Stonedog-7

The pair of them are certainly some of the best models in the game and I do personally value them at more then 14ss for a pair of them. But I do find their 14ss price tag to be a bit hard to swallow at times. They certainly have some major drawbacks for the pair of them and I don't believe people are giving that enough credit. But is it enough to call the 14ss price tag enough? That's quite a loaded question

Just to throw my opinion in there on this point, i'd say if you took them individually without "Same Malignant Force", so no wound loss but no double-dipped healing either i'd happily pay 8ss for either, maybe even 9 for lilitu and i reckon they'd still be a steal...

Whether the downsides are enough to pay only 14ss for both, Karn's right, loaded question

But in larger points games, say 40ss+, i'd say i'd rarely not bring the twins... in smaller games like 25ss, then 14 is a hell of a pricetag to justify... 35ss, the "standard" game size, it's alot but not expensive enough to be really prohibitive if you accept they'll likely form the cornerstone of your list

@DAGabriel: Yeah, i'll try to remember to pack up all sorts of my painted Malifaux stuff in the next few weeks, bring it back from the club and get some proper pictures taken and put up

The one thing I have found from playing against them is even though individually they are reasonably tough as soon as one of them dies the second one dies almost immediately afterwards.

So even if Lelu is a bit tough for a 7ss model with his abilities. Is he too tough for a 14ss model.

This.

Our local Lilith player (only person who currently runs the twins at all) has been having some major issues justifying the twins at 14ss over 2 Youngs for 12ss

Sure, they have a host of amazing abilities but they're dependant on each other (particularly in a lilith crew where there's no additional mitigation for them if one dies)... and after my first game against them when Lelu ripped into a few cheap models and absolutely destroyed them i've now had no issues countering him with my rezzers by waiting until after he's activated, drawing him out with lures and making sure he drops fast (usually turn 2) with a combination of a Convict Gunslinger and McMourning/Flesh Construct to put him down... and with rezzers i've got no issues out-activating him and wouldn't particularly worry about doing the same with Seamus or dropping a few heavy hitters on him with Kirai

All that said, i've got no experience dealing with them in a Dreamer crew and i'd imagine that gets pretty traumatic with the Lelu's damage output

Thanks for the advice guys, but i think i'll be sticking to cutting the tab down, it's honestly the quickest and easiest approach i've found short of buying myself a new dremmel and that does include trying different thickness drill bits

However, the last points are good to note for the OP

About 1.5mm, not sure on the exact size off hand... as opposed to the veritably tiny 0.5mm that i hate using... smallest part i've used this on so far would probably be a Crooked Man's foot, and the pin and subsequent hole in the base isn't visible under the foot in the slightest

Personally i love the necropunk models (well, 2 of them) and will use them quite often with McMourning, but their leap just isn't reliable enough even though overpower and their combat abilities are reasonable (for a 3pt model anyway)

Night Terrors have become my go to objective pieces for both McM & Seamus at the downside of not leaving behind a corpse but Spirit & Hard to Kill makes them a nightmare for people to take out and i've only been using 2 at the moment... splitting a pack with our marcus player soon so i'll then have 3 to really work Flock Together some more

My biggest issue currently is resisting using them to jump anything, the only useful thing they've done for me in combat aside from die was tie up Rasputina (and NEVER use them to jump anything with black blood, fail fail fail, worse than dogs for that)

Having gotten fed up hand drilling some really awkward pieces i now use a saw to cut the tab down to the width of a "normal" pin and drill the base, has made my life a whole lot easier

Well, the other option that i'm looking at, as i'm getting Ophelia mainly touse with Zoraida but i also just don't like the aesthetics of Somer & the pigs, is to get another Outcasts crew for the flexibility at crew creation

Declare Outcasts and then people don't know if they're up against Ophelia or any of the other possibilities that can play very differently... only downside is you're not likely to be getting models that can be swapped between the crews much

It's similar to what i want to try out with Mortimer to help generate a few extra bpc more reliably than Sebastian

My limited advice would be - too many dogs... don't try to run McM as a summoner instead let him summon when you don't need to use Scalpel Slinging and have him go carve people up... use the crew to set stuff up for him with the belles, weaken stuff with the convict...

a single dog or two for gathering corpse counters could be handy but not essential but for objectives Night Terrors are awesome and are quickly proving themselves to be more realiable than necropunks to me, though with the downside of not leaving corpses

At 30ss i'd seriously consider dropping 2 dogs, 1 belle & 1 Stone or Mortimer & 1 Dog in favour of Von Schill, Bete Noir or maybe even Killjoy (though i haven't tried him and he is more expensive) or the cheap option of a couple of PZ's... hell, 2 canines & 1 stone gives you a PZ which would probably serve the list better even if it's only as one hell of a deterrant for people closing on MCM himself if you keep it nearby

I'm guessing Mach 5's point was because it's blasts and a spell, getting 2Dg blasts through without the damage being halved is pretty nice for a 4SS model

And although i said i'm hooked on them and likely will be for a while, i can see Calmdown's point, the board control element i got was massive, but as people learn to cope with shafted markers (using more disposable models, taking the hit on the chin) rather than assuming the worst is about to happen (killed/paralyzed) then that same board control is going to be lessened massively, and sure the bury trigger is nice, but it's on a crow that alot of other models in a rezzer crew will want

All that said i'll definitely be recommending one to our new Levi player, the ability to hand out a crow would suit a crooked man in combat down to the ground

Thought so, thanks for the confirmation

Having just got hold of 2 Crooked Men and testing 1 out last night with McMourning alongside 2 Belles I have to say i'm hooked... didn't get a chance to use the melee attack and didn't use Cave-in but putting down 1-2 Shafted markers a turn really left my opponent struggling for position

3 wounds isn't much, but the threat of paralyse/death was massive when to go round the marker meant losing speed to terrain and not moving them away/past the marker meant the threat of a belle luring them into it

Next game i definitely want to test 2

Quick question, can an opponent cheat the flip for shafted? we ruled no as it's not one of the specified things you can cheat and it doesn't state you can, but figured i'd ask

Well, here goes, apologies for the photos being taken in a hurry at the games club

Have since tidied up McM's shirt and damn has the flash done a horrible number removing the shading i did on his apron, oh well

PM sent

I'll throw a vote in for both KR & Feldherr...

- I have a Feldherr mini that i use as a portable painting setup at work and i really want the next one up or another mini for transporting Malifaux

- KR cases I also swear by, having a "standard" sized Kaiser1 and a couple of extra cases for my WarmaHordes forces, the option to by half-wide foam is a god send in terms of customizing between small & large figures... A friend of mine also bought one of the tiny cases but without a hard shell of even card (though their padded materials are good) i'm not completely sold on it myself, but he is more than happy with it for not having to transport more than small minis

I'd say for the volume & versatility you seem to be after KR will be very hard to top for the cost i think

I can see how McMourning with Precise could cause a world of hurt to hoffman, but what i'm not wrapping my head round currently is how he'd do it personally without either getting pegged by Ryle on the way in or getting hammered by the counter-attack

Any suggestions for any of the other masters or for minions in general beyond "hug cover"

I'm also guessing that Seamus would be a massively sub-par choice with the constructs having Immune to Influence

From all the models I can recall at the moment, only Canine Remains and the new Rafkin have to pick up counters for their abilities. That is pretty marginal.

McMourning is the main one for me certainly, he has to pick up the corpse counter to be able to split it into body parts (or have another model pick it up to ferry it to him) and it's the situation that had come up in my last game... as for not being a significant thing to pick them up, quite often that's 1 ap to move that you're not spending on other things, though you are right in that alot of the truly counter dependant people don't need to pick up the counter

Thanks for the replies though, my confusion definitely seemed to stem primarily from the wording of "replaced" and "Replaced"

Well, personally i run Rezzers, primarily McMourning & Seamus but do have a Kirai crew (and yes, i'm well aware that with Kirai i should have few problems dismantling a hoffman crew, ignoring armour ftw)

But locally we also have a Lady J/Rasputina player (bossman who commented earlier) and a marcus player and all of us will have to face Hoffman & Ryle at some point

Any tips for an opponent in coping with Ryle in a Hoffman crew being protected by a guardian?

:bump:

No bans or houserules in Hastings, UK

That said there's all of 4 of us, slowly getting a couple more showing interest, and we play for fun, so the Lilith player doesn't touch the full on grow list or Lilitu/Nekima lure shenanigans, i dont break out Pandora often (particularly not with Lilitu) unless someone literally asks for it

Just a quick question out of interest as you mention walking away from the Dreamer and Dreamer/Alps seperately

Is it purely the Dreamer or specifically Dreamer with Alps and is there a certain number of alps (say just 2) that you might consider playing against?

Purely asking as there's no dreamer players locally yet (though myself and one other person have both been considering him) and am curious

Maybe that's just me then, i've been finding rezzers supply of cheap minions makes them surprisingly good at the interact/movement based schemes... though any strategy that requires a (2) Interract pretty much begs me to break out Kirai for Swirl Spirits fun

Cool, hadn't thought about using Massive Dose to grant reactivate purely for interracting with things, always got caught up on using it for carving things up... that's not a bad idea to keep tucked away for when i break out a nurse

I'm not finding it all that confusing, Ratty's explanation seemed pretty solid

The only part that baffles me slightly is the logic behind

At the end of the Damage Resolution Phase any Wounds Taken is the amount of Damage a attack has caused. Even if this total is 0 Damage, the attack counts as damaging as it has went through the Damage Resolution Phase.

Surely it would have been easier to count Soulstone Wound Prevention as a final step in damage resolution and if the total was 0, then no damage was dealt... but then i'm not a rules marshall and don't study the rules interractions all that closely myself

That said, if that's the ruling then that's how i'll play it... worst case the occasional time when a damage does 0 with an "on damage" effect will get brushed over *shrug*