Necromorph

Aside from the fact that there are 2 almost identical posts to this on the first page....

I would say at least 12 if you play 35ss a lot...you can end up with 15+ though if you're really on a roll.

So I've recently picked up McM's box, and I have a Miss Pack, but after sitting down and thoroughly researching Nurses, I find myself disappointed. I'll do a positive/negative.

Pro's

-Nice fluff and background, staple unit for Mcm.

-Massive Dose has it's uses...sometimes.

-Furious Casting.

-Some nice triggers.

-Despite it's cc, Life Support is pretty sweet.

Con's

-Melee support unit with relatively low defensive stats / 6 wounds.

-Lack of defensive abilities given their low stats (the Harmless cuddle hurt them a lot).

-High cc on many spells, and no built in stats on ca/cb

-Most spells comes with a "downside."

---Surgery makes both models slow, (not huge but for a high cc All action it's iffy).

---Massive dose sacrifices the unit affected, denying you corpse counters.

---(0) Actions must have b2b.

-Their lack of Companion or any kind of "linking" ability makes their (0) actions awkward to utilize.

-Considering the above, the 5ss price tag puts them far below other 5ss models in terms of overall usefulness (Ronin, Austringers, Convict, Stitched, Punk's, Belles for -1ss, blah blah blah).

-It's only really practical to ever use 1, denying the possibility for workable "themed" lists (aka Seamus/Belles, Nico/Punks).

That having been said, there seems to be only 1 main strategy that I can find for using them, and that is keeping them near Sebastian to turn Canines into cruise missiles and send them at the enemy. Granted, this is a good way to use them, but requires a somewhat dedicated list. We (at the LGC) also talked about using them with Desperate Mercs, which brings some evil plans to mind, but that's about it. They are basically pigeonholed into being "a 5ss unit that is only useful for buffing 2ss units." Sure they can have a use supporting larger models, but only in very specific situations, and assuming they survive being that close to the enemy for that long.

They are rarely going to be useful in Melee (where most of their support spells, abilities, and triggers can really shine) thanks to their poor survivability and a cb of 4 with nothing built in. It is a little frustrating. I love the models, love the fluff, but feel that they are just too subpar to be practical in most situations. Sure you CAN you them, but it almost always seems like you'd be better off taking something else unless you play a strict "dog spam" list.

Anyone have any idea's as to how they can be more effectively and consistantly utilized? Also Idea's as to how they could be changed for the better to make them more appealing? (Not that they're likely to change now, but hey, they are probably the least used "staple units" I can think of).

Well yeah, not so fun for everyone else....but then again, that's how I feel about Guild in general, so they can deal with it, lol.

Whenever I hear...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-58-36lSqG4[/ame]

...I think of Von Schill.

I would say (without getting into any of the scary Industrial music I listen to on occastion) that this song fits Levi for me.

[ame]

Bah, you just reminded me how many Infinity models I still have to paint, lol. It feels like a chore, my painting has come a long long way in the past year, but I feel like Infinity models are SO detailed that painting them becomes tedious at times.

Even though Malifaux is more detailed than say...many 40k models, I just feel some wierd compulsive urge to paint them...don't get that way with my Infinity figs, don't know why.

Awesome...you and your suspenseful book endings!

Haha...totally forgot about Rabies on the Cr's. I usually blow them up turn 1 for either an extra Waif (Levi) or Body Part Counters (Mcm) and I rarely use them for combat (not really into the whole dog swarm thing with him though I know it's very good).

Yeah I guess it depends on how you're running your Rats/Catcher. Most opponents put the Catcher and Nix as target priority #1 and leaving them on their own is just asking for trouble (especially against ranged crews).

Although in general with Hamelin my strategy with him is "I don't Care." Oh, you killed my Catcher, I don't care, I made another. On Nix died, congrats, you can get straight flips to hit me again, I don't care. Oh you cheated a 13 for your resist, I'll draw a card, cheat high and burn stones, I don't care because you're insignificant. Hahaha...it's all so much fun.

Very interesting Magic. Many good points about the Canine Remains, the only concern I have is that if you let Hamelin go off with the CR's and let the Rat swarm do it's thing, then the Catcher will get focused, and the swarm will die. Granted your canines will replace them, but it slows you down. The only other issue is that while CR lower df, Rats lower wp, which, unless you plan on using Pipes all day, is more useful. I will however, try using CR's and see how they do (seeing as I have McM now and will need more dogs anyways lol).

I was hoping you'd say that about the Tots. They are much better bang for the buck as Young (not to mention they don't slow your whole crew down waiting for them to Mature). Flay is an insane trigger for them, and they are easy to make with the rats. If so many people didn't start Lilith in the past couple weeks (GOD WHY?!?!!! /cryinthecorner) then I would probably have some as well, haha. I would probably only take them as far as Young, but Matures are nasty. Keeping them as Young gives you a quick and effective way to get incredibly hard hitting models, in a generally boulder-rolling-down-hill type of damage crew, on the first turn.

Hamelin the Plauged

Nix (7)

Obedient Wretch (2)

Malifaux Rat (2)

Mailfaux Rat (2)

Rat Catcher (5)

Canine Remains (2)

Canine Remains (2)

Canine Remains (2)

Terror Tot (3)

> Cache of 8ss

@ Magic. Yes Canine Remains are better in combat that rats (and a bit quicker for objective capping which is the only reason I would probably take them) but they lack the ability to give blight counters, and they might outpace the rats and the catcher if you get all charge crazy. I guess if it works it works, but I don't understand the synergy.

As for the Terror Tot...please please please please tell me that you're not using him to grow into a Mature turn 1...because you can't.

Hmm...had an idea...and I know people have probably tried it. It won't work all the time (low ss games like 25ss would be best) and won't work against some crews, but it could totally throw someone off.

List:

Mcm - 6ss Cache

Seb- 7ss

Remains x9 - 18ss

total-25ss (6ss cache).

So, Turn 1 activate Mcm, Wracked with Pain + Scalpel Magic 2 dogs (8 bpc's), summon a Construct, burn 1 bp to move up. Move dogs up around Mcm (b2b or close) move sebastian up near Mcm and dogs but not too close to Construct.

Turn 2 - Activate Seb and do his Pulse, cheat with Mcm to avoid dmg, let all 7 dogs die (I'm hoping that his pulse hits friendlies, doesn't say otherwise but haven't checked the manual...unfortunately this is the part that the whole plan hinges on). Mcm activates, picks up 14pbc for a total of 16(with the 2 you had left from turn 1). Activate Mcm, summon a Construct, use full activation to set up, move Constructs accordingly.

Turn 3 - Activate Seb and Construcs first, use them to attempt to lure enemy into combat. Activate Mcm last, use 1 pbc (10 left) for (+1) Fast and get him into combat any way possible but DON'T use Scalpel Slingin, you'll need the (0). Once he's in combat and hopefully generated a couple extra bpc's, summon a Rogue Necro (which will leave you with between 2 and 8'ish bpc's left depending on what Mcm did before he summoned the Necro).

Turn 4-6 - Continue with what you have, summon more Constructs as the situation permits (or as they die), or simply go for the throat with what you have.

At 25ss, some crews probably won't bring enough stopping power to take down all those big nasties + Mcm + Seb. If you manage to generate enough bpc's and get all summon happy (which I know isn't his thing but depending on how the game is going...meh) you could have 6 big constructs (roughly 52ss worth of stuff including seb) walking the table at the end of the game. It's a bit slow to set up, and very manipulative crews may be able to control your relatively small (first couple turns) crew out of position...but hey, it's a total shock value tactic that might throw someone off if they're not expecting it.

Also agree with the Ronins...you'll need those activations, especially if you don't have any 'Korps yet.

Has your opponent managed to master the movement options with Sisters in Spirit ? This is key to delivering one of the Viks into combat, and gives you a large threat range that should be able to catch out even highly mobile crews.

The Dreamer, if played well can be tough to beat, but the Viks certainly have the potential to do so.

Tho, as I mentioned, the Dreamer is very hard to predict and counter/alpha strike. He can keep his whole crew buried until HE is ready to pop them out. Unless you can manage to kill the Dreamer and force his nightmares to pop. Unfortunately this requires a very stupid Dreamer player or an insanely fast crew (I've pulled it off with Collodi but that's about it).

Sisters in Spirit will work best if you keep one Vik generally away from the other. If one gets jumped on, the other Vik can pull her to safety (I would also STRONGLY suggest at least getting a 'Korps Librarian to heal said wounded Vik).

I also agree that the Viks have a good chance to beat the Dreamer, but it's going to be an uphill battle. Von Schill and his 'Korps are going to be big additions to the Viks.

Arachnid, Slow to Die, Hard to Kill, Overpower, Flurry, Rot....I think they're one of the best 3ss models in the game.

Splitting forces isn't always bad against the Dreamer, but it depends on the Dreamer list. If he's running a lot of big, nasty, Terrifying models, then you won't want to clump up, and splitting can actually help you pick your battles. It's all really situational though. I actually wouldn't clump every to be honest. Even if you split your forces, and keep half 6" (+/- depending on circumstance) in front of the other, one half will be able to react to the other getting bombed, and he probably wont be able to bomb all of your models at once. If you clump up, then he gets to force all of your models into melee at once.

Honestly, VonSchill and the 'Korps are a huge help to Mercs. They get +WP in duels and Schill's (0)Hard Ass ability gives you +4WP in Morale Duels (i.e. Terrifying). Not to mention he can tie something up in Melee as long as you need to, and then (0) Augmetic Jump out of combat when you're ready to deal with it. Also, all 'Korps models are pretty good in Melee and Ranged, plus thier armor, so they are very versatile in and of themselves.

Chompy bits and Teddy do some nasty things to most Mercs (given thier low-average Df), so you'll want to make sure you bait Chompy into combat with something less valuable so that you get to activate on him with a Vik or Taelor and crush his face (his Df and wounds are very manageable for any hard hitting melee...Vik+Sisters in Battle: Fury can 2 shot him with weak dmg 5 haha). Hell, if you're bringing Ronin, you could have 1 Vik die for the cause of wasting Chompy's activations, charge him with the other Vik, and then bring the other one back.

The big problem Mercs run into is their straightforwardness. The Dreamer is very good at making other crews play on His terms (to reference a post by Lalo) and there isn't a whole lot of trickery that Mercs can pull to counter that. Regardless what you do, you're going to get hit hard by a Dreamer crew. I feel like the name of the game is resource management. Not just stones, but models themselves. Some of your models ARE GOING TO DIE, you just have to accept that, set your models up in preparation for the nightmare bomb, and plan from a "counter-attack" perspective.

I'm rambling, but the fact of the matter is, it's a tough matchup, and every battle is going to be very dependant on circumstances. Also, he should be playing for schemes/strategies, not just to kill you, and he really should be running 2 schemes to maximize how many VP's he can get, if he needs more stones, then the 'Korps models will give him some more flexible point options.

Oh my god. That is an amazing idea. I never though to cheat that trigger to get that free strike. Absolutely wonderful. And if I apply that same to tactic to get a Flesh Construct, I can continue with my activation rather than ending it by casting Dissection.

Rofl, I know! Lucky I found this post, I never thought of the trigger and I've been thinking of ways to do it without...which is possible, but very very card/resource intensive.

Meh, not much time and I'm feeling lazy, so I'll link what I posted in the other thread as it basically applies the same.

Each Master has their own benefits.

Hamelin - He's not going to be cheap to buy models for, but he is incredibly powerful, and lets face it, there are some crews out there that are going to find it damn near impossible to beat him unless they have lots of experience playing against him (and sometimes, in the case of crews like Ophelia, they simply can't beat him at all). As I said though, if cost is a factor, you'll need at least 2 more packs of rats, a pack of catchers, and a pack of stolen to make him work, not exactly easy on the walet.

Levi - One of (if not THE) most powerful ranged casters in the game. His ability to kill just about anything in 2-3 spells, and his crews immense versatility make him a strong choice. However, unless you know exactly what you want to run with him, trying out different options can get expensive. Additionally, he is a tough master to learn and has a lot of abilities and traits that you need to stay on top of to make him run efficiently.

Mercs - I lump VonSchill and the Viks into the Mercs category because, really, you'll want both (not necessarily both full boxes, but definitely Von Shill himself and the 2 Viks +/- some Freikorps/traditional Mercs). Though they don't have as wide a range of options as Leveticus, the Mercs are designed for versatility and they can field units to suit any situation. They are fairly straightforward and tend to rely less on trickery and subterfuge than some crews.

If you don't want to spend a ton of cash, and want a crew that's easy to jump into go Mercs. If you have time to learn Levi to his fullest potential and understand what works best with him, go Levi. If you want to be a total douche-nozzle in tournaments go Hamelin, but beware the potential price tags on Levi and Hamelin.

Each Master has their own benefits.

Hamelin - He's not going to be cheap to buy models for, but he is incredibly powerful, and lets face it, there are some crews out there that are going to find it damn near impossible to beat him unless they have lots of experience playing against him (and sometimes, in the case of crews like Ophelia, they simply can't beat him at all). As I said though, if cost is a factor, you'll need at least 2 more packs of rats, a pack of catchers, and a pack of stolen to make him work, not exactly easy on the walet.

Levi - One of (if not THE) most powerful ranged casters in the game. His ability to kill just about anything in 2-3 spells, and his crews immense versatility make him a strong choice. However, unless you know exactly what you want to run with him, trying out different options can get expensive. Additionally, he is a tough master to learn and has a lot of abilities and traits that you need to stay on top of to make him run efficiently.

Mercs - I lump VonSchill and the Viks into the Mercs category because, really, you'll want both (not necessarily both full boxes, but definitely Von Shill himself and the 2 Viks +/- some Freikorps/traditional Mercs). Though they don't have as wide a range of options as Leveticus, the Mercs are designed for versatility and they can field units to suit any situation. They are fairly straightforward and tend to rely less on trickery and subterfuge than some crews.

If you don't want to spend a ton of cash, and want a crew that's easy to jump into go Mercs. If you have time to learn Levi to his fullest potential and understand what works best with him, go Levi. If you want to be a total douche-nozzle in tournaments go Hamelin, but beware the potential price tags on Levi and Hamelin.

If you're gonna try to get a Melee merc in there you would want to KEEP the librarian and drop the basic 'korpsmen. The librarian has proven time and time again to be the biggest thorn in my opponents side. The only way you can get rid or her is to knock either her or Schill outside of his slow to die aura, which only a select few models can do and the Schill player will likely target them first (or ofc you could draw a hand with no rams when you really need it, but that's just bad luck). That pair has been the single longest lasting thing in my crews, and even games where I'm getting stomped they are ALWAYS the last 2 models on the table.

As for Hamelin, I haven't tried him with my 'Korps yet, but I've been considering it. He gives them some much needed "tricks"/support to a crew that relies primarily on defensively-offensive straightforwardness.

Yeah, overwhelming with attacks is all you can do if you can't ignore armor. Oh score, didn't realize Self Mutilate did straight Wd, that makes them pretty awesome then.

If you get Slaughter or Contain Power, and need to engage the Construct Wall directly, then flurry is probably your best friend. Onryo's might not be bad in that case I guess. Generally though it's all about doing 1dg 7-10 times through armor +4 or more.

Resers are gonna have a tough time against Hoff. Make sure you know what constructs he has. Not all constructs are Immune to Influence, though if he knows your list he CAN build a list that IS. I would suggest Bete, Jack Daw is almost a must if you have him.

He is also not a very fast crew, so if you have an objective based Strategy, go for those and try to avoid him. Maybe throw Jack into his group of constructs, because you're going to want to tie up Ryle, and go for Strat/Schemes.

Hmmm...has anyone tried using Onryo in a non Kirai list? They are one of the Resers few armor ignoring minions and they're not too expensive (and might be better for the extra point than belles if he's running an I2I list). Being spirits they might also stick around a bit longer.

Love his model....about that cost though. Yeah he seems useful and then you see that double digit price tag and go "Ooooh, I'll stick with Taelor and Schill...kkthnxbye."

Hmm, so I'm thinking of getting into Resers, and was considering McM. I love Kirai, but I don't want to fork out the cash for her crew atm. Currently I own Bete, 2 Hanged, 2 Extra Hollow Waifs to proxy as Belles, and 2 Canine Remains (All courtesy of Levi, and I don't like the dogs that much either, thus posting this here and not in the Tactica, haha). I also have a Convict for some extra ranged support...oh and a Miss Pack if I needed a Nurse.

Therefore, I don't want to waste money on the starter and was just going to get McM, Sebastian (don't really like him, but why the hell not, lol), and a Flesh Construct (if I really need 2 I'll print out a card and proxy my Desi).

Is there anything you guys would consider getting in addition to those 3? I've been Hemorrhaging money like crazy so I don't want to drop a lot. I figure the Convict would be fine for ranged and the belles/bete/sebastian/hanged would be enough for support. What do you guys think?

You should be able to due to Han's Sniper ability.

Not unless there was some sneaky errata that we didn't see. The cards list them as simply Insignificant and Soulless.

Yeah I proxied him against a dreamer crew and wrecked some face with him at 35ss. The list was pretty limited, lots of wicked dolls, but it was fun.

Hell I play him and I don't think it's fun anymore now that I've learned him.

The only people I play him against are our Guild Players. I have no fun playing against Guild (our Guild players like to go for maximum cheese-factor in their lists, which isn't hard, and I just find myself not having fun). So, simple fix, make the whole game not fun by playing Hamelin and making them cry...pretty balanced IMO, hahaha.