Oshova

Actually, with the way ELO works, you would get a spread within each microsystem of rankings. The North would end up with high and low rankings, and the South would end up with high an low rankings (using your example). This in itself can be a problem. However, every time that someone visits both microsystems it actually begins to equalise the 2 against each other. So to further your example. If The Squigs went to both sets of tournaments across the year, going back and forth, then the rankings system would essentially use The Squigs as a basis to rank the 2 systems against each other. Obviously, this requires people mixing between different systems to equalise it. But with the current system you end up with the same problem, but with no medium to equalise the two against each other.

Ok, I'm going to be honest here. I really dislike this form of rankings. It is a ranking system based off of quantity not quality.

If I go to larger events with low quality players, and do awesome. I would rank higher than someone doing equally well who has fought their way through the best of Britain. (in this case, as we are talking UK rankings)

To me, that doesn't seem right. A rankings system based off of quality would favour players who beat quality players. It doesn't matter at what tournament it is, or how big the tournament is. If a No0b comes in and stomps the number 1 with a 10-0, then that should be reflected on their ranking.

I would propose an ELO based system. (no not the band).

With an ELO system, your ranking score is compared to your opponents, and the winner and loser have a change of score based off of the difference in their rankings. So if the number 1 beats the number 100, then it will mean a small change for both players. But if it's vice versa, it's a big change for both.

Now, the common fear with ELO is that is generally linked to more competitive games (An example being chess). And Malifaux players generally try to steer clear of situations that may result in overly competitive play. But we have seen over the past years with rankings that isn't the case. We still have fun, and the rankings are an extension of that fun.

Another fear is over complication with statistics and obtaining data. But again, we already hand on the scores for the tournament to Mike for rankings. All that would be required would be a list of who played who each round. That is entered into a simple spreadsheet or database. Then the computer can do all the complicated stuff for you, and spit out the rankings at the end.

I honestly feel that this would create a more representative view of how players rank against each other than the current system.

Paid! Sign me up for evening fun... As a side note... 8th November is also my birthday... I will accept wins as gifts. =p

Sign me up for Sunday. =]

Oh, I would whole heartedly agree with you that I go into some games expecting a draw as the best thing. I actually feel sometimes this has helped because I've been a bit more cautious, and so have own by 1 or 2 VP. But I'm definitely prone to just making stupid decisions if I feel it is going badly.

On the other players, I would generally agree with you for those I have played against, or seen enough of. And I would definitely be one of the people shocked at you winning the Masters. As a pretty unseen player it was quite a surprise to me for you to beat the people that you did. Obviously you have kept the standard high since then, and shown that it wasn't just the unknown of a new player that got you wins. As you are a very well rounded player.

Also, how on Earth can you remember all those games so well!? You have a freakish memory! =p

There is a company that make long card sleeves though (not that I can remember the name...), that are the right length to have an unfolded 1.5 card in.

So they are out there if you want to continue playing 1.5 and keep your stat cards in good condition etc.

I've finally given in... email sent.

OOH! Put me down for Seamus!

Looking forward to trying out M2E, I've gone from not really sure about it, to mildly positive.

The only way is up, right? =]

He's got Mei Feng

Yeah, only played 3 games with her so far. Hoping that I can find something I like to use more at a higher SS game than at 25. Atm it's very much, I like using her and the crew is just an extra. But I think some of the extra models I'm chucking in to my pool will be good fun to play with. =]

Totally paid and stuff! ... Now to see if I can paint more than 1 model for my crew...

Oh, and it's Arcanists from me... Is it me or are they taking over? Lol

Ditto! Still trying to figure out a Som'er list to bring. I can't just play Ophelia ...

Just surprise everyone and bring 3 Hamlin lists! =p

Is the pool declared at the start of the day and stuck to. Or can you change the extra box/blister from round to round?

Later in the same game, Sonia tried it again when both the dreamer (and the daydream within 3" of him) were in plain sight of her.

Would this have changed what would have happened?

From where I was standing the Daydream was out of LoS hence why I ruled it that way. In a way I'm glad this happened to you, as you are quite new to the game, and these things happening lets you prepare for them in case you face a Sonnia player in the future who knows this trick.

Just one of those things that happens once, and you have to learn from it.

The other point I'd like to add is about 'power creep'. This is a necessary evil in my opinion when it comes to any form of tabletop / card game, especially for smaller companies like Wyrd. A new book comes out, the models are slightly better, everyone goes out and buys them, $$$.

Just because there is a new book, doesn't mean you have to put better models in it. You put models in that take a different approach, favour a different playstyle etc. They don't necessarily have to be better overall, just better when played a certain way etc.

A car company improves every year's new model so that people will want to upgrade, why should Nathan, Eric & co deny themselves income?

This is a strange argument to make. Comparing a new model of a car to a new model in a game is obscure at best. A car company brings out a new car with better technology, better design, and improvements in other similar areas. A gaming company brings out a new model with better design due to new modelling technologies, or they revise the rules as a whole to keep up with how the game is progressing. They are 2 very different ways of looking at business.

---------- Post added at 03:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:44 PM ----------

There is quite a bit of good constructive criticism within this thread.

~Calmdown: we appreciate it, and especially appreciate criticism not buried in sarcasm, ridicule, assumption, or other hostile tone that causes an immediate defensive wall. Good job.

Looking through the spreadsheet and this thread, I don't think it's crossing any lines to openly admit that the Dev team has identified many of those issues and have discussed a number of suggestions mentioned (sometimes well before this thread!). So we're more or less on the same page. Some, of course, we'll have to disagree on and you'll have to take it or leave it.

Who knows when or how any changes (if any) will get rolled out, but it's worth acknowledging that we're not only listening to suggestions such as these, but we talk about some similar points ourselves. Some [potential changes], even more aggressively than suggested here!

Nice to see you guys are being proactive as well as reactive. I think the community at large would like a lot of these problems sewn up (especially those of us who have been playing since book 1, and see that some of the same problems still remain).

Good luck sorting all this out. =p

The only thing I waver back and forth on is adding a Resist to A gremlins Luck. Because of the Low Ca's of the two models that can use it any resist would make the spell very difficult to actually get off. I think a better option is to just limit it to once per turn (coupled with the healing limitation recommended above it would really address the main issue the spaming of the ability).

Once per Crew per turn, might be alright. But when you have so many models that can cast it (and seeing as Skeeters can only cast it once a turn anyway), then Once per turn doesn't seem to be a big enough change. Or maybe, reword it so Skeeters can't cast it. You're going to be more sparing with Somer's wounds than you are with Skeeters' wounds.

I cannot fathom, in any way, a meta where Nicodem could be consistently competitive. It simply does not exist within this game, because he does not have the numbers nor the abilities nor the model selections to be constantly competitive. If he is constantly competitive, it means that his meta is at a low level - either people play lower level masters a lot, or Zephir outskills his opponents to make up for the lack of competitiveness of the model.

Like the point about you wanting to boost Nico and McM, and yet you have such good stats for win/loss . . . it's not our fault your better than us. =p

But seriously, there are some good changes in there on the models that I know more about. The ones I know less about I have less to say about (obviously).

Personally I think you are being a little harsh on the Gremlins. Yes they need a massive change, and the changes you've suggested individually are quite good. But together they add up to too much. We don't want another case of the Alps.

Also, I think some models you have suggested changes you haven't gone far enough. Bishop is still not worth his SS, Twins are still the best 7SS models in the game (or 21SS team).

I'm liking the Collodi/Marrionette changes though. It moves them over to more movement antics and taking out lesser models than what they currently do. However, this leaves a Collodi-led crew a bit sparse in certain situations. Such as those where you need to take out lots of big models (see Hoffman etc).

This is a very big step to be made to get this all to work properly. Hopefully Wyrd see the long term benefits of such changes, and make a massive revision next year instead of small changes and more new models. But we will have to see.

On a side, I did run Somer competitively over the weekend at the ETC and only lost shared slaughter against Dreamer/LCB by a card flip! And that was against Oshova who is one of the best LCB players in the country - so definitely starting to get it all working

Well, not many people playing LCB in UK tournies at the moment, so being in the top few isn't hard =p

But that was a hard fought game, and was pretty even despite it ending up 6-2 (or something).

I'm very much taking the foot off the gas with Malifaux now, but if I get chance to run them again at any point I'll be sure to post it up for you guys

This is a shame, but I hope you keep theorying, as it creates some interesting thoughts and ideas.

This seems like a nice fix. Along with the other proposed changes, I think this would help to bring Hamelin in line with the other masters. In comparison it isn't that different to the changes made to Dreamer/LCB. It gives your opponents some respite, and lets them feel as if they are succeeding in something when they kill the rats, instead of just helping the Hamelin player.

Well, what can I say? I'm amazed I won . . . just means I will do badly next weekend at the ETC instead. But I had 7 great games over the weekend, all of which were nice, closely fought games. It's no fun beating someone 8-0 on turn 1. I would much rather fight tooth and nail, and I had that for 7 games.

Also nice to play 6 different opponents over the games as well, and great to see so many new faces around.

Hopefully the Northampton campaign day ( http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?32396-Dead-Heat-Campaign-Day-in-Northampton ) will help bring some more players into the regular crew.

If there's one thing I love about this game, it's the community.

:facepalm:

+1

7 games sounds good to me. I don't mind losing 7 games . . . =p

You cant hold being uneducated against a person.

Well you can, but they won't like you for it.

Also, am I missing something with the pigapults, seeing as both Dumb Luck and Omenbringer find it interesting that there's 2 in there. Where you expecting more? less? none? . . . give me some hints, and stop being so cryptic. =p

If you take Lucius he can take a totem. ; ]

Personally, sticking the Student with an Austringer, is awesome. 2x Austringers with a Student is awesome.

As stated, moving and doing the (2) action is awesome. And then when they get close, 5 shots total from them is great.

Just watch out for blast weapons though, as the Student can fall down quite easily.

But Somer is the worst master in the game. Why would you want to take him?

In fairness though, good luck at the weekend. It will be interesting to see how many turns Levi can survive. And whether I will be able to do anything with Zoraida other than lose. =p