the Lilitu.

Game ends turn 4 with a complete wipe of his models and a score of 7-1 my favor. So all in all i only lost my 4 marionettes and a Wicked Doll which I sacrificed.

It was a great game that really showed that no matter how much SOMEONE recommends only using L/L combo it can still be overwhelmed very easily and is not always the best thing to run for Neverborn in tournament or otherwise.

Some might say that i lost because my opponent didn't alpha strike me but i also deployed basically in a straight line across the back of the deployment zone so he prob couldn't have gotten to me any way which is why he didn't try. Now i will also say that he was way too gung ho about getting dreamer up into the fray but then again this is a guy who bought Nightmare Chomp through the web when it came out at Gencon he also has at least double the models i do and i own all 4 NB masters and Collodi, So i would at least call him a seasoned player if not a vet.

Again just wanted to point out that L & L arn't the best things since sliced bread that everyone makes them out to be.

Which was plainly obvious until all the confusing semantics came into play hence my first post. If leading questions wernt asked the opportunity for error would arise alot less on this board.

Pity is still the only one to use as Pandora and Sarrows do dmg when WP duels are lost in their presence. PE + Dementia, within 4 inchs of Pandora sarrows and doppelganger with Pandoras zoe = almost instant death to anything still left to activate

Wow some of you guys must not have realized that there arnt any jobs in the field of semantics before getting your Phd's.

With Collodi I have found that the marionettes are mostly for the movement, the wicked dolls are the attack squad (0 action to move b2b w Collodi anywhere on the board) and stitched together wich block los untill you are in range. With Collodi leading the crew in a 20ss game you get to field 27ss worth of model, thats 4 marionettes, 3 wicked dolls, and 2 stitched. This is kinda a 2 trick pony kind crew but I managed to table Lucius turn 3 the other day with this exact crew. The only problem is you can't get more wicked dolls so, I prefer to use Collodi with Zoraida I have a great 40 point crew that I like to play

Zoraida

Collodi

marionettes x4

Doppelganger

Weaver Widow

Stitched together x1 or wicked doll x2

I guess the lilith thing could kind work what with illusionary forest for blocking los but Collodi really needs more wicked dolls to be effective with the 40ss list I just gave you could have 3 extra wicked dolls per turn, voodoo doll and 2 obeys

That's interesting MindWarp because the action is listed under the heading of Talents on the info sheet of the Widow Weaver. That would make an Action a Talent thus making it mimicable

Yes, I am asking if

a. The counter is created

b. does the dopple get to hold on to it

c. and if not can another model get said counter

Can the Doppelganger mimic the Weaver Widow's action,

(1) Thread from Nightmare: This model may discard two Control Cards to gain one corpse or scrap counter. This Action may be taken only once per activation.

I believe the doppelganger could mimic this Action as it does not mention any specific models so the real question, would Doppelganger be able to hold onto the scrap/corpse counter as she does not have Grave Robber or Scavenger, nor can it mimic either,which i have been lead to believe a model must have to interact with scrap/corpse counters . If the doppel cannot interact with said counters would they still be created and available for other models such as the Weaver Widow to interact with them by taking a (1) action to pick them up or move by them to pick them up or something to that effect.

Thanks in advance for a response, just trying to figure out exactly how these models will synergize

Doppelganger may be able to copy any talent even a (2) talent, but it CANNOT copy anything SPELL, ACTION, or otherwise that specifically mentions a model by name. Voodoo Doll is a specific model summoned by Zoraida so it just can't happen. Post it in the rules discussion if you think I a wrong, but I'm not. The doppelganger can't copy any summon spell because all summon spells mention a specific model by name. The doppelganger may be able to copy a place a certain type of minion spell, like place buried nightmare or something, but if there is any mention of a models name its a no go

Actually doppelganger can't copy spells that mention models by name and the doppelganger can't copy (2) spells only (1) spells. The doppelganger can copy obey and have the ww create a scrap counter or a doll if a scrap counter has already been acquired. The doppelganger may be able to mimic Thread From Nightmare, scrap counter action, but I have been told that actions and things like nightmare, scavenger, etc. are not mimicable as they are not talents which I disagree with the actions part but not the other a the doppelganger would have to have scavenger to even pick up scrap counters. Please correct if wrong.