dancater

Interesting placement Jordon, don't disagree with almost anything you've said, especially for Colette my favorite master who is treading water while the tide is going out.

Two biggest points of agreement is that GG 2018 will shake things up more than book 5 and that the book 5 inclusions have more narrowed the meta than made some masters amazing or others crippled, at least for the Union lads and lasses.

My placement varies from yours, partly for this reason.

1. Marcus got good upgrades and ever more nasty Beasts with a legit (if niche) poison build
2. Sandeep not huge boost in book 5 so a tiny slide but his position reflects how good he was and continues to be
3. Ironsides because she did get a massive boost and I think GG 2018 (100% agree this will have the seismic impact on meta) will emphasize her crew build over Ramos
4. Ramos (and this was close, its more position 3.4 v 3.6) still mainly a summoner but got flexibility, not much added in terms of crew options but its amazing to see a book 1 master whose crew still looks much like it did in book 1 while maintaining high competitiveness 
5. Kaeris got some great upgrade in book 5 if not much crew help, makes her a fast, dangerous and durable master
6. Raspy, her FH crew is still great and now the weaker options can be summoned in , she got some nice vectors in book 5 upgrades and the summons make up for the lack of direct crew support (really surprised you placed her so low Jordon, this was my one clear disagreement)
7. Colette, as has been observed she is basically static (post the nerf) while books 4 & 5 has seen opposing masters get tools which specifically cripple some of her tricks and other Arcanist masters have been given a real boost.  I actually fear GG 2018 could knock the ladies into the cellar
8. Mei is a still solid, which is a nice reflection for where Arcanists are, but book 5 upgrades a resource intensive and minimal theme force help.  Speed, durability wise Kaeris is now better, durability and damage wise Ironsides wins out.  Mei's strongest play is a hard counter vs primary ranged builds and good selection vs Rezzers, particularly the Reva filth.  But feel every master above her has more reliable and flexible play.  Except maybe Colette who currently schemes far better than Mei and in GG 2017 that is dominant but seems likely that GG 2018 could flip the meta-table.   

Difficult to say with certainty as I have not played enough with all the masters but that I guess is part of the question and the fun.

I'm taking the angle on both competitiveness and crew theme.

Top:

• Sandeep is still the toolbox, book 5 did not much for him as a master but he did score an interesting henchman.  Overall as flexible as he ever was, what weakening has happened is more because competition, both in-faction and out, has improved than he has got worse.
• Marcus got a solid boost, he has a new upgrade that adds another niche but valid play style, his crew is simply getting more flexible and adaptable.  Also some interesting new Beast options mean that the Professor of the Wild is a book 5 winner.  Also poison is a thing.
• Ironsides is jumping in here as her upgrades have finally made her the tar-pit damage dealer that it looked like she was meant to be but never quite was, not as flexible as the others but what she does she does well and its a almost invaluable ability, to get in the middle and disrupt.  Not much huge crew wise I guess but M&SU was already pretty solid with great options although the Medical Automaton looks really intriguing.

The Seconds:

• Ramos got a sideways option more than a boost, I think his upgrades were great but competition wise they provide an option more than a huge boost or new vector.  Basically I still see Ramos as the master-mass-summoner and it appears GG 2018 will move towards tempering the power of summoning somewhat.  Not a huge extra options crew wise.
• Rapsy got interesting upgrades which really add character and options but in all honestly competitively I see little huge change, might surprise a few folks but top tier its still mostly ice blasting, she is to slow without a charge to really melee it up and the summons while interesting is not really a big enough thing to legitimately turn her into a summoning master. Also no Frozen Heart, although lets face facts what FH models exist are already mostly really good.
• Kaeris got a really great boost and has I think jumped forwards, maybe even more that I think, like her Union sister Toni she is slowly looking like the master on the table that I imagined her to be reading the fluff and in concept.  Still she is more the dink and dunk master than the brawler and honestly I think the close games are more often won while bashing heads in the middle of the chaos.  Crew wise I did not see anything Arcanist pyromaniac.

The good but struggling 

• Colette between her recent (justified) nerf and the interesting but sideways grade upgrades the Mistress of the Star is solid but lacks power and durability in the face of recent book 4 and 5 options that opponents received.  Basically I think Colette is as good as she always was but as the meta creeps forward she is seeing more hard counters to her tricks and the steady progress of masters who can do the scheme thing as well as her or otherwise prevent some of her crews tactica.  Her book 5 upgrades added flare but not flame, and no Showgirls on the book 5 playbill.
• Mei is interesting, her upgrades looked to add to her schtick and give her much the same character = table that notably Toni and Kaeris got, but.... resource intensive for dubious damage and mobility return, other Arcanist masters do everything Mei does and provide a little extra on top.  She still has her niche and is still solid and can take most games but if I wanted to reliably compete than not my first or second choice.  Foundry got noting and generally book 5 felt underwhelming for the Lady of Rails.   

He was errata'd to a 50mm base long ago, my guess is you have an old pre-errata box.

You could contact Wyrd, me I'd just scrounge a 50mm, someone will have an extra somewhere.

3 hours ago, retnab said:

I do love that Rasputina has a personal Malifaux Child with Significant and Devour (especially in the Gremlin matchup).  IMO if you're taking Wendigo (which you should), Cold Nights becomes basically mandatory.  Although now the Wendigo summoning Ice Gamin on 10's could definitely be nice with Frozen Servants too

And as Cold Nights and Frozen Servants are not limited they can be taken together so it provides the flexibility to perform either action.  While I imagine summoning Ice Pillar's is much preferable in most games (notably as its simply less resource dependent) I can see occasion for the little furry Gremlin eater to pop out the odd Ice Gamin when the opportunity presents.  I now need to check the wording of the respective card, can he do both in a single activation??

Also needs to be said for at least the next few months...

Regarding power level meta the Book 5 master upgrades, including Raspy's will shake things up quite a bit.  Looking at things I doubt it will have a huge impact on Raspy as being 'slow and static' she still essentially will be but the new upgrades look like they will add some nasty options.

I suspect that it will take a month or two to shake things out and I also think Raspy will remain a solid mid-range option who runs well with inexperienced players and presents a challenge to 90% of opponents.  Raspy's crew (with FH) is hard to neutralize (immune to horror is a big deal) and with her raw spell power she can lay down the hurt hard, her crew is also largely very good, the FH models with one exception are all very solid in there niche and the exception (Ice Golem) is still deadly if hard to optimize and now can be summoned with an upgrade.

Rasputina is mid-tier as she is a bit slow and not hugely durable not to mention her primary attack vector is obvious but she's got a superb durable crew which adds both speed and flexibility.  So I imagine she'll stay super-competitive mid-range.

For Raspy you want Frozen Heart first and foremost as pointed out.  With her new Book 5 upgrades she has really got some new options, in particular the Ice Gamin and Ice Golem summoning option is huge, especially for the Golem.

You really need..

1. December Acolytes because they are just that good, one of the truly powerful all-round Arcanist minions and FH as well makes them 11/10 for the Ice Witch.
2. Snowstorm is a solid henchman who brings good things the Raspy.
3. Ice Dancers are really necessary for Raspy to bring much needed speed and scheme running.
4. Blessed of December is a useful and fast hitter with a bit of 'everything'. A common, if slightly cheesy, option is to bring Myranda (from the Marcus box) and shape change into the Blessed.
5. The Silent Ones are useful but they are really Raspy lite and increase what she does well while not adding something really different like the FH models above, however with the heal and other abilities you rarely regret taking one.

Quite a few other Arcanist models which you can take, a few mercs as well.  All could be useful but as pointed out Raspy does really well within her theme, the FH models are most first class and they all help Raspy a lot.

I guess this forum is as good a place as any to post, often new players pick a faction and post in the respective faction forum for advice but you've managed to cover 4 factions in your choices so that would not really work.

So welcome, where to start....

Well Book 5 has just come out with new master upgrades which is going to really shake up the general play of every master and will, until folks have played things out a bit, make any advice on master/crew - beginner - tactics be really more guidelines.

I would say that maybe you want to consider a faction as that will give you more coverage and cross-playability in your crews and let you play more variety for cheaper price.  Malifaux is not a single crew game, the play method of schemes-strats-opposing faction means that its rare that a single master will provide you complete coverage without some painful hard counter (there are tool box master exceptions who are at least OK to good in most games), and this is doubly true of a restricted crew selection.

Now I like to theme my crews, even though it is often not "optimal" and I generally go (for a standard 50SS) about 35-40SS as my theme, the 'core crew' and then another 10-15SS which is whatever mercs and in-faction allies my merry bad of murderous misfits will need.  I think this is a good mindset to balance in-theme against pure crew optimisation, but its up to you.

So the crews you've highlighted, I've ordered them by play style because ultimately you want to play the game:

• Ironsides (Arcanist) she is tough and with the new upgrades looks very good, but she is a brawler master who wants to mix it up so can be rough on new players.  Her in-theme is pretty open as her main crew support is M&SU which gives a good range of models.  Aesthetically well I like Arcanists they are my main faction but this is such a personal thing that is a place I cannot give real advice.  Likely to make Toni Irons really rock you'll need the Ramos crew box as Joss and Howard Langston are simply to good not to use with Ironsides, might need to think about if that works for you.
• Viktoria's (Outcast) are a scalpel, executioners, ultimate glass cannon.  The Vik bomb where henchman Vik flys across the field like a frenzied feral cat with steel tipped claws is truly a thing to behold and justly feared... but the sisters are also very fragile so this in a different way to Toni Irons is also a crew which does not forgive the mistake.  I'll note the only crews you have mentioned which cross faction are Outcasts so that is worth noting and with the more mix and match nature of Outcasts and the fact many of them can later merc into crews of any faction these ladies are a solid option, Vanessa is also a good model.
• Von Schill (Outcast) is a dependable and solid master and crew, tough and work-a-day but not spectacular, not a bad crew to intro and learn the game but you'll rarely have that epic game where everything simply works and you dominate.  Several Friekorps models are staples in other crews and excellent for the old merc boss also his book 5 upgrades look interesting, again lots a mercs and cross over to other crew potential.
• Titania (Neverborn) was widely considered the disappointment of the book 4 release and her crew was thought of as low tier, however word is book 5 upgrades and other models have really looked like giving the fallen queen a boost so guessing she'll be more vigorously fighting for her lost throne soon, as a starting master she is very scheme and tricks dependant, probably not ideal.  Between book 4 & 5 a good Fae crew seems very possible and there is some interesting potential cross over to other NB masters, particularly Zoraida if you're so inclined.   
• Sonnia Criid (Guild) the mistress of flame and the Witch hunter commander is a flat dangerous master and book 5 has further provided options but generally she needs non-theme Guild support to shine, in particular many Guild players take the Ortega Francesco, if you hate the mexi-western look then that is probably bad.  She is a solid master with a fairly basic and productive schtick of smashing opponents with a long range conflagration of vengeful fires so not a bad starting master IF you take a good cross section of Guild support, if you don't then she is vulnerable to alpha strikes and has limited tricks, experienced opponents will smack you quickly.  Guild has some interesting masters and has received several recent boosts, they also have some great starting masters, but the thematic of gunslingers and automatons is something you need to embrace.

Honestly looking at it I'd go Von Schill and the Viks and get a few models like Lazarus, the Strongarm suit, Vanessa among others to further support both crews, start your first few games with the more forgiving Von Schill and when you feel you have a handle on the basic mechanics unleash the sisters Vik and try to get the sibling whirlwind of death singing its dirge. 

Schemes and Stones is an excellent podcast which in its back catalog provides insight (now slightly out of date) on all these masters and is worth listening to.

On 8/4/2017 at 12:32 AM, Aaron said:

Last, but not least, people wanted to know more about the Tarot deck! The deck is made of regular card stock, and you can see it better below.

So these cards look superb but....

77mm x 127mm (3in x 5in) or a 80mm x 130mm card sleeve...

A really odd size, not classic tarot (which is 70mm x 120mm) sleeve size, it looks like it may be tough to find a good sleeve which is a pity because gaming is hard on cards and these look nice so any thoughts...

Thoughts on appropriate sized card sleeves for these beautiful cards?

I'm certain I posted my purchase of TTB 2nd ed, no confirmation e-mail or anything, is there any way to confirm that I made a valid application and should expect something?

I've had a recent bad run with the post between Wyrd and my distant Australian lair, I suspect gremlins have infiltrated the mail lines and whatever Guild enforcers should clear them out have been on break.  Either way I am not certain what I should do to confirm I should expect something and when or in the alternative if something went wrong elsewhere such as with my original application to the promo.

2 hours ago, WWHSD said:

Mechanical Porkchop isn't going to be in the same crew as Rasputina. It's a Gremlin model that only makes it into Mei Feng crews by way of being Foundry.

If all Arcanists could take him he'd be a staple in Ramos crews.

Good point but the rest of the post is nevertheless valid.

I will one day have two Golem's and more Gamin than Archie can count up without his extra arm on the field.

Honestly think Sandeep angst is both justified and overblown at the same time...

• He is a tool box and I think may with his summons, variety and vectors he and his crew may be a little bit to adaptable.  Its an open question because Malifaux relies so heavily on the scheme and strat pool and GG 2018 and beyond will shake this up as always but.  Sandeep seems to be at least the solid second choice Arcanist master going into every scheme-strat-opponent match up he is that useful and adaptable that while a specialist list may (??) take the best option choice Sandeep will run and run well.  This means that a experienced and good Sandeep player can garner two advantages (1) they will have a good list running into the game (2) they will understand the list and the core models in it (particularly Sandeep himself) very well (much better than a rare used niche list).  In a game with so many scheme-strat-opponent combinations this advantage is HUGE.

• Having said that he is not the strongest Arcanist master running into most games and his 'newness' is fading which means opponents will be increasingly keyed in to preventing his primary strategies and tricks.  
• Honestly a number of Book 4's masters seem (and still are) perhaps a little shall we say out of proportion power wise; notably Sandeep, Nellie, Asami and Reva have all garnered real forum angst.  I've heard that Zipp can be a nightmare.  I think this is also why Titania and Parker have coped so much flak they are both OK but in a release which saw some really powerful new crews and those crews largely super flexible and with real strength to counter faction weaknesses then OK is sub-par.
• The book 5 master upgrades are really going to shake things up as is GG 2018 I suspect. 

Also Joss is a solid model and generates scrap.  I would not normally take him with Raspy but I am tempted to trial a summon based list just for experiment and giggle value and he'd probably be included.

Along those lines the Mech Rider, Mech Pork Chop and Large Steam Arachnid all generate extra scrap although again inclusion with Raspy's already great (and theme heavy ) crews is a question....

And all of this neglects the possibility that your opponent brings scrap, there are a fair number of good constructs across the factions and which see play and several masters which really run in construct heavy crews.

So 100% agree that seeing a large Gamin and Golem horde is likely to be rare it is not by any means inconceivable that you could start a Raspy list with a couple of Ice constructs and perhaps other scrap generators and then roll into an opponent running Ramos or Levi or Hoffman or simply an opponent running with a few constructs.  Then a point in the game where you have 4+ Ice Gamin or a pair of Ice Golem is certainly not outside the realm of possibility.  

But yeah mainly that would be a useful bonus which means I could use all the models in a Nightmare Rasputina box beyond just as alts for the two unique pieces (Raspy and Wendigo) and also variant models for Gamin and Golem I already have.  Simply making the point that myself as a long time Raspy player and owner who is at least trying to curtail their Malifaux spending into the realm of the non-OCD could still justify the cost of a nightmare Raspy box at a Wyrd sale (including the ever troublesome triple  twist which is shipping to Australia ) because I could argue with my more sensible nature (which I keep in a box and torture occasionally) that all the models have potential value.

Mostly however I just think it will be fun. 

16 hours ago, retnab said:

If we're doing full on Nightmare crew boxes, I'd love it if Rasputina got the Tara treatment and Raspy, the Wendigo, and the Ice Golem got brand new cool poses (and the Ice Gamin too I suppose but I'm already pretty happy with them).

When I think about this it is an amazing it has not been suggested already.

Raspy nightmare would really cover a lot.  

1. Raspy re-sculpt, I like her current and alt-sculpt but several folks have mentioned they'd like something different.
2. Ice Golem alt which provides both an alt-model and a second golem now Raspy can summon them.
3. Alt-Wendigo, here I suggested an alt sculpt myself, I don't like the current Wendigo so this would be a  for me.
4. Some extra Ice Gamin, because one why not, 2 the alt's could look cool, 3 Raspy can summon them now and 4 why not...

So this is a more long-term thing, at least a year but has a lot going for it, definitely scope for a nightmare cannibal crazy ice witch and her frosty ice minions, several sculpts folks seem to want and plenty of the models in the box could be used even by people who like the older sculpts and have the Raspy box because with summons Raspy can field quite a few Golem and Gamin.  

21 minutes ago, MudgeBlack said:

Thats a big part of why I asked, so I know how many Brotherhood of the "Cat" boxes to get Black Fri.

 

Thanks for all the feedback.

Always a pleasure when someone has already asked the question I have in mind.

Thanks to everyone who is providing advice.

An Angelica alt for Dark Carnival would get my  positive vote.

From a use perspective and availability...

• an alt Sabertooth Cerberus
• an alt Ice Golem

Both models which only appear in crew boxes and may have multiple units fielded (the tri-cat is plain good and the Ice Golem can be summoned).

From a henchman that has uses with a master not their "own" so would be nice to be accessible without the crew box, Arcanists have many, so in a rough order (for mine)

• Myranda
• Cassandra (maybe equal top with Myranda)
• Joss, although there is a alt model for him but it is difficult to get
• The Captain, expensive seen less frequently

Note the Firestarter has an alt-sculpt which while not super accessible has been sold online and I've seen in secondary market and trade forum.

For a model's I'd love to see done alt-version aesthetically

• The Wendigo, really unlikely as it is a master specific totem and really has narrow appeal and is a small model, but I dislike the current sculpt
• Myranda, she appears on two lists so would really like to see her done, dislike the current sculpt
• Ironsides, she is simply meh and does not inspire me as a master with gravitas on current sculpt

Overall I really like or am at least satisfied with the vast majority of the Arcanist range.  Not many models I'd say demand a rescuplt.  So it would more be about adding player convenience (by giving us an alt sculpt of a model which is otherwise only in a full crew box we [a] might not want or might only want to get the one when the model is likely to be fielded in duplicates in some games) or making the slightly sub-par sculpts stellar (which my personal ones are identified above).   

Shipping has started for those interested, I got a notification and tracking details in the last 24 hours.

Pleased, really prompt the Wyrdo's must have started packing as soon as GenCon ended.

Really looking forward to seeing this article revised in the next 6 months.  More than any other book I think this release will see the entire meta change in play style and approach.  At least for us Unionists the master upgrades look both highly promising and challenging with real scope for changed play styles and Colette is certainly not left out.

Ohhh my god I want my Book 5 and upgrade deck.

These really add amazing variety, it will make the meta do flip-flops and the angles I see means (as others have noted) it will be really interesting what match ups and strat/scheme pools are taken to what masters.

Notables for me...

Ramos gets something outside of pure summoner.

Marcus can potentially build a really nasty beast poison list.

Mei can work with her crew.

Aggressive in your face Colette option.

Ironsides actually may have to be attacked.

But the biggest one for me, the mega shot is Rasputina.  Both the upgrades really mix her up, add to an already heavily thematic master and I love them;

• Enveloped in Ice literally takes her classic weaknesses and twists them, she is slow and vulnerable especially to melee, well no more now Raspy is faster, has armor and can lay down some melee pain.  Matched with the various debuffs her crew can provide and healing potential this could make the Ice Princess a truly formidable brawler.
• Frozen Servants is amazing, summoner Raspy 10/10 cool, it feeds off itself as the summoned Gamin die and drop scrap to resummon, and it gives the Golem value (finally) which is doubled because he can throw summoned Gamin as well.  The eating of corpse markers is icing on the cake, its a little of the man-eater theme which Raspy's story had but the crew (except Wendigo) did not, well now they do and this provides the healing to balance the summons, but corpse markers may be trickier to get then scrap so interesting options and tactics may abound.

Colette was always my first master and I had a special place for Raspy, who I've probably played the most honestly.  By the looks of things this plays to both masters crew themes (I love thematic crew selection) and really provides varied options to them, in particular feel now that I can take Colette or Raspy and cover at least reasonably any opponent and scheme/strat pool competitively. 

If this is the general flow of the Malifaux book 5 then got to say it looks like Wyrd hit it out of the park home run for my gaming experience.  I'll reserve judgement till I've seen the full product but this is ratcheting up my excitement. 

Not sure if I love this topic or consider it torture as I wait for GenCon to end and Wyrd to start packing my, and everyone else's, online order.

Either way really interested in the Ramos buffs and dying to hear what happens for Rasputina (wow summons....?) and Marcus.  These three are the old originals and really hoping for a breath of freshness and am curious to see what direction it was felt the masters should move.

One thing I seem to notice, and I may be wrong, but it looks as though there is a trend in the upgrades to further support or add to the "theme" of the master and crew selection, maybe a little trying to get more of the character of individual masters and their crew's out.  Certainly seems the case with Colette and her Showgirls buff, does remain to be seen if this is a real trend across our, and other, factions or just an outlier I've noticed.

Likewise, punishing shipping to Australia, but what can you do and at least Wyrd offer up a bunch of options.

Now pleaseeeeeee send me my shinies.  Hope GenCon is awesome for Wyrd and all the folks that can actually attend as well, 

11 hours ago, Kimberly said:

Your assumption is correct, but remember, only LGS purchases count!

Yeah, ordered through a store in Sydney city thus worried about how long it will take to arrive, if I'd simply ordered online or through Wyrd store I'd be confident about having my book in around 2 weeks but through a LGS which rarely stocks Malifaux.... well hopefully I'll get it soon and be able to plan a game or three.

Made an order for the TTB 2E, hoping it arrives in Australia before the end of August.  Am I right in assuming the promo is based on date of purchase?

I'll be honest, not a huge NB player but thought I'd add some views anyway.

Now this is totally left field but have you considered Lucius box since his cuddle he has become very interesting and you already have some models he likes in NB and are thinking of others he works well with.  Lucius loves the Illuminated which are in Dark Debts, he likes the Tots and also Mr Graves as well.  

Now I'd add (regardless of Lucius)

• Doppleganger because its just that good.
• Primordial Magic also superb model

Also like 

• Changelings (especially for Lucius)
• Widow Weaver because she is immensely aggravating
• Johan is a very useful model
• Depleted are first class sticky models and synergize with Jacob (and Lucius)
• Mr Tannen is a good model for Jacob (excellent for Lucius)
• Mysterious Effigy is a solid little fellow
• Seriously consider Young Nephlim, Mature Nephlim and Black Blood Shaman to run Lillith spawn lists

Any of the upgrade decks are useful if you don't have them, but not essential as you can print on demand the cards.

My understanding of the Rougarou is it is good but not amazing.