Oshova

The Levi avatar does have a spell to summon in a rider. But it's a one off. But it does mean you can put 3 riders in at 35ss, using the remainder of the ss to buy your other models (Canine Remains etc), and then just summon in the 4th (well 5th . . .) rider when Levi manifests.

Unless I want to get something done turn 1. (ie. killing something, getting objectives etc) I will usually start with all my models standing round Dreamer (except LCB of course). This means I can set up an lasting actions (such as Defensive Stance, Creepy Fog, Terrifying from Dreamer etc). Then you can bury all the models you want buried (usually everything but the Daydreams for me). Then move into position for next turn. Then Turn 2, fire the gun at your target(s), unburying whatever you need to get the job done, and then try and get out of there ASAP using Daydreams to manipulate your models if Dreamer is out of AP.

Also, the wording on All Done "Bury this model and replace it with a friendly The Dreamer" . . . It doesn't say "After successfully hitting defender . . . " This means you can cheat in a low Tome, replace LCB with Dreamer, then use the Daydream from LCB, or one you companioned before the whole move, and jump away from danger.

It's less picking apart the language, more seeing how people interpret things differently. And using the most literal reading of the rules makes for play with the least argument.

Of course, there is nothing stopping you from playing House Rules. But to play by the rules, you play literally. I agree that the sensible way to play would be to play it like an aura. But the rule as written says to play it like a pulse.

Or the SS Miner that's just buried itself with armour (+3) huh?

I think how we played it is right, all models in 2" at the point the Guardian does Stalwart gain armour(+2) until the end closing phase, irrespective of where they eventually move.

Yes, I would say we played the rule correctly as it's written. But I will just have to add it to my list of gripes about how things should work against how they work according to the rules. =p

Tim, Collodi and my first Guardian arrived today

Ah awesome, that means we have more combos to try out. And obviously I have ressers for trying out my random Lure plan. We will make Levi work! =p

Ok, so today's thoughts on keeping Levi alive long enough to complete objectives . . .

2 Guardians protecting a Waif, in a very literal way. Placing the models so that the Waif can't be attacked. If LCB and some Nightmares are taking out Levi and a Waif. That leaves the Marrionnettes attacks to try and take down 2 Guardians and a Waif. I can't see all 5 models dieing in a turn. That means that you've got next turn to get Levi out (now next to the remnants of the Guardians) and he can pop 3 Marrionnettes. Now you've got Levi and 3 SPAs. 1 more SPA and you have a Desolation Engine to strike fear into the heart of the enemy. Plus whatever models you have standing round elsewhere on the table.

This looks like the best option atm.

Another (flimsier) option was to use Belles to push the Waifs around to give them extra movement. (Being Wk 3 is pretty rubbish) But obviously to keep the distance you would need to keep Levi alive, and if you've got a rubbish hand turn 1, then things aren't looking good for you. But you would probably be able to keep a Waif alive long enough to bring Levi back turn 3, and then strike back while the Neverborn are stranded in your deployment zone.

Just another thought, no idea how effective that would be.

One thing to remember with the All Done trigger, is that you don't need to successfully hit the target. So even with a low Tome in your hand you can still do it. But yeah, if you have none then companioning with a Daydream before rushing forward, then doing a (0) to get a new Daydream, do Calm Nightmares. Then activate the Companioned Daydream and unbury LCB back in the deployment zone.

Or some other such strategy.

So you're saying it is effectively a pulse, and the affect ends at the end of the turn? That is definitely the way it is starting to look like the rule works as written. But I still think that makes no sense. How is the Guardian protecting the Peacekeeper that has now run from the deployment zone grabbed the treasure, and then reactivated to go into cover?

Levi was a top master in book 1, but the rise of super fast crews (dreamer, kirai, collodi, etc) sent him down into the middle ground. Hell, any guild.crew with 2 austringers will give him a lot of trouble. So barring those 6 crews, levi stacks up quite well against the other 60% or so of crews. Now, ill admit that I haven't used him with collodi yet to see how that works out, but I'm still a bit sceptical that it will make him THAT good.

Ok, so let's say you're correct in saying that Levi has good match-ups against 60% of masters. You then have to look at how much those masters are played. I don't know a Guild player who doesn't use at least 1 Austringer and some other ranged stuff. A large proportion of players play the fast masters (Dreamer, Kirai, Collodi etc). So this then lowers that 60% of crews to below 50% imho.

Now I like having close/tought matches, so having good match-ups 60+% of the time would be good. But when that % drops below 50% I would be struggling to enjoy the master. No, it's not all about winning. But it is about having fun, and if that high amount of your games are going to be losses from the start, then you're going to want to avoid them. It just makes for a negative playing experience.

From talking through what Levi can do, it seems that Collodi and Dreamer seperately cause problems for him, but aren't unbeatable. But when you put them together, it is definitely Rock - Paper.

Playing for simplicity is usually better, and as primarily a Dreamer player the pain of remembering what has what effects at what times, and kept them through burying, is a right pain. =p

Sounds interesting with respect to trying to make things a bit more balanced or story based. And I'm definitely up for going. =]

It would certainly be interesting. And would be a useful experiment into the effect of alcohol on the ability to play well. =p

I find that Outcasts come out worst in tournaments, unless they are fixed list tournies (not how Malifaux was meant to be played). This is due to them having the least synergy between masters, so you're either buying lots of Hamelin models, or Viktoria models . . . etc. Whereas, with the other factions there is a lot of synergy between the different master's models. (Especially Guild).

In one off games, it's a lot more even. Especially as you usually know what you will be up against. And obvioulsy every master has bad match-ups, whether it be certain masters, minions, or objectives.

Ooh, I hadn't thought about that from Hoffman. Well that explains that it's worded the way it is then. So I just need some clarification as to what treat it as (without it actually being a pulse or an aura). To make it 100% clear you would have to change Stalwart to include one or the other, and change Hoffman so that he only excludes enemies from doing blasts etc.

(0) Stalwart: Friendly models within 2" of the Guardian gain Armour +2. This model suffers 1 Wd each time affected models suffer damage.

Now, I would read this as it being like an aura. So your models only have the effect while within 2". But as there is neither a Pulse or an Aura symbol, how are you supposed to play it? Because it creates 2 very different situations. Either you are activating the Guardian, and then sending off your models with Armour to go and kill stuff, or get objective. Or you are activating the Guardian, and then keeping models around that you want to keep alive to hold an objective, or block off a path etc.

So obviously, I just want to know what you all thought about this action, and how you think it should be played.

Making Marrionettes only able to activate within 8" of Collodi would be a bit much. Maybe causing them to be Slow. This would counter-act giving them Fast at the start of the activation. Or maybe causing them to only be able to do (0) and Walk actions. This way they can get back to Collodi and re-position for next turn. But not be able to push Collodi around, or beat face with Flurry and Melee Expert.

Also, I can see using 2 Guardians and Bette would be a good move as this would cause problems for Collodi hopping in (especially the way I do it). I usually try and place Collodi in such a way, that any marrionettes don't have to move to attack what they need to. This would mean that if Bette popped out of a dead Marrionette, it would be in base contact with Collodi. Add in Paralyzed, ++ flips (I think one of these is against undead though . . .) and Flurry. And you have yourself one neutralised Collodi. That leaves you with whatever master there is to sort out with your remaining models (Deoslation Engine?)

Edit: Just found the card (right infront of me . . . ) and you could give Collodi Slow instead of Paralyzed from Bette. Not exactly bad IMO

Well all I can say is that LCB and Collodi against Levi may as well be an auto-kill of Levi. Unless you flip the worst cards ever, and have a rubbish hand. And that is within 2 turns, without even trying.

I've played this through a few times with Magicpockets, Levi was dead on turn 2 in all 3. Now, without LCB I could see it being a bit harder, until you factor in Wicked Dolls (which I don't own).

Basic list

Dreamer/LCB

2x Daydreams

Collodi

4x Marrionettes

in a 35ss games, this leave you with 15ss to add in whatever models you need to either kill more, or take objectives. 3 Stitched, a pair of twins, 5 Night Terrors.

Unless Levi is taking a lot of defensive stuff (2 Guardians, Grave Spirit, Collodi) I can't see Levi surviving past turn 3 at best. And even then, you are spending the majority of your soulstones keeping 1 model alive, and the majority of your activations. So unless you are playing Claim Jump with Bodyguard and Frame For Murder (or something similiar) you're not going to be getting a good win (if you get a win at all).

I think what Magic was trying to say was . . . If there are more than 1 division's worth of teams, then they have to be divided one way or another. Whether that be location, rankings, random, or some other way of division would have to be decided at the time. But I get the feeling the overall aim of this event is to have fun, and gain bragging rights. So, essentially rankings would just be 1 of the many possible ways of splitting the teams into divisions.

As I only play Dreamer, I can only really comment on him (Magicpockets has a good knowledge of Z and Pandy)

Sadly there isn't a better way to start for $50 as you need those Daydreams. But for the $100 margin, Night Terrors, Teddy, and Twins would be my buys. Or the Collodi box set, but as I've only played a couple of games to get a grip of his rules, and not really pushed that to it's limits (8-0 victory on turn 2 in one game and 8-0 on turn 4 in the other) I would wait before really pushing that as a great match-up (like Z and Collodi)

As an aside . . . 35SS list from the Dreamer-Collodi mix:

Dreamer/Chompy

3 Daydreams

Collodi

4 Marionnettes

2 Stitched

That is easily within the $100 mark.

I'm loving the idea of PW Teddies as Daydreams! That is freaking genius!

And on your questions.

2- I have always played it that the pair share 3 actions and 1 (0) action. With Dreamer getting an extra (0) and Chompy getting (+1) Melee Expert. Only 6 actions a turn =p

It's ok, I will just bribe Jo with Jack Daniel's ; ]

WOO! You have no idea how much my face dropped when I realised my newly purchased, made, and painted models are sitting miles away.

Mark up 1 for UK Malifaux community being awesome. =D

Tim

I'm awesome . . . and as such have decided to leave some models and cards in Cambridge . . . cos I'm awesome . . .

This raises 2 important questions . . .

1- Can I use some proxy models . . . because I'm awesome? If not, can I borrow someones Night Terrors?

2- If either of these answers is yes, then can I also borrow a Night Terror card?

Feel sorry for a player down on his luck . . . cos he's awesome? =p

Tim

Or you will need to pick one master for the weekend and not change. You would still be allowed a hoffman/ramos mix up with this but would only be allowed to use them two all weekend

So with this you could use any mix? Like Collette/Pandora. . . Each picking minions from their faction (Arcanist/Neverborn) . . . But you would only be able to play Collette/Pandora for the whole tournament.

Correct me if I'm wrong. =p

Tim