snord

The RM is very clear when it says the Red Joker damage + the extra card flip are added together making it one grand total that is considered a single damage source, so the total would be doubled to 14 dmg.

@snord

I rly dont see why u dont like to play a canine remains. It costs the same like a seishin. It becomes a seishin when it gets killed and in addition u get at least a corpse counter for a gaki, or u get an additional gaki/onryo when killed with Weigh Sins.

Its also a bonus activation or two, to out-activate ur opponent.

The only downside i cn see is, that u ave to burn 1-2AP to kill it. But with the movement shenanigans Kirai has it shouldnt be a big problem.

I guess it is play style. On paper you are right, you get nice bonus with it, but on the table, turn one, I like to spread my seishin to 2-3 different places on the table so that my opponent does not know where I am going. After he commits his troops one direction or spreads thin (because I out-activate him), I can activate Kirai, "In to the spirit world" into the Seishin that I want, use them for summoning Shikomes/Ikyrio in my opponent's face and then at the end of the activation, pull back one or more Seishin for Kirai's protection during next turn.

In other words, because I play Kirai very aggressively, I like the tactical advantage that the Seishin gives me, compared to the bonus model/corpse counter that the Canine Remains would give me. Not saying CR is bad, just requires adjustments in play style.

The only faction that gives me some shortage of models by turn 5/6 is when I am playing against Neverborn, and that is what Avatar Kirai is for.

BTW, about will power debuff, Insidious Madness is much better than Night Terrors as they do not depend on cards, give a instead of -2WP, and their walk 8" is awesome. They do cost 4 though.

In any case, Kirai is really fun to play because she is so flexible you can play her in so many ways and even shift gears multiple times during a single game depending on the situation.

Have fun!

I think it is a good list, except that I would not play with Canine Remains.

I like to play Kirai on a very aggressive mode, summoning either Ikirio+Shikome first turn or 2 Shikomes. I play with the Desperate Merc because it gives Kirai not only the seishin+gaki/onryo, but more importantly the healing flip that sets her up for more summoning turn 2 if necessary. I would simply use another seishin instead of the canine remains.

Jack Daw+Kirai is absolutely awesome, except against Levi and Colette as these masters can one shot sac Jack Daw, earning them a VP and a model (Steam Punk Abomination for Levi, Manequim for Colette). With all the movement tricks that Kirai has for spirits, +guide spirits from Datsue-Ba if necessary, you can always have Jack exactly where you need it. And since Kirai is quite dependent on cards, the extra card in hand is really useful.

I haven't played that much with the Night Terrors, but they are good models, and can always serve as food for Kirai spells/actions if it comes to that.

Have fun!

I've been trying lots of different builds with Sonnia lately. I few findings:

* You are right, she really needs 7-8ss in her starting pool.

* Unless you are going to "keep her out of harms way" first 2 turns and manifest the avatar turn 3, she REALLY benefits from a guardian protecting her.

* You want 2 Withing Stalkers in there as you can use them as targets for the flame burst dealing out tons of damage with blasts. Their Magic Resistance 2 reduces the damage they take, their melee is pretty decent at 6:ram:, their aura is awesome and I've been using Dispel Magic on Paralyzes and poison a lot lately.

* I find her crew (as most of Guilds crews) severely lacks speed. So I've been using the watcher quite a lot for objective grabbing or to achieve schemes like Breakthrough.

* Finally, I tested the Governor's Proxy last game I played (was playing against McMorning) and he was awesome. The WP bonus is nice, but the spell that removes suites from model Cb and Ca attributes is top notch. In my game I targeted my own executioner and chose McMorning as the additional target effectively stopping the nasty stuff McMorning has for the turn. And if you have a nice book in your hand, you can even get an additional Flame Burst or Flame Wall in.

My 35ss list suggestion for you, if you are not using the avatar:

Sonnia (8ss pool)

Governor's Proxy - 2

Watcher - 3

Guardian - 7

Witching Stalker x2 - 8

Convict Gunslinger - 6

Guild Austringer - 5

I can see the confusion and I can read Organ Donor both ways. As Gnam said, because 2 interpretations are plausible in this case, it would be great if we can get an official ruling.

I am fine with either, as long as it is clarified, but IMHO the interpretation Gnam is advocating will complicate things a lot more, since the interactions with existing damage reduction/wd prevention abilities will have to be clearly stated, as well as with any other eventual ability created in the future that reduces Dg/Wd.

OTOH, it seems to me that healing the same number of wounds it caused is simpler, more streamlined and still complies with both RAW and RAI.

My .02c.

Did anyone tried crooligans as a defensive model yet?

I was looking for models that could create things to obstruct LOS and it seems on a quick search that crooligans are the only ones that Levi could hire.

On the plus side, their mist can help hide the waifs and they are good objective grabbers.

On the cons side, since they are special forces, they would prevent Levi from using Collodi or the Soulstone Miner.

Thoughts?

MagicPockets, I am feeling your pain...

Had my first 2 games with Levi yesterday. First game, against Colette, 35SS. Strategy was shared slaughter.

I positioned my crew defensively, behind some buildings. First turn we proceed alternating activations, but basically:

* Cassandra starts 6" ahead of deployment zone, moves 12" up on her activation,

* Colette uses (0) to reactivate, switches with Cassandra, disappearing act on Jack Daw with tripple :books . Jack Daw is now a manequim and I am out activated.

* Colette reactivates, (0) to summon a bird behind a building where my waif was hiding, (1) to walk and get line of sight to the other waif, (1) to kill the other waif with something (I think it was tripple book disappearing act again).

* Bird magician duel/soulstone to kill the second waif.

I am done.

Second game was against Zoraida (50SS).... I did much better and won 7-4.

It was fun but clearly showed how hard it is for Levi to fight the fast book 2 masters (Colette, LCB and Kirai).

The " place this model within 6 inches" falls under the "unless otherwise stated." This has been talked about before. I can't remember where and my search abilities seem to be elusive today.

Wording on the Dreamer:

(1) Frightening Dream (...): Place one friendly buried Nightmare within 6" of this model.

Wording on Kirai:

Ca(:crows:crows) Don't Blink: this model suffers 1 Wd. Place summoned model within 12".

So what you are saying is that neither of the above cases has to be *completely* within?

... esp as waifs have to be "completely within" 6 inches and nightmares are only "within" 6 inches)...

Slight side comment here, but AFAIK, all placement effects, unless noted otherwise, must be completely within. So, when the Dreamer unburies stuff, they have to be placed completely within 6".

From the rules manual:

PLACEMENT EFFECTS

A placement effect changes an in-play model's location on the table without using a movement effect to travel through terrain or other models, or brings a model that is not currently in play onto the table. A model's base must be placed where it can fit, and may not be placed so that any portion of it is further than the placement effect permits.

...

PLACE

...

Unless stated otherwise, a model's base must be placed completely within any stated range.

Another example of the application of the same rule is Kirai's trigger on evolve spirit. On a double crow, she can take an extra wound "to summon the model within 12"". It also means completely within 12".

Correct me if I am wrong, please, but that is how we play at our LGS.

Don't shoot the messenger! :peep:

To be honest, I have mixed feelings about models retaining effects while buried, but this is how the current rules are defined.

So, under current rules, how the miner is supposed to work?

Bringing this up again, as it is being discussed in other threads as well. Can we get a ruling, plz?

* Soulstone Miner uses overdrive, and then buries itself. Will it take the 2 wds immediately even if it is buried? Or will it retain the effect and take 2 wds at the end of the first activation in which it is not buried?

In my mind, it would retain the effect and would not take the 2 wds until it ends an activation in play (i.e., not buried), but we can see by previous messages in this thread that there are several people that think different.

Thanks

2 side comments here:

* If the opponent has a watcher in his crew, the effectiveness of a trappers list go down the hole as watchers prevent deployment outside a player's DZ.

* Regarding SS pool size, I see it can be interpreted both ways, but following the encounter steps on the RM, step 6 page 72 you determine the starting SS pool size and discard any SS over your maximum. Step 7, page 73, add 2 SS for each scheme you don't take. We always played that this can take you over your maximum starting SS pool as it happens after you hired your crew and discarded any SS over your maximum. Not saying it is a good/bad thing to exchange schemes for SS, just looking for clarification on the rules.

I know they are nightmare, but they are everything else as well (nephilim, woe, etc). So do they count as living like other nephilim or are they non-living nightmares?

... including if you commit suicide for extra cards and summoning power.

Not sure if you are referring here to absorb spirit targeting herself, but it seems it is not legal to do that. I used this tactic before, but Sketch posted the other day that you can't do that:

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showpost.php?p=336792&postcount=11

Sketch, thanks a lot for this ruling (I missed the "ages ago discussion"). It is a surprise to me, but I think makes total sense and prevents abuse on strategies/schemes like Deliver a Message.

But now I have to ask, what about Kirai's absorb spirit? I learned from Ratty himself the trick about becoming a spirit and sacrificing himself, to instead sacrifice Lost Love, effectively healing back to 6 wounds, getting 2 extra cards and becoming a spirit for the rest of the game. Is this allowed because it specifies a "friendly spirit"?

Thanks a lot

My understanding is the same as Adran.

@CunningStunt, I think the problem in your reasoning:

So it would go: Attempt to Target, Take pitful test, Push on success, now target.

is that if the Pitiful check fails, it ends the originating action as a failure, what implies the target was chosen before the check. Pitiful (and Harmless and similar abilities) says "when targeting the model".

But again, I can see multiple interpretations and that is the reason for my questions.

Hi, again couldn't find an answer, so here we go:

Pandora is within range and line of sight of a pitiful Kirai:

Question 1: Pandora declares she will cast pacify on Kirai, but because Kirai is pitiful, she has to make a WP check. Pandora succeeds on the WP check and because of Fading Memory, she pushes 4" to behind a building, losing the Line of Sight to Kirai. Does Pacify still happen, since it was already declared against a valid target, of fails because the target is no longer in line of sight?

Question 2: Pandora declares she will cast pacify on Kirai that has already taken 7 wounds. Because Kirai is pitiful, she has to make a WP check. Pandora succeeds on the WP check and because of that, Kirai takes a wound and dies. Can Pandora still cast another Pacify at another target in the same turn, or she can't because the Pacify WP duel did not happened?

Pacify reads:

(0) Pacify: Target enemy model unaffected by Incite or Pacify

within 12” performs a Wp Wp Duel with this model. If

the target model loses, it must activate after any other

model in its Crew which as not been affected by Pacify. If

this model wins the WpDuel, it may choose to take the

Pacify Action again this activation.

Thanks.

Tried searching but could not find an answer.

Perdita's quick draw says:

(0) Quick Draw [Peacebringer]: This model may make a

Peacebringer Strike against a model within this weapon’s

Rg and LoS that has declared a ranged attack, Cast/Channel,

or Charge Action before that model flips a Fate Card or

moves. Quick Draw ends when this model makes the Strike,

or the End Closing Phase, whichever comes first.”

Question is: a model that may or may not be within range of the weapon declares a cast. Perdita's player "try to use quick draw" and finds that the model is outside the range. What happens?

a. Quick Draw does end because the prerequisite of the ability is that the target model must be within range.

b. Quick Draw ends and the strike is canceled because it was not in range.

Thanks

Not sure if I am reading it right.

But since von Schill survived I am not sure you played McM`s sheme right...

"That one is a keeper" says those 5 body parts has to come from enemy master/henchman/totem... So basicly, you would have to hit von Schill actually five times if you haven't killed him...

Ahhhhh, that makes McM scheme a lot harder to achieve! He never hit Von Schill... He got the body parts from the librarian, talor and jack daw. In any case, since it was the first game he played with McM, and the first time I played against that scheme, it is an acceptable mistake.

The crews were (if I remember correctly):

Von schill, Librarian, Jack Daw, Convict Gunslinger, Trapper and Talor

McMorning, Bete Noir, Chiuaua, 2 crooked man, Mortimer, 3 canine remains

I might be wrong, but my understanding is that the moment you activate the swarm, the "Fast" effect is applied/converted into +1 AP. So, by the time you scatter, you no longer have Fast...

I am a Kirai player and unfortunately never played against another Kirai player before, but my suggestion for you is go after the seishin and any other cheap spirits. This will seriously hinder Kirai's ability to bring more spirits into play. Blasts on Seishin are Kirai's demise.

If you have a chance of killing Lost Love, go for it, but a smart Kirai player will keep him well hidden as his sacrifice has no range (he can be anywhere on the board).

Regarding Shikomes, there is not much you can do other than accept you will lose a model on the turn she comes into play (assuming you are playing a strong Kirai player). You have to be ready for the counter attack though, and if there are no cheap spirits left (because you've been killing them, specially seishin), then it is unlikely the Shikome will come back after you deal with her the first time.

Finally, the major and best advice that is valid for every single master in Malifaux: ****focus on your strategy and schemes*****. The other day I saw the Dreamer/LCB destroy Perdita's crew in the first turn, but because the Guild player focused on his schemes and strategies, he would have won the game had he not flipped the black joker defending from an attack on the last turn of the game.

Good luck!

I was playing Von Schill on this game, and have to say as most games against CannonFolder, it was a blast.

Admittedly, I made quite a few mistakes in the game, while he played a solid strategy, so his victory was well deserved, but having those shafted markers showing up on the last turn (first time I played against crooked man) was a really (bad) surprise...

All in all, great fun! Congratz again to CannonFolder.

I thought the same thing when GW released it... I've been playing a bit with it, and the final veredict is still open, but so far it is looking good. My main problem is that I haven't found the right tool/brush to apply it, but it does help covering those small lines that remain on contact points.

Just a reminder, the league starts next Wednesday, October 19th.

Subscriptions open until October 18th.

Cheers

Hi all,

We had a game today and the strategy was Shared Supply wagon. One of the players was playing Rasputina, and she did an attack against another model generating 4-damage blasts that extended to the supply wagon (hardness 3).

Question is: can the wagon be damaged by blasts?

Rules manual, page 98 says:

Models may attack the wagon markers with melee attacks only.

Player's argument was that he did not attack the wagon, he attacked another model and that RAW does not prevent blasts from damaging the wagon. Judge ruled that by RAW, the blasts would indeed damage the wagon.

Thanks