magicpockets

Just to add on this, I've fairly late to the Somer party but have been running him as my main master for the past couple of months and (with thanks to the guys commenting on here and Spiku) finding him insanely powerful. Normally when I'm learning a crew a get beaten up quite badly by our local players (I'm lucky to have a couple of top ranked players in my club) whilst I learn, but so far I'm undefeated - and that's with just "trying stuff out". I really think Somer could actually be the most OP Master in the game, time will tell as I'll be entering my first tournament with him in 6 weeks time

One thing I've learnt though is don't be shy about standing on the shoulders of giants - there's a handful of people on here who've come up with some brilliant ideas and you should copy them mercilessly. Just be sure to give credit back to them when you do *wink*

I'm from Bolton originally and my parents still live there. May tie a visit to see them with a trip across to you guys - especially as playing all these southerners makes me soft

Von Schill companions a Specialist, shoots Bishop twice and kills him (I cheated down to make sure he died to Von Schill and not the specialist, netting me my Frame For Murder Scheme)

Great thread and don't want to derail it, but I didn't think you got points for F4M if a Henchman killed your model when they have a Master leading the crew - only the Master counts as a Leader model?

It was ruled when book 2 came out the the stitched player always flips and cheats

Think about it this way - most Triggers complete before the Duel ends (the exception being ones that start an entirely new Action). Those that go after Damaging would be completely out of Duel that Triggered them, if the Duel ended before applying damage and resolving all the effects.

This is right, Haunting Melody is not something that happens after the duel is resolved - it's a flip resulting from a trigger, which means it happens during the duel (i.e. the duel can't resolve until all triggers and damage are resolved)

---------- Post added at 09:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 AM ----------

A lot of people (myself included, when I'm not paying perfect attention) get this one wrong most of the time. Doesn't help that, if memory serves, the pullmyfinger article doesn't remind you specifically of this fact. I'll see if I can remember to edit this in tomorrow.

Easiest way I've found is have three piles of cards with Hamelin - his deck on the left, his discard on the right, and an "in play" pile in the center. That way both you and your opponent can clearly see which cards are for what purpose, and what exactly is on top of the discard pile and available for picking up

Playing your high mask means your opponant is unlikley to want to cheat...

I think you're playing that wrong, you can't pick up an "in play" card when your opponent cheats. So you cheat in a high :masks and, if your opponent cheats, you can pick from your discard pile or fate deck, but not the high :masks you've got in play.

Also, I'd be VERY surprised if you're regularly getting anywhere with more than 2 tots in the crew - you can't claim "I'm just lucky" as a viable basis for having that as a strategy. Plus, having more than two tots in a grow list is pointless as you can only have two matures, and youngs aren't that good - plus by the time you've taken 8ss for Hamelin, 7ss for Nix, 5ss for your Rat Catcher, 4ss for two rats and 6ss for your first 2x tots you've only got 5ss left to play with in a 35ss game...

also of note is that, due to the blight counters, the 2SS rats rarely do less than 2 points of damage to a model. This can (and frequently does due to multiple reactivations with rat catchers) mean the demise of multiple models in range of the hoard of rats in the course of a single turn. Hamelin's ability to make models insignificant and only able to target Hamelin when they are within 12" (which they cannot do if they are insignificant...) allows control of pieces that the rats might not be able to handle.

Yeah, I've kind of noticed that having played Hamelin a few times..... *wink*

no no... I should have pointed out that in the course of a game that is going to happen. As has been pointed out in this thread this particular list isn't as likely to be as viable as including some other models, but the point is that the terror tots are an example of that particular mechanic not just being a problem due to rats reactivating. You can grow tots to mature more easily than it seems despite there only being 6 cards in the deck that allow it. You can frequently grab that card and use it repeatedly is my point.

Have you actually tried this? It's hard to successfully make use of two terror tots in a Neph grow list, let alone a theoryfaux list with stacks of tots. And that's not forgetting high :masks are Hamelin's favourite cards

Does this terrible constantly activating mob happen if the user is less experience with Hamlin or does it require a veteran play to pull this off?

1. Activate rats

2. Rats attack rats and drop new rats

3. Opponent has an activation

4. Rinse and repeat until your opponent is done activating

No veteran status needed *wink*

I try really hard to have Leveticus die from his taking a wound in the end step as otherwise you open yourself up to the waifs being targeted and not being able to come back.

And not forgetting if he's dead nothing drops scrap counters when it dies

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?28303-The-Pockets-Levi-Diary-2012

Try this thread. Magic tends to get the best out of every crew he tries.

He's just too damn busy now a days to play or keep his threads up to date...

but still no need to obliterate your opponent unless the losing guy is a sore loser.

Or he's ukRocky..... *wink*

I think these uber serious players are compensating for something else in their real lives..

Nope, I'm just good at everything

On a serious note (no pun intended) I think there's a time and a place for being serious and a time to play for kicks. For example, UK Masters is a time to be hyper serious - I took my best lists and power-gamed all the way. Other "local" tournaments (assuming I'm not practicing with my main crew at the time) I like to take fun lists and still try and win stuff (i.e. LadyJ and 8 DMs having never played Guild before). Around that I'll always try to win (and sulk if I lose) but I play fairly laid back.

Plus, not matter what event I'm always happy to answer questions and point out abilities I'm planning to use later which I don't think my opponent is aware of (i.e. "just to check, are you planning on x? Did you know my model does y?") it's better to win on skill than because your opponent doesn't know something you do

I don't get why people take Malifaux so seriously, surely it's the taking part that counts?

It's a :+fate - Lucidicide knows that, it'll just be a typo *wink*

Take Hamelin. Without his avatar he can kill everything, with his avatar he can - oh, wait....

I'd say that until they are revealed they can earn VPs (etc) but once they are revealed as decoys they can't - that's just my best guess though mate

The 6AP will be across an activation (usually simultaneous across all three models - hence the "6") and won't affect new activations gained through reactivate

Okay, will update with detail tomorrow but just played a 35ss vs LadyJ with Turf War, exterminate living and Thwart (I took the schemes for a laugh. I had to kill his entire crew to win). I ran Somer, 1x skeeter, 2x piglets, rami, Raphael, 2x boys, 2x rats and won 8-0.

Somer is very very naughty...

In the main yes, but I still think murderous would be an exception due to how it works

It is better to use your idea to try and accomplish a scheme that also helps accomplish a strategy. Example; If you have turf war as a strategy you can select breakthrough as a scheme and score on both for getting into your opponents deployment zone.

Malifaux 101 - this is advice to listen to

Of course, of you wanted to get really complicated, in a brawl vs Pandora and Zoraida, Zoraida could hex off Terrifying, and Pandora would remove immunity to Morale duels.

And that folks, is how to prove your point. Touché indeed

As I have discovered from experience that line of thinking (that it has to be designed for something and therefor is unlikely to change so as to eliminate that origional reason) will get you in trouble.

If voracious rats is enough of a problem rules wise, no matter what it's origional purpose, it should change. Especially if it makes the Hamelin crew more in balance with the other crews.

[\QUOTE]

Whoa, hang on. Your question was never about "making changes" - it was a simple "how does it work". On that basis, working backwards to consider why the rule was introduced is a sensible way to understand its intention. It just seems that you (and VonC) are actually looking for a ruling which says you can summon off Voracious Rats and trying to find/skew an RAI explanation that fits, rather than accepting the logical way it should be played RAW.

I've tried to help you (both) by explaining reasons for a certain interpretation, don't shoot the messenger. If you disagree, explain why you disagree, don't resort to how you "want" the rule to work or hiding behind the myth that everything about Hamelin is broken (this part of hs abilities certainly is not)

Sorry mate, have to disagree. Plus, it's not as simple as "the active players effect would be applied first" - that only matters if both effects are legal. As it stands the "cannot" in Votacious Rats stops the "can" in the effects you reference, nullifying the abilities and meaning only a rat is summoned.

Let's look at it from another angle, if you're right - what is voracious rats designed to stop summoning?

^^ Voracious Rats is an ongoing effect so this wouldn't be the case.

For example -

1. Model is killed

2. Blessings/Violition tries to summon a model

3. Voracious Rats stops this from happening

4. Voracious Rats summons a new rat

Glad you got my humour, it does feel like the Rafkin sculpt started out as an alt McM

I'm surprised that we haven't seen him yet to be honest, he's quite popular so I'd have expected him sooner. Is it just him and Levi to go now?

Rafkin